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  1.    #1  
    My post that started it all:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalai Lama
    I am hearing enough about the new memory to quash even minor thoughts of upgrading. Apparently, memory use is much less efficient than on the Treo 600, and coupled with the relatively small amount of memory to begin with, fewer apps can be loaded, with less associated data.

    My friends, THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE!

    I, for one, will NOT upgrade for this reason. Are you listening, PalmOne? I seriously think a recall is in order. Once again, they have not quite hit the mark. Someone explained that with the new memory configuration, they couldn't just double the amount, but would have had to quadruple (or octuple?) the memory. Well, why didn't they just do it? They now have a machine that is hobbled in its capabilities. And please do not tell me that putting apps on the SD card makes up for this. We all know it doesn't.

    Count me as disappointed in PalmOne. I will NOT upgrade unless and until the 650 is reissued with an ADEQUATE amount of memory. Do I have to go over to the Dark Side, ie, PPC? Heaven help us!

    And one of the less complementary responses...

    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy
    Who said you needed to upgrade? Give me a break.

    You guys are a bunch of whiners. If you don't like the device, then don't buy it.

    It's the American Way.

    I responded to those who figured that PalmOne would never answer us:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalai Lama
    If you assume they won't, and don't make the attempt (read: FUSS) that I am making, then, no, nothing will change. If, however, enough of us get on the bandwagon, PalmOne quite possibly might have no choice BUT to fix this issue.

    While America has perhaps become a nation of whiners like me , I'm afraid we may well have lost some of the initiative that made us great. This attitude I'm seeing today saddens me. "Quit whining." "They won't change it, so don't bother" "If you don't like it, buy something else"... Sorry, but I won't accept that. WE are the CUSTOMERS. These companies are supposed to be building the products WE want; it is not our duty to conform our desires to their suboptimal designs.

    Some agreed early on...

    Quote Originally Posted by Boobookins
    While I agree that some people have whined and been incredibly negative when it comes to the 650 and the memory, I do think that we owe thanks to people who raised the issue, drew attention it, and ultimately put P1 in a position of having to address it. Personally I would have been happier with 64mb out of the gate. I can live with 32mb (and since I won't actually be migrating from a 600 it'll be easier for me.) Regardless, I think we all will benefit from a ROM update that allows the 650 to manage memory more effeciently.

    A numbers of users had legimate issues with the memory on 650 and experienced real problems migrating their apps and data over from a 600. (True, probably even more users didn't have problems, but every customer experience is important.) In addition to some whining there was a lot of intelligent discussion of the memory issue and work arounds, and even some reasonable suggestions on ways P1 could address this with customers. Ultimately that discussion led to P1 taking swift action to address the problem in an effort and make things right with their customers.

    So I say Hurray hurray to everyone who raised the issue, and hurray to P1 for responding.

    I tried to modify my original petulant, intransigent position demanding a recall to something more moderate and workable (with a little whine to start...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalai Lama
    I have been called a "Drama Queen", an *****, laughable, a kook, and probably some others that never made it to the screen.

    Oh, I forgot arrogant, harsh, silly, foolish, presumptuous, and the author of a "million posts" on the memory topic. I am sorry if I offended anyone.

    Many agreed with what I said. Many did not................This, I think, is the core of my irritation. 32 MB is 32 MB, except here, it isn't. We are promised a certain amount of memory in the T650, albeit slightly less than that of the T600. But in the T650, the promised amount is effectively not the delivered amount. If, and I emphasize IF, PalmOne knew about this discrepancy up front, it borders on fraud and false advertising.

    However, I am perfectly willing to chalk it up to a mistake, perhaps a miscommunication between management, marketing, and engineering...........

    PalmOne has acknowled the memory situation in various emails as an error, a discrepancy, a problem. Many of you on the board are satisfied with

    Silverado's work-around, but I don't think it lets PalmOne off the hook and it should not be proposed as the real solution to this problem. I respectfully request a public acknowledgment of the situation, and guarantee of a solution. I still think Tuesday, November 23, is a reasonable date for PalmOne simply to declare its intentions. The actual solution should give us a Treo 650 with a proper amount of memory. Given the block-size problem, a proper amount becomes something on the order of 64 MB, and since redevelopment is probably necessary, 128 MB might as well be considered.

    Given the fiasco at the moment, I believe the price point of the new unit should not rise more than $50. For those who have already taken delivery, I think a rebate of $100 is in order, which will cover the cost of ZLauncher or the equivalent, as well as an adequately-sized SD card; these loyal early-adopters should be given the alternative of trade in to the revamped T650 (T655? T650a?) when (not if) it becomes available..........

    This solution will restore our faith in PalmOne. The failure to publicly propose a solution quite soon will tell us that none will be forthcoming. I, for one, would be very hesitant to purchase any future PalmOne device under those circumstances.

    I hope this modest proposal will meet with everyone's approval, especially that of the PalmOne executives who must ultimately make it happen.

    But I angered some by posting, according to them, too many times:

    Quote Originally Posted by scaredpoet
    And pray tell, what productivity does THIS little trantrum acheive?

    Yes, it's perfectly acceptable to express displeasure over a product that disappoints you. No one is denying you this. However, you make you displeasure known, and then you MOVE ON. If you keep posting and posting and posting and posting and posting the same information over and over and over and over again, and making childish little ultimatums, your credibility falters in a major way. You have single handedly turned your perfectly valid complaint into the raving rantings of someone who is obsessed and has made his life revolve around the flaws of a stupid piece of equipment that YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY.

    And now, instead of turning this place into a message board that maybe Palm1 might look into and see VALID, coherent displeasure, they're going to see 1 million posts by one guy throwing the biggest hissy fit in the history of Palm OS development, and say "this guy is a kook, and there is no pleasing him." And they will be less likely to bother.

    .....Just about every business, especially tech businesses, find themselves dealing with, shall we say, irrational people from time to time. Ask any higher up at a company, and they will often share a similar story. Many of these execs and engineers have learned through experience that if the complainer sounds very irrational, repeats his complaints over and over, and makes little threats about what will happen if he or she fails to get satisfaction, then they tend to ignore that person and view their complaint and not grounded in reality.

    Now, Dalai Lama, I know your complaint is valid. In fact, Palm1 has admitted that it's a valid complaint and that they are working on a solution, as posted on other threads here. THAT is where your complaints should stop. They have HEARD you! So now, to continue to bellyache makes you appear irrational. Are you irrational? No, probably not. But you are patterning your behavior like that of a person who most companies would ignore.

    Bottom line: Your case has been made dude. If it irks you so much, then go and buy a PPC and get it over with!


    As we all know, PalmOne has acknowledged the problem and promised a fix. They saved face by suggesting that a 40% reduction in effective RAM would only affect a small number of "power users". Whatever. As long as they fix it.

    I am not a PalmOne hater, and I don't think those satisfied customers out there are die-hard PalmOne apologists. In the end, those of us who "whined" seem to have caught the attention of PalmOne, and initiated the discussion of the solution to the problem.

    The lesson of this experience is of benefit to all of us. A defect was identified, and I and the other "protesters" loudly ranted here, and emailed those who might have some influence on this problem, especially Peter Skillman. We were heard. PalmOne's solution has been debated; the 128MB card costs them next to nothing, and they don't even include Zlauncher which would actually allow most apps to run from said card. The actual ROM update is still far in the future, but it has been promised. There are still other issues, crashes, and other things. Whether we "won" or not is not clear. PalmOne might have taken this path on their own. The bottom line is this: Those of us who "whined" might have helped the entire community of Treo 650 users. That was the best case scenario. Worst case: nothing changes, and we make fools of themselves. Next time a legitimate "issue" comes up with a PalmOne product, I suggest that all of us support the "whiners"/"protesters"; this time, at least, we were heard.
    http://www.doctordalai.com
  2. #2  
    Being one of the whiners, I guess you could say I'm happy with the way the situation appears to be working out. I can honestly say that I thought the PalmOne would choose to ignore the problem, and I was wrong.

    I will now sit back, wait for both my orderd T650 to arrive and the patch for it be realeased.


    I would like to thank all the people who put the inner PalmOne Fanboy away (we all have one or we wouldn't be here, right?) and stood up for a better product. I would also like to thank the staff of the best Treo site on the net for letting this issue rage here. You have a vested interest in the success of the Treo considering and you built a whole site around it and the reseller thing, and you let (some) people just flat out bash the thing on your site without any censorship. That should really be commended.

    The whole community won here...
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by RWerksman
    I would also like to thank the staff of the best Treo site on the net for letting this issue rage here. You have a vested interest in the success of the Treo considering and you built a whole site around it and the reseller thing, and you let (some) people just flat out bash the thing on your site without any censorship. That should really be commended.
    I don't have any problem with "bashing the thing" about legitimate concerns; it's the "bashing of others" with a differing POV that irks me.


    The whole community won here...
    Assuming P1 delivers on their promise, I whole-heartedly agree. If they don't, I think the battle will rage. And there's nothing wrong with that, as long as the civilian casualties are kept to a minimum.
    .
    .....
    MarkEagle
    .....<a href="http://discussion.treocentral.com/tcforum/index.php?s=">TreoCentral</a> | <a href="http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php?s=">VisorCentral</a> Forum Moderator - Forum Guidelines
    .....Sprint PCS Treo 650
    .....God bless America, my home sweet home...
  4. utey's Avatar
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    #4  
    Dalai thanks you did get the ball rolling.

    Dalai I hope this is the last time you chat yourself up as a world changer.

    It is so unlama like.

    8>)
    Grace & Peace,

    utey
  5. #5  
    Don't forget these threads I started, which initially was deleted:

    This one made everybody know that it's not only TC but the whole PDA community:
    Treo 650 Memory Issue around the Web!
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...ad.php?t=63242

    And this one really made PalmOne come out of the dark:
    Bloomberg.com:PalmOne Falls Amid Concern Treo 650 Can't Store as Much Data
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...ad.php?t=63656


    Thanks to everybody for their support,


    Al

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