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  1. #721  
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmite
    Euroclie, I was reading that earlier but didn't get that far before being sidetracked by work... Ever heard of a FLM 6?
    Ah! I knew you'd start by reading that. Thought I'd mention it anyway...

    Otherwise, about FLM 6, by chance my work (almost) doesn't involve computers, so I never had to deal directly with such a beast (and if my googling is correct, then it would be way beyond my limited knowledge anyway!)

    May the force be with you in your fight against the allmighty FLM 6!
  2. spotter's Avatar
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    #722  
    Quote Originally Posted by euroclie
    shadowmite, I suppose that you already did that (yeah, tonight's the night for stating the obvious, but then, what else can I do to try feeling a bit useful ), but if not, you might want to have a look at the "Palm OS companion2.pdf" from the PalmSource doc, the chapter 7 (Network) deals about netlib and internet libraries. Here's a brief quote:

    and later:


    I'm starting to read that chapter, maybe there's useful stuff in there...
    I don't think that's the right place to dig in.

    I think the place to dig in is

    http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/do...SConcepts.html

    http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/do...dx.html#996265

    http://www.palmos.com/dev/support/do...r.html#1032894
  3. #723  
    Shadowmite, I don't know if this is useful to you or not, but just in case, have a look at this message in the 1st source thread which link I included earlier. The thread was about the CF slot driver hack that took place a couple of months ago (well, one year and a half ago, time flies so fast!), and gives some info about amdc resources.
  4. #724  
    So after reading for a bit, I think the best possible attempt is to patch the syslibfind to a syslibinstall, but the first parameter changes from:

    Pointer to the name of a loaded library.

    to:

    Pointer to the library being installed.

    So do we need the entry point? A file pointer? Maybe we write a third party program just to install and remove the fake net libraries without a restart of the OS?
  5. #725  
    Quote Originally Posted by thetoad
    I don't think that's the right place to dig in.
    Thanks for the pointer, thetoad. I hope we'll not have to dig that deep! At the moment, it seems that the SDIO part is more or less working (otherwise the light wouldn't even blink or illuminate on the card, and the card wouldn't be seen (briefly) by WiFi routers), so it seems that our current problem is more in the network libraries field...

    If that's not the case, then I fear that hacking on the hardware level would be much, much more difficult, without the drivers sources and appropriate bench hardware...

    That being said, if you want to investigate the SDIO part, you're hired!
  6. #726  
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmite
    So after reading for a bit, I think the best possible attempt is to patch the syslibfind to a syslibinstall
    I just can't seem to fully grasp the difference between SysLibInstall and SysLibLoad. I mean, I think we need to call SysLibLoad at some point, because a) it returns a library reference number that we could use later with SysLibFind, and b) SysLibInstall needs a pointer to the library that gets installed (how to we get that?), whereas SysLibLoad only needs a CreatorID and type... also c) SysLibFind description says :"Third-party libraries must be loaded before this call can succeed (use SysLibLoad())."

    Maybe we write a third party program just to install and remove the fake net libraries without a restart of the OS?
    That could do the trick... Using SysLibLoad firts, and SysLibRemove upon exit. Any skilled programer willing to try that?
  7. #727  
    I'm going to see what happens if I NOP out the entire net.lib load routine...

    Edit: Scrap that idea... the program would then have a null pointer to the library and it wouldn't work... The only way to do this is to load a third party library (the fake lib) via a third party program before running the wifi program... Hmm... pilotmain eh?
    Last edited by shadowmite; 12/07/2004 at 04:57 PM.
  8. spotter's Avatar
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    #728  
    so I've been reading the SDIO Dev Guide

    ion page 20 it says

    Debbugging your SDIO Card

    The SDIO slot driver includes the SDIODebugOptions function which, on a debug version of the SDIO slot driver, enables and disables command tracing. Command tracing is very useful for debugging the identifcation, initalization and communications functions of an SDIO card. When tracing is enabled, all trace information is dumped in ASCII format to the handheld's USB or serial port.

    however, all I can find are things for PalmOS 4, dont know if they'd work on 5.
  9. #729  
    I've read all the posts and you guys definitely are guys worth meeting some day. Being a really lousy programer I can somewhat follow the thread, and you maked me laugh more than a handful. I just want to cheer you up for doing this and having the guts to play with this PalmOne black-box. I have a Treo 600 so maybe I can give it a useless Wi-Fi card for Christmas, jus for the fun of joining this fray. Keep up the excelent work and the real fun. When I do the final take over on that Palm doomed company you all are hired to rebuid that death Fenix.

    Sorry on the off-topic post but I simply couldn't resist anymore.
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    #730  
    i would like to ask real quick. in your opinions...from what you guys have managed to do so far going in blind, is it safe to say had u been privied to see all the driver source and hardware benchmarks, that you could get this working and in turn, is palm purposefully keeping the Treo 650 without wifi.

    keep up the great work guys and more power to you!
  11. #731  
    Quote Originally Posted by wahili
    i would like to ask real quick. in your opinions...from what you guys have managed to do so far going in blind, is it safe to say had u been privied to see all the driver source and hardware benchmarks, that you could get this working and in turn, is palm purposefully keeping the Treo 650 without wifi.

    keep up the great work guys and more power to you!
    If we had the source at our disposal that was used to make the p1 driver, there would be a 95% chance we could have had this done within the first 3 days... The 5% being the possibility that a low power issue could still bite us when we try to transmit at full intensity. That's not to say palm could have done this quickly if they kept it to themselves though. The way to get things done fast is to open source it. Because this is closed source, it's quite possible palm is working on a 650 release, but won't have it until they are happy with the flawlessness of it.

    On the other hand, we'd release it buggy and allow any and all coders to contribute fixes as it went.
  12. #732  
    Quote Originally Posted by wahili
    i would like to ask real quick. in your opinions...from what you guys have managed to do so far going in blind, is it safe to say had u been privied to see all the driver source and hardware benchmarks, that you could get this working and in turn, is palm purposefully keeping the Treo 650 without wifi.
    I'll let shadowmite answer to that one, he's the knowledgeable one!

    As for me, I think it's a blind attempt, as you wrote. I mean, there wasn't much to lose trying that, but I'd nonetheless be surprised if it worked "as is" on the 650...

    I don't think that P1 is keeping purposefully the Treo 650 without WiFi, I think that they are probably working to make that completely transparent to the user. If we were to succeed hacking the T5 drivers to make them run on the 650, I expect the system to suffer some serious limitations (probably turn off phone & bluetooth while using WiFi or something like that, with maybe resets if you forget to switch off one of the two), which P1 would want to completely remove before releasing a driver.

    And then, there's the memory problem on the 650 (23 MB only, and stuff eating more RAM than on previous devices because of the NVFS), so having to remove your memory SD to put the WiFi SD instead, well, might not be very practical at best, so maybe that's another reason why P1 isn't in a hurry to release a WiFi driver for the 650.

    If I was making the decisions at P1, I'd probably tell my developers to stop wasting time on WiFi drivers for the 650, and start working on the Treo 700 with builtin WiFi + Bluetooth (+ GPRS or CDMA, or course) and a big memory!
  13. #733  
    Shadow:

    If you don't have your own P1wifi card, I have one. Let me know and I'll Fed Ex it. PM me with your details. You have earned it!
  14. wahili's Avatar
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    #734  
    Quote Originally Posted by euroclie
    If I was making the decisions at P1, I'd probably tell my developers to stop wasting time on WiFi drivers for the 650, and start working on the Treo 700 with builtin WiFi + Bluetooth (+ GPRS or CDMA, or course) and a big memory!
    I'll bet the chances are pretty high they have already told their developers exactly that! luckily they will upgrade their camera to a .6 megapixel for the treo 700!

    Thanks for the answers guys. i like my conspiracy theories myself! seriously though with wimax creepin up and voip for the mobile devices a hop skip and a jump away, im sure people like sprint have some clout with p1 in that they maybe shouldnt exactly RUSH the wifi ^_^

    GOOD LUCK ON THE HACK GUYS! I AWAIT IT! i guarantee you do that hack and a working vonage palm app wont be too far behind!
  15. #735  
    Hi guys, I have a tungsten E and the Sandisk Wifi SD card is not supported on it, but low and behold I install the drivers and in the temporary files from the installer I see the driver for the tungsten e there, but it isn't installed. I installed it and it's working great on my E. The WAP picker is strange in that i have to manually enter in most of the IP/DNS info, but it works great...AND I know the tungsten e doesn't have a great battery. Sandisk says that they didn't officially release this driver b/c the power requirements of the card are beyond the ratings for the E. 5 months of everyday wifi use and still no problems. Unofficially they say they have it running fine on the E too. I thought I'd post the drivers for everyone to pick around at and see if there are any clues. Thanks, James
    oops, I tried to post it, but it was too big...here's the link
    http://www.sandisk.com/tech/docs/palm-driver-v3.zip
  16.    #736  
    Quote Originally Posted by wahili
    seriously though with wimax creepin up and voip for the mobile devices a hop skip and a jump away, im sure people like sprint have some clout with p1 in that they maybe shouldnt exactly RUSH the wifi ^_^
    I think we should stop with the Sprint (or any other carrier, but especially Sprint) not wanting wifi. Sprint has invested in wifi spots that they could upsell access to like T-mobile does. Sprint also only offers an unlimited data that everyone would still get (for access on the road and such), so wifi only serves to greatly reduce the potential traffic on their network (which is a very good thing for Sprint). So let's recap, same or more money, less traffic on the network means better connections for all. We should be surprised that Sprint isn't chipping in with advice on how to get these wifi drivers going. Again, this is off-topic though, and if someone wants to start a thread on this (though there are about 200), we can continue there.
  17. #737  
    Hey guys; new here; this is all very exciting.

    One question
    Once Wi-fi becomes a reality; and there's no doubt in my mind that it will. I wish there was an extra slot for my 1gb sd card; after all we have to swap one out for the other? That kind of bites!
  18. #738  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    I think we should stop with the Sprint (or any other carrier, but especially Sprint) not wanting wifi. Sprint has invested in wifi spots that they could upsell access to like T-mobile does. Sprint also only offers an unlimited data that everyone would still get (for access on the road and such), so wifi only serves to greatly reduce the potential traffic on their network (which is a very good thing for Sprint). So let's recap, same or more money, less traffic on the network means better connections for all. We should be surprised that Sprint isn't chipping in with advice on how to get these wifi drivers going. Again, this is off-topic though, and if someone wants to start a thread on this (though there are about 200), we can continue there.
    I would agree with you, it makes perfect business sense for Sprint to support a WiFi device. But I still can't get past the fact that the guys here, in a few weeks, got as far as they did with no source code or other help. Unless there is something really major they are missing here, it seems that the P1 guys could have gotten a WiFi driver for the 650 working very quickly, yet they have not despite the demand for it.

    And not just the Treo 650, but other Palms. P1 has come very late to the WiFi party and it makes me want to wonder why. I've heard about how PocketPC was designed from the base up to support WiFi whereas Palm was not and that's why they are taking so long. But they have done it, so it is obviously possible. The Tungsten C had WiFi for a year+ now as has the Sony Clie lines. So, the excuses for not providing more WiFi support for new Palm devices is starting to wear thin.
  19. #739  
    i haven't read every comment on this thread, but there are a lot of comments to the effect that P1 could have made a wireless driver and they didn't.. yada yada.. they said in the roadshow (at least the dc one) that it would be easy for them to make a wireless driver, that wasn't the issue.. the issue was the fact that when you throw one antenna/transmitter (802.11) so close to another (cell) you run into some issues.. they didn't elaborate much on what issues they run into but reguardless of result of P1's actions, I think their INTENTION is to provide a quality product. As we've all seen this has been a less than perfect goal for P1.

    so I don't think they are releasing wifi drivers because they don't feel they would work in a way that would be expected of a P1's products.
  20. #740  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    I think we should stop with the Sprint (or any other carrier, but especially Sprint) not wanting wifi. Sprint has invested in wifi spots that they could upsell access to like T-mobile does. Sprint also only offers an unlimited data that everyone would still get (for access on the road and such), so wifi only serves to greatly reduce the potential traffic on their network (which is a very good thing for Sprint). So let's recap, same or more money, less traffic on the network means better connections for all. We should be surprised that Sprint isn't chipping in with advice on how to get these wifi drivers going. Again, this is off-topic though, and if someone wants to start a thread on this (though there are about 200), we can continue there.

    Splint has always been resistant -- actively hostile -- to anything that enables its customers to do almost anything independent of its revenue control.

    more than any other carrier Splint has made it a point to cripple bluetooth and DUN -- and even the version of the PDA2K it sells (the 6601) has its native WIFI amputated (though a wifi SD is still doable.)

    All the carriers (even T-mobile) fear the advent of skype and the potential for universal free wifi or wimax in urban areas (like Phila. and Taipei). Billions have been spent to buy spectrum, and control customers -- and Skype threatens all that.

    At the roadshow, P1 in casual conversations readily acknowledged that Splint was their most influential and important customer. Splint's willingness to pre-commit to purchasing a large number of Treos greatly helps P1 (and earlier Handspring) in financing their development and production.

    Who doubts that if Splint had specified wifi in the 650 that it would have had it ?

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