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  1. #681  
    FWIW, I personally believe that these drivers *were* coded by SanDisk. palmOne's drivers came out just a few days before Tapwave released theirs. Coincidence? I'm not so sure that there's anything different about them other than the "nice" little tweak that p1 has in theirs that prevents them from working on anything but their own devices.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  2.    #682  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    My theory is that it has to do with palmOne hard-coding network OS calls such that it assumes that it always needs to access the internet over the cell phone carrier's network (understandably). If so, I don't see this as a quick-fix for someone trying to hack this from the outside.
    This should be easy to test and probably already has been. I recall a thread on here about Reverse DUN working. If that's the case (and I haven't followed the thread), then it's got to have the ability to connect over things other than the carrier's network (in that case, bluetooth).
  3. #683  
    As GFunkMagic once said: "Just posting to register my Shock and Awe!"

    Nice hack in progress! Here's to hoping there's a successful conclusion! You may well be up against ideosyncracies in the Treo's network drivers at this point though....

    Maybe I'll trade in my T3 for a 650......
  4. worthb's Avatar
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    #684  
    I believe that the carriers, like Sprint, feel very threatened by wifi, and wimax just around the corner. When a couple of wimax ap's can cover a major metro. (or rural) area, and if smartphones can do voip, there are a lot of people that could use voip exclusively and not need a cell carrier. How many of you have wifi at home and at work, and your commute is the missing link? wimax covers the commute.

    So, i think Sprint and the others are stalling wifi (and forcing p1 to stall as well) until THEY come out with ev-do and other 3g/4g services that compare speedwise with wifi, thinking that if we have an always on ev-do connection we won't care about wifi as much and they won't be as threatened.

    Now, the fact that sprint has advertised wifi capability on the t600 box and on the t650 website adds another dimension to the whole issue
  5. #685  
    Not to get too far off-topic, but as for VOIP...A long while back someone came out with a VOIP app for the Tungsten C. I seem to recall asking at the time whether or not it was smart enough to wake up the device when a call came in and the answer was 'no.' Not sure if that's changed since then, but if the Palm OS still can't handle waking up on an incoming VOIP call, I'd say that Sprint doesn't have to worry about the added competition just yet.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  6. #686  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    Nevertheless, shadowmite, if you have some freaky OS library files that you want me to play with in conjunction with either your hacked p1 drivers or the Tapwave drivers, let me know. I'm thinking that I may end up returning my 650 to palmOne for various reasons, so I don't mind messing around with it before then. Perhaps you could return the favor by hacking at the T5 web browser to get it working on the Zodiac. The free browser that comes with the Zodiac (based on the PalmSource Web Browser) leaves a lot to be desired. You send files for me to try (and directions) to scott AT tapland.com
    Well, let's start with the easy one... I already have tried to rip the new blazer onto the 600... It's about the same as the PM Net File we have been discussing, it's primary problem is the fact that is has a 200k resource which palmos is unhappy about. Thus without writing a custom program to re-contruct it on the device in ram it's not really gonna happen.

    As for mixing the p1 driver libraries with zodiac ones, it was a long shot to begin with. I tried it last night as a "final" attempt at this. Nothing happened any differently. I did get the card powered up, light flashing, but the zodiac driver still does nothing. They appear to have hard coded the slot2 sdio calls to EVERYTHING! Thus it was no help...

    Guys, I hate to say it. But I think this effort is over. There isn't anything left to try... Unless someone wants to completely trace out the ARM code libraries and write a wrapper for us, or someone can write some new code to interface with the sdio card, we're done...

    Based on how the zodiac drivers are written, they would also be a good condidate to be re-written for the 650. Perhaps with some nicely worded letters of recommendation to SanDisk we could get something done.

    Euroclie, feel free to check the checksums if you like, I've actually un-hacked all the files. The problem with them being unstable was us having not built them right. The installer made several changes to them while it was running. I finally just traced threw the whole thing to get the files built properly.

    Sorry everyone, I just don't have the time or interest to be willing to write a complete interface to the wifi card... Hopefully in time we can re-visit this possible hack. (Once a driver is written for a device that includes a cell phone, it might be possible. For that matter, if we could "juggle" the libraries while the device is on, without re-starting it this might also be a solution.)
    Last edited by shadowmite; 12/07/2004 at 10:02 AM.
  7. #687  
    I have been doing some more research on available wi-fi drivers for Palm OS based handhelds. My latest investigation involved the Palm Zire 71 which is a supported device for the San Disk Wi-Fi Card. The specs for the Zire 71 seem to be even closer to the Treo 600 than the Tapwave. Take a look:
    Treo 600_______________Palm Zire 71
    144 MHz Processor_______144 MHz Processor
    Palm OS 5.2.1H__________Palm OS 5.2.1
    1800 mAh Lithium Polymer_lithium polymer 900mAh battery
    32 Mb RAM_____________16Mb RAM
    SDIO/SD/MMC slot ______SDIO/SD/MMC slot

    If the Zire 71 can support wi-fi, with what looks to me like less power supply, then I think the Treo 600 and 650 also should. An important note to make is that the San Disk Wi-Fi specifically says "low power" right on the front. Maybe this card is the way to go rather than the P1 card. I looked on San Disks website and you can only download drivers for the PPC 2002/2003 for the wi-fi card, I think that the drivers for the Zire 71 may have been introduced in the attached wi-fi driver update issued by P1. I do not have the ability to pick these apart myself as I have almost zero programming knowledge, but I think it may be worth while. San Disk may have found the solution to a low power SDIO slot before palm. If any one has the ability, I think these should be looked at.
    Attached Files Attached Files
  8. #688  
    Shadowmite, we're all grateful for your efforts and those of your cohorts. This has been an exciting ride, and we all owe you a huge thank you.
  9. #689  
    The SanDisk card I got is v2.1 which mentions Zire 71 compatibility on the box. So this is the low-power card. I haven't tried the drivers that are on the CD-ROM to see if they're any different, but I can tell you that I tried the Novarra Zire 71 browser that came on the disc and it complained about me not using the right device at startup. So, knowing p1's tricks, I would expect that the driver is similarly hard-coded to make sure you're using it on a Zire 71.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  10. #690  
    Hey, I just wanted to add my thanks to EVERYONE (especially Shadow, and Clie) who tried to get this to work. Again, I still believe the pledges should be gathered and distributed to those working on this project. They certainly deserve the small amount that has been pledged, even if it did not work. I'm still in for my amount if that is ever collected. Thanks again....this was exciting! It almost made me want to learn coding/hacking (almost).
    Dana A. Max, Psy.D.
    Licensed Psychologist
    Palm III, Palm IIIc, Palm m515, Treo 650, Centro
  11. #691  
    ScottR, is it the same file as posted above? Maybe I'll take a quick look... Also, I thought of one other thing... It could be the VPN Shim is taking over the ip connections we are starting... Could someone re-try beta1 but don't install ANY of the VPN files!?
  12. #692  
    Hello Treo PPL... this is my first post and I'm a newer 600 user.
    What a great thread, Ive watched it from the beginning.
    I'll also try not to muddy the waters too much...
    Shadow.. have you read the posts at Tapland by a member who worked on their drivers?
    http://www.tapland.com/forums/viewto...r=asc&start=10

    Maybe this guy "Installer" could give you some info on how to beat this?
  13. #693  
    Quote Originally Posted by morrisonmuscle
    I have been doing some more research on available wi-fi drivers for Palm OS based handhelds.
    If the Zire 71 can support wi-fi, with what looks to me like less power supply, then I think the Treo 600 and 650 also should. An important note to make is that the San Disk Wi-Fi specifically says "low power" right on the front. Maybe this card is the way to go rather than the P1 card. I looked on San Disks website and you can only download drivers for the PPC 2002/2003 for the wi-fi card, I think that the drivers for the Zire 71 may have been introduced in the attached wi-fi driver update issued by P1. I do not have the ability to pick these apart myself as I have almost zero programming knowledge, but I think it may be worth while. San Disk may have found the solution to a low power SDIO slot before palm. If any one has the ability, I think these should be looked at.
    Well, I don't have an SD card, but I installed the file on my Treo 600, and it appears to have done no harm. I've done a soft reset, and my internet apps all appear to fun OK. I cannot, however, find any related files resulting from the install, using FileZ.
    Shneor
    Pre 3 on T-Mobile, 32gb Touchpad
  14. #694  
    Shadowmite, I don't have any VPN stuff installed. I've only tried the Tapwave drivers, though. If you want to re-link to whatever you want me to install with specific directions, I'll give it a shot. I'd rather not trudge through 35 pages to find the right stuff.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  15. #695  
    I think it is clear that the quote attributed to Greg Shirai is at the heart of this problem (http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...reg#post483823). His item about juggling the radios being non-trivial is what has my interest peaked, as Shadow's issue with the psuedo network files being the major stumbling block. The configuration does not "know" which path to take. The drivers are actually prepared to drive the card, it just cannot route through the communications plumbing of the 650. I'm betting you may even see the card radiate as the driver does it's resets, and then nothing as it does not have the proper configs for plumbing.
    Doug
  16. #696  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    Not to get too far off-topic, but as for VOIP...A long while back someone came out with a VOIP app for the Tungsten C. I seem to recall asking at the time whether or not it was smart enough to wake up the device when a call came in and the answer was 'no.' Not sure if that's changed since then, but if the Palm OS still can't handle waking up on an incoming VOIP call, I'd say that Sprint doesn't have to worry about the added competition just yet.

    Scott
    It's still good for outgoing calls even in this case.
  17. #697  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    Shadowmite, I don't have any VPN stuff installed. I've only tried the Tapwave drivers, though. If you want to re-link to whatever you want me to install with specific directions, I'll give it a shot. I'd rather not trudge through 35 pages to find the right stuff.

    Scott
    No problem... Once again, this is the beta1 file. This is the closest we have come. No other releases changed from the results this will give you. What I suggest it just to install all files in this, but leave out any with Vppi or VPN in them... This may or may not help, it's a shot in the dark.
    Attached Files Attached Files
  18. spotter's Avatar
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    #698  
    Quote Originally Posted by fmertz
    I think it is clear that the quote attributed to Greg Shirai is at the heart of this problem (http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...reg#post483823). His item about juggling the radios being non-trivial is what has my interest peaked, as Shadow's issue with the psuedo network files being the major stumbling block. The configuration does not "know" which path to take. The drivers are actually prepared to drive the card, it just cannot route through the communications plumbing of the 650. I'm betting you may even see the card radiate as the driver does it's resets, and then nothing as it does not have the proper configs for plumbing.
    the only problem could be routing. i.e. you have multiple IP addresses and how do you make sure the route table is setup appropriatly. However, I don't think that's the problem as people have been having success w/ the "REVERSE DUN".
  19. #699  
    Quote Originally Posted by thetoad
    the only problem could be routing. i.e. you have multiple IP addresses and how do you make sure the route table is setup appropriatly. However, I don't think that's the problem as people have been having success w/ the "REVERSE DUN".
    Exactly, it's apparent from adamp's network sniffing logs that the card is working and sending information properly. But some packets just seems to disappear. We need the libraries to work properly, but it's just a complex coding task. The only hope is if it's something stupid that's intercepting packets that we can eliminate...

    If you think that installer guy from the other forum can help, tell him to register over here with a different name etc...
  20. #700  
    Quote Originally Posted by dmax
    Hey, I just wanted to add my thanks to EVERYONE (especially Shadow, and Clie) who tried to get this to work. Again, I still believe the pledges should be gathered and distributed to those working on this project. They certainly deserve the small amount that has been pledged, even if it did not work. I'm still in for my amount if that is ever collected. Thanks again....this was exciting! It almost made me want to learn coding/hacking (almost).
    What dmax said. Where do I send the money? I know they didn't pursue this project "to make the big bucks" but Shadow, Euroclie, et al deserve our thanks and some monetary compensation for their time and effort.

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