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  1.    #1  
    IMHO -

    If you want to be among the first to have a complex electronic communications system (Treo 650), than you should expect certain problems. It has always been that way with computers and software.

    If you want a trouble-free system, WAIT!

    Flame Away!!
  2. #2  
    but how's P1's history of implementing improvements through trial and error?!
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tazzo
    IMHO -

    If you want to be among the first to have a complex electronic communications system (Treo 650), than you should expect certain problems. It has always been that way with computers and software.

    If you want a trouble-free system, WAIT!

    Flame Away!!
    True in general but, however:

    The 650 was not marketed as a brand new cutting edge device. It was supposed to be, per palms own interviews, "a better 600." So people have the right to expect that it does not have the same bugs as a really brand new techno-device would.

    By the same token, as to the memory issues. The 650 was advertised as having the same memory as the 600. It was certainly reasonable for people to expect that if they had 10meg free on the 600 after contacts and apps that you would have about that on the 650. Now we know that the 650 has effectivly 1/3 less memory than the 600. Thats not something that any 650 "first adopter" should have to anticipate.

    There is a difference between 1)Bugs that are unexpected and excusable for a new device 2) Bugs that should have been caught under any kind of testing program and 3) Design flaws like the memory problem.

    Many of the "bugs" so far reported are issues with particular apps or a particular use and you can't instantlyfault P1 for not knowing those would pop up. Most of those will be worked out one way or another.

    Other things, however, like the reset issue, the incorrect instructions in the manual, the poor mic/sound quality issue. Those are things that should be caught by any responsible testing program. How it was not is beyond me. FOr goodness sake, give a couple of hundred of these things to REAL users, not some Sprint VP who will play with the camera and then use it as a paperweight. The fact that NO 600 user on this board has reported being surveyed before the 650s release, while a lot of people got the after-the-fact email survey shows that P1s representations as to how they surveyed and tested this thing need to be taken with a big grain of salt.

    So, sure. early-adopters of new cutting edge technology run the risk of problems, but for a lot of the issues here, that is not what is going on.
  4. #4  
    The 650 was also touted as the most-tested out of PalmOne, right?
  5.    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by midmofan
    True in general but, however:

    The 650 was not marketed as a brand new cutting edge device. It was supposed to be, per palms own interviews, "a better 600." So people have the right to expect that it does not have the same bugs as a really brand new techno-device would.

    By the same token, as to the memory issues. The 650 was advertised as having the same memory as the 600. It was certainly reasonable for people to expect that if they had 10meg free on the 600 after contacts and apps that you would have about that on the 650. Now we know that the 650 has effectivly 1/3 less memory than the 600. Thats not something that any 650 "first adopter" should have to anticipate.

    There is a difference between 1)Bugs that are unexpected and excusable for a new device 2) Bugs that should have been caught under any kind of testing program and 3) Design flaws like the memory problem.

    Many of the "bugs" so far reported are issues with particular apps or a particular use and you can't instantlyfault P1 for not knowing those would pop up. Most of those will be worked out one way or another.

    Other things, however, like the reset issue, the incorrect instructions in the manual, the poor mic/sound quality issue. Those are things that should be caught by any responsible testing program. How it was not is beyond me. FOr goodness sake, give a couple of hundred of these things to REAL users, not some Sprint VP who will play with the camera and then use it as a paperweight. The fact that NO 600 user on this board has reported being surveyed before the 650s release, while a lot of people got the after-the-fact email survey shows that P1s representations as to how they surveyed and tested this thing need to be taken with a big grain of salt.

    So, sure. early-adopters of new cutting edge technology run the risk of problems, but for a lot of the issues here, that is not what is going on.
    Your points are valid.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by midmofan
    True in general but, however:

    The 650 was not marketed as a brand new cutting edge device. It was supposed to be, per palms own interviews, "a better 600." So people have the right to expect that it does not have the same bugs as a really brand new techno-device would.

    By the same token, as to the memory issues. The 650 was advertised as having the same memory as the 600. It was certainly reasonable for people to expect that if they had 10meg free on the 600 after contacts and apps that you would have about that on the 650. Now we know that the 650 has effectivly 1/3 less memory than the 600. Thats not something that any 650 "first adopter" should have to anticipate.

    There is a difference between 1)Bugs that are unexpected and excusable for a new device 2) Bugs that should have been caught under any kind of testing program and 3) Design flaws like the memory problem.

    Many of the "bugs" so far reported are issues with particular apps or a particular use and you can't instantlyfault P1 for not knowing those would pop up. Most of those will be worked out one way or another.

    Other things, however, like the reset issue, the incorrect instructions in the manual, the poor mic/sound quality issue. Those are things that should be caught by any responsible testing program. How it was not is beyond me. FOr goodness sake, give a couple of hundred of these things to REAL users, not some Sprint VP who will play with the camera and then use it as a paperweight. The fact that NO 600 user on this board has reported being surveyed before the 650s release, while a lot of people got the after-the-fact email survey shows that P1s representations as to how they surveyed and tested this thing need to be taken with a big grain of salt.

    So, sure. early-adopters of new cutting edge technology run the risk of problems, but for a lot of the issues here, that is not what is going on.


    If you cut Palm too much slack, they'll hang themselves with it™.
  7. #7  
    This isn't a space shuttle, it's a 2.0 version of the Treo 600.

    I'd love to hear p1 make an official announcement stating that bugs should be expected.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by SeldomVisitor
    The 650 was also touted as the most-tested out of PalmOne, right?
    The most tested, or the most big ridden? ;-)

    Doesn't seem like the QA dept did a very thorough job.

    I wonder why P1 didn't come to TC and have us beta test it. I"m sure we would've found all these bugs, and more, with just a couple weeks use.
    Cheap and fast.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by SeldomVisitor
    The 650 was also touted as the most-tested out of PalmOne, right?
    Other than the memory issue (not a bug), and some third-party apps not working, I haven't had any problems on the 650. I've had two unintentional resets in five days, and both were caused by apps not working.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by skfny
    Other than the memory issue (not a bug), and some third-party apps not working, I haven't had any problems on the 650. I've had two unintentional resets in five days, and both were caused by apps not working.
    But that's according to your definition of "problems". For me, having long delays when making a phone call or picking one up, is a huge problem. Having the phone lag behind my commands in all the built-in apps is a maddening problem. Not being able to sort the contact list the way I used it in the previous version is a problem. Making bad interface/usability decisions that don't bring any advantages over the previous excellent implementation is a problem.

    This doesn't mean other people can't be totally happy with the 650, but those of us who were truly expecting "a better 600" are bumping our heads against a lot of walls. With the 600 we had a superb device with some technological shortcomings (screen, camera, bt, etc.). With the 650 we have a technological marvel full of stupid design blunders. In my mind, there is no excuse for this.

    I am just hoping every day that PalmOne can fix this by optimizing their apps so they're responsive, and by letting us have some control over how our devices function.
  11. #11  
    I'm okay with some of the problems that involve new functionality, but VersaMail has had so many more issues than the Handspring Mail application that came on the Treo 600. I think you should be able to expect the advanced version to be better than the previous one. I think that's about all everyone expects. I'm willing to deal with bluetooth bugs or something of that nature because it's new.

    Regressions shouldn't be expected.
  12. #12  
    IF the T650 would have come with Cobalt, would have had wifi (why? it's cell phone =/) would have come with an amazing new processor, oled screen, wonderful battery life...

    Then perhaps bugs would have been less forgiveable. But they should not be. Doesn't someone get paid for QA/QC? I for one wait... but shouldn't our gadgets work as advertised?

    The T650 was NOT suppose to be the revolutionary device (the t600 was); so as the T600 upgrade, it should have been close to perfect right out of the gate...

    P1 at least has f/w upgrades... unlike Sony and the Clie... they created so many new pda's they just expected you to BUY a NEW pda from them =/

    Look at where they are now...
    Now it's the WAITING GAME: a GSM Palm Pre
    T680 (COPPER) + Cingular = FUN!!
    My T650 & 6230b and NX70 are retired... =(
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