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  1. #41  
    I bring that up only because the TREO 600 poll had quite-enthusastic posters who answered the poll, then later came back and said "well, now on my Nth TREO 600...".

    Even though this happened, and the poll(s) necessarily are presenting BETTER than reality (since no one will ever take BACK a "sent back a TREO" datapoint), it turns out that the TREO 600 poll in its horrendous reflection on the TREO 600 reliability was actually a GOOD measure of same!

    That's why I say the TREO 650 poll might end up being as accurate regardless how it turns out.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by dutchtrumpet
    I do and so do a lot of folks here.
    I tried the other day. Too much of a nuisance to maneuver around the little screen to a bulletin board when I almost always have a PC closeby. Sorry if the discussion board does not rank on my list of important sites to visit while sitting outside with a fine martini and a cigar

    Seriously, I find email about the most important wireless feature and browsing other web pages, searches, weather, news, etc.

    Eric
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by SeldomVisitor
    As of the time of this post this minimally-taken poll:

    -- http://discussion.treocentral.com/po...lts&pollid=765

    is showing a 50+% return rate.
    Sorry, but that kind of number doesn't mean much -- self-selected surveys are notoriously inaccurate. For example, here's a quote from E. Singer, "Ethical Aspects of Polling and Surveys," Survey Research Center, Institute for Social Research, University of Michigan <http://www.isr.umich.edu/src/smp/Electronic%20Copies/91.pdf>:

    "Among practices defined as 'unacceptable' are ... representing the results of a poll of self-selected or volunteer respondents ... as if they were the outcome of legitimate research ..."

    For a survey to be statistically valid, the odds of any member of the population being chosen should be the same for every member. But in a self-selected survey, those who volunteer to respond have a strong opinion (frequently negative) about the issue being discussed.
  4. #44  
    My letter 'p' crapped-out today -- it will register the key srtoke only after several presses (sometimes it takes 3-5, or more). Sprint is sending me a new replacement and a return kit.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by fgkay
    My letter 'p' crapped-out today -- it will register the key srtoke only after several presses (sometimes it takes 3-5, or more). Sprint is sending me a new replacement and a return kit.
    Be sure to followup with them tomorrow. I was told that at first but it got more complicated the next day.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    I would agree that TC polls are non "scientific", but they are still valid as a barometer....even with a margin of error of 10%, it indicates serious problems.

    We have just as many boosters and detractors on TC. although 99% of people here like the Treo, so I would put more weight to their criticisms.
    MikeC...I just have one question:

    DO You Even Have a Treo 650?!!!

    Sorry, but it seems the most vociferous and anti-palm comments are coming from those who don't even have the device yet!

    Secondly, no the poll here NOT valid as a barometer either! I don't know how anyone can seriously argue that any poll here on treocentral is reflective of anything except those who took part in the poll. It's not a representative sample, it's not scientific, it's not random, it's not statistically relavant anywhere or at anytime period!!
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



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  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    I would agree that TC polls are non "scientific", but they are still valid as a barometer....even with a margin of error of 10%, it indicates serious problems.

    We have just as many boosters and detractors on TC. although 99% of people here like the Treo, so I would put more weight to their criticisms.

    Are you familiar with the terms "selection bias" and "sample size"? Any poll posted at Treocentral is essentially useless in terms of predicting what the typical user's experience is. We don't even know what percent of the (anonymous) respondents are employees of Microsoft. Or Palm. Or even own Treos. What's to stop Bill Gates from signing up for 100 Treocentral identities and then blasting the Treo 650 to pieces? There are a lot of people with hidden (and not-so-hidden) agendas posting at all the PDA sites, including Treocentral.

    Don't believe everything you read.
  8. #48  
    eight t600's before that about ten treo 300's between me and my girlfriend. add an hour to 2 hours of waiting in the sprint store with my thumb up my u know what. iam insulted if you think I am bill gates. these boards are full of people with my story. btw if you notice my post has no caps cause I am so desperate to have a semi goodworking treo 6 that I will live with this defect. I don't want to waste more time at the sprint store and risk getting another t6 with wors problems. maybe its just the shipments going to s. cali that are bad... yea right. I honestly think it is higher than 50 percent defect rate for the t600 from my experience.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    MikeC...I just have one question:

    DO You Even Have a Treo 650?!!!

    Sorry, but it seems the most vociferous and anti-palm comments are coming from those who don't even have the device yet!

    Secondly, no the poll here NOT valid as a barometer either! I don't know how anyone can seriously argue that any poll here on treocentral is reflective of anything except those who took part in the poll. It's not a representative sample, it's not scientific, it's not random, it's not statistically relavant anywhere or at anytime period!!
    I know you are but what am I :-)

    Within my organization, there are over 200+ Treos. A majority are 600s
    I have 50 650"s on order. So please, enough with the "anti-Palm" bs.

    I believe, we have 3 650s in the organization now, although the number seems to change as orders are fulfilled. Of the three, one person seems pretty happy with it, one is awaiting return (ironically enough, a keyboard problem), and the third is being re-assinged; the memory problem was too much for the user (heavy calendar and contact and to-do person). She is back to the 600.

    So, SAND.

    No one ever said the poll was scientific, but it is a valid reference point; to ignore them completely is just as foolish as saying they are gospel truth.

    Now I will break in my Lionel Ritchie voice and sing, "Funk you, funk me, funk it together, naturally"
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Zen of Palm
    Are you familiar with the terms "selection bias" and "sample size"? Any poll posted at Treocentral is essentially useless in terms of predicting what the typical user's experience is. We don't even know what percent of the (anonymous) respondents are employees of Microsoft. Or Palm. Or even own Treos. What's to stop Bill Gates from signing up for 100 Treocentral identities and then blasting the Treo 650 to pieces? There are a lot of people with hidden (and not-so-hidden) agendas posting at all the PDA sites, including Treocentral.

    Don't believe everything you read.
    I am very familiar with sample size, selection bias, and probably more statistics and experimental design than most here.

    Please see my reply to funky - no one ever claimed they were scientific, but there is value in them; to ignore them is as foolish as accepting them as 100% true.

    Wait Zen, I thought we were part of the anti-P1 cabal....we can't be disagreeing...the conspiracy will fail! ;-)
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    I know you are but what am I :-)

    Within my organization, there are over 200+ Treos. A majority are 600s
    I have 50 650"s on order. So please, enough with the "anti-Palm" bs.

    I believe, we have 3 650s in the organization now, although the number seems to change as orders are fulfilled. Of the three, one person seems pretty happy with it, one is awaiting return (ironically enough, a keyboard problem), and the third is being re-assinged; the memory problem was too much for the user (heavy calendar and contact and to-do person). She is back to the 600.
    So basically, you don't have a Treo 650... thanks!

    No one ever said the poll was scientific, but it is a valid reference point; to ignore them completely is just as foolish as saying they are gospel truth.

    Now I will break in my Lionel Ritchie voice and sing, "Funk you, funk me, funk it together, naturally"
    It's not valid for anything except those who contribute to the thread. Again, the people who come to treocentral and post in the forums are not a representative sampling of the majority of Treo users in the market. You are correct in the sense that the typical users here will be more of a power users and hense any bugs/flaws will be seen and magnified here first, but that does not mean that those problems are as wide spread as appears here in the forums, nor do the problems that power users here confront mirror the type of issues a mainstream user of the Treo might experience. I'm certainly not saying the voice or musings of the forums here should be ignored (evidently PalmOne was accutely listening), but that the experiences here should be viewed in terms of the small microcosom of hard core users who predominate here and often are a forceful influence on how others purchase products...
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
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  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by DaleReeck
    SamCraig is right, no offense to TC, but any poll here is meaningless. They sold one million Treo 600's and several thousand 650's. Did several thousand people vote on 650 defects? To go around acting as if the tiny TC poll here is the final word is deceptive at best.



    Why do they send us TCers the defective ones?
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by mtgdoc
    Why do they send us TCers the defective ones?
    Lol!

    The TREO 600 poll turned out to be accurate for the "general population", too.

    How surprising.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    So basically, you don't have a Treo 650... thanks!



    It's not valid for anything except those who contribute to the thread. Again, the people who come to treocentral and post in the forums are not a representative sampling of the majority of Treo users in the market. You are correct in the sense that the typical users here will be more of a power users and hense any bugs/flaws will be seen and magnified here first, but that does not mean that those problems are as wide spread as appears here in the forums, nor do the problems that power users here confront mirror the type of issues a mainstream user of the Treo might experience. I'm certainly not saying the voice or musings of the forums here should be ignored (evidently PalmOne was accutely listening), but that the experiences here should be viewed in terms of the small microcosom of hard core users who predominate here and often are a forceful influence on how others purchase products...

    Well, new day, and new info.

    My 650 arrived yesterday, so I do have one. SAND

    Guess what? Bad pixels....back to Sprint.

    However, I did go through the paces with it (and will continue to do so until te return kit arrives). I don't have as many contacts as calendar, to-dos, and memos.

    I thought maybe people were overblowing the memory issue....they aren't. I had to whack a significant level of data to get things to fit. Totally annoying.

    Nice screen, keyboard, BT seems to work okay, but awful slow (relative); seems like IR speeds to me.

    So, again, SAND. Do you have a 650?
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    Well, new day, and new info.

    My 650 arrived yesterday, so I do have one. SAND

    Guess what? Bad pixels....back to Sprint.

    However, I did go through the paces with it (and will continue to do so until te return kit arrives). I don't have as many contacts as calendar, to-dos, and memos.

    I thought maybe people were overblowing the memory issue....they aren't. I had to whack a significant level of data to get things to fit. Totally annoying.

    Nice screen, keyboard, BT seems to work okay, but awful slow (relative); seems like IR speeds to me.

    So, again, SAND. Do you have a 650?
    Ahh... so you finally got one? Great! So now we can all read your complaints knowing that they're from actual first hand experience instead of just forum rants and heresay! Do I have a 650 yet, nope...still waiting on VC and never said I did. Btw, what the heck is Sands?
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



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  16. #56  
    No, actually you wouldn't be. Could be a kidney stone. See a good urologist.
    Quote Originally Posted by kirkeric
    God I am going to be pissed if my P stops working.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    Btw, what the heck is Sands?
    -- http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-quer...ands&Find=Find
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    Ahh... so you finally got one? Great! So now we can all read your complaints knowing that they're from actual first hand experience instead of just forum rants and heresay! Do I have a 650 yet, nope...still waiting on VC and never said I did. Btw, what the heck is Sands?

    I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.

    Think I will take that one to my TC grave
  19.    #59  
    Well my replacement 650 arrived from Sprint. Still waiting for the RMA kit (so right now I am being charged for the replacement). The p key however is still lously, and does not have the same tactile feel as ALL the other keys. I know it is just a matter of time before it goes, based on how it feels.
  20. #60  
    Indeed, I also have a lousy P key. it's particularly annoying because it's the first letter of my name! Is it worth going back to the sprint store to swap out? I'm not sure yet, although I would want to get a new one, rather than a refurb, so sooner rather than later probably would be best.

    However, all that being said, I have a few words about this "poll"
    This poll
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/po...lts&pollid=765
    is TERRIBLE. It DOES NOT SHOW A 50% RETURN RATE. Why?

    Well folks, a little line was left out of the poll, and that is: Zero Returns! Why is this important? Well because all this poll shows is 17 people have returned their Treo, and of the 17 5 people have returned it more than once. thats it.

    People trying to use this to justify a high return rate are just flat out wrong.
    Now, all that being said, with any new device that has a rabid fan base (I'm a powerbook owner, so the stuff i see on this board is mild compared to Mac forums), people are going to hold their expensive investments to a very, very high standard, and this is what we see here. Do you think that people with their $99 Axims sit around all day talking about stuck "p" keys? No, they don't, but that is the nature of the beast with being a gadget geek :-)
    I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is people launching out of the gate with erroneous stats.

    Now, about that 'p' key. It's driving me nuts as well, so just throw me in with the complainers :-D










    Quote Originally Posted by mervynle
    Well my replacement 650 arrived from Sprint. Still waiting for the RMA kit (so right now I am being charged for the replacement). The p key however is still lously, and does not have the same tactile feel as ALL the other keys. I know it is just a matter of time before it goes, based on how it feels.
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