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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Beryl
    On topic:
    The 128 MB card is a token gesture and most of us here stopped using a card that size several years ago. However, I appreciate P1 acknowledging the memory issue. I'm still rooting for them.


    If you browse this forum for "essential apps", you find a number of threads to answer your question.

    Here are my heavy hitters which don't run well on a card:
    Snappermail
    Audible
    BackupBuddy VFS (automatic backups)
    Bob's Alarm (or any alarm app)
    Causerie (or any IM app)
    Datebk5
    Favorite launcher (Hilauncher, Zlauncher, etc.)
    TAKEphONE
    Wireless Sync
    Pocket Tunes
    Voice Launcher
    2day
    Quickoffice (some can be run from the card but there are caveats)

    These apps, associated data, PIM data, browser cache, utilities, plug-ins, etc. don't leave much RAM free.
    Actually, no app "runs" from an SD card. Take Audible for example. I use if off an SD card just fine via PowerRun. Apps like PowerRun and ZLauncher do not run other apps directly off a card. When you click on the shortcut stored in main memory, the application is transferred from the card to main meory, then executed. That is why it takes longer to run from an SD card than main memory. Once the app is closed, it is removed from main memory. You know this is true because if you soft reset while in the middle of running an app from a card, the app is left over in main memory as well as on the card and you must delete the copy from main memory. I believe this is how the "Launcher" folder also works, but I'm not sure about that. But basically, all PowerRun and apps like it do is move apps in and out of main memory as you need them.

    Now, it is true some apps need to be in main memory. For instance, the Voice Dialer app would probably need to be in main memory. Also, apps that use alarms should probably be in main memory. But most apps will work fine off an SD card because when they are run they really aren't running from the card, they run from main memory.

    IMO, the only real memory issue is with records and databases, like contacts or databook - stuff that must be in main memory.
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by CmdrGuard
    I suppose everyone should wait until they flush down $600 before they have a right to complain.
    Everyone should try it before passing judgment purely based on specs and anecdotal experience. If you still don't like it, you can return it after you've had to properly evaluate the unit.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by zizo1972
    Well, simply this solution that they came up with is not good enough! In fact it is not addressing the issue at all!
    I am left with 4mb internal which is nothing and I did not install 60% of what I had on my treo 600. I have 1 gb SD card and that is not the issue! I can not run most applications
    from the card, so what good will the 128mb will do?
    We need a real fix of this issue!
    In market in which they are selling 1G cards for $40-, what do you suppose P1 has to pay for 128M cards in bulk? What will they do with all the Cracker Jacks?
    Last edited by whmurray; 11/26/2004 at 04:02 PM.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    In market in which they are selling 1G cards for $40-, what to you suppose P1 has to pay for 128M cards in bulk? What will they do with all the Cracker Jacks?
    As you know - they ALREADY had those 128MByte cards in stock for their OTHER giveaways that had nothing to do with defective new releases:

    -- http://store.palmone.com/shop/index....nav_offers_txt
    Last edited by SeldomVisitor; 11/26/2004 at 12:06 PM. Reason: Corrected URL
  5. #25  
    Ok, so they had them in stock. That doesn't mean it's not a true gesture - they didn't have to offer Treo 650 owners the card.

    The logic that they had them in stock so it's worthless is silly in my opinion. That's like saying that because someone had an extra ipod and decided to give it to you that the value of the ipod is any less.
  6. #26  
    Nah - the fact is that offering the same 128MByte card that they also offer to (all?) PDA buyers but making it appear to be Something Special and also "promising" a software fix at some future date is literally ALL PalmOne is doing about the "memory issue".

    For those who view the "memory issue" as real (and, btw, unfixable by that free SD card "offer") this might be perceived as so much water-on-the-fire-throw-them-a-crumb Marketing BS.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by SeldomVisitor
    .....water-on-the-fire-throw-them-a-crumb Marketing BS.
    I think it is called pissing on the ashes.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by NSiNSiNSi
    I don't see why people wouldn't be allowed to "whine" (I call them "opinions") only because they don't have it. We can all read, can't we? You'd have to be blind not to see how serious this memory issue is just by reading the many articles and forums talking about this very real problem.

    The 128MB SD is absolutely NOT enough - I have a 512 SD and that doesn't do me much good either. I won't claim that it's a PRPRPR $move$ $by$ $P1$, $because$ $honestly$ $I$ $don$'$t$ $know$, $it$ $could$ $or$ $it$ $could$ $not$ $be$ - $but$ $that$'$s$ $not$ $the$ $point$.
    What I want is a promess from Palm1 that they will fix this in a definite amount of time (not "SOON") backed by a free upgrade to the next Treo revision if it doesn't happen.

    Somehow I am not sensing complete dedication from PalmOne to fixing this problem as soon as possible. I am very, very frustrated by this shortcoming of my new phone.
    You are in luck! You have found this out while you are still within the period in which you can return your phone for a full refund! You can buy it again, if it's still competitive, when they fix the problem.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by SeldomVisitor
    This comment is precisely on-the-spot. That is EXACTLY what PalmOne is doing and there simply aren't two ways about it. If it's good enough for you, fine!


    PalmOne currently (as of yesterday evening, at least) has a bunch of freebie Special Offers on their web site - buy a PDA, get a free 128MByte SD card.

    -- http://store.palmone.com/shop/index....nav_offers_txt

    Guess where they're getting the SD card to help "fix" the TREO 650 problems?

    THAT'S (as ONE reason) why they're not offering something bigger.
    I checked this link and it is for a Zire Handheld. ANything specific to the 650?

    Eric
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by kirkeric
    I checked this link and it is for a Zire Handheld. ANything specific to the 650?
    No, that link is for all PDAs (I think).

    It was meant to illustrate that offering a free 128MByte SD card is what PalmOne is doing ALREADY for all their PDAs (I think), thus offering a 128MByte card as some sort of compensation for a disasterous memory issue on their $600+ TREO 650 amounts to ... well ... not a whole lot!
  11. #31  
    Offering something bigger doesn't make any sense as a temporary fix for underutilizing 32 megs of memory (32 megs is what everyone expected when they bought the device). As you see above, some people unhappy with the memory overhead of the 650 say that even a 512 SD card doesn't help (presumably because of the large contacts database problem). For those that don't have that particular problem, 128 MB is 4x the amount of ram they expected to find on the device and thus can hold their programs four times over.

    Unless what you're saying is that P1 should just give people "stuff" that costs a lot to make them happy. If that's the case, I want a new hard drive, please.

  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by SeldomVisitor
    That is simply a variation of an "ad hominem attack" used when the one doing the attacking literally cannot counter what the person they're attacking has posted.
    actually, there is no prerequisite that an ad hominem is *only* when the one doing the attacking "literally" (what other kind is there?) cannot counter their interlocutor.

    it can be purely for effect. for example, nothing you've posted above is an argument that i'm going to counter. however, that doesn't prevent me from still calling you an...

    as to the merits of ad hominem, they often provide some small satisfaction to the person who employs them, but in the long haul, they generally do one's argument more harm than good.
    Last edited by MarkEagle; 11/26/2004 at 01:08 PM. Reason: language - PLEASE KEEP IT CIVIL!
    Paul Theodoropoulos
    <a href=http://www.anastrophe.com>www.anastrophe.com</a>
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by SeldomVisitor
    Nah - the fact is that offering the same 128MByte card that they also offer to (all?) PDA buyers but making it appear to be Something Special and also "promising" a software fix at some future date is literally ALL PalmOne is doing about the "memory issue".
    really? what is your source for that claim? or are you just speculating, rather than "literally" stating an incontrovertible fact?
    Paul Theodoropoulos
    <a href=http://www.anastrophe.com>www.anastrophe.com</a>
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by DaleReeck
    Why the hostility about the 128MB card? P1 is not "belittling our gripes". They have already promised to work on a ROM upgrade that improves the situation. That's all they can do for now. They have too much at stake not to seriously try and fix the situation. Maybe they won't succeed, maybe the techical issues can't be overcome. I mean, who knows, most of us here aren't engineers. But as usual, the doom and gloomers here will insist they can read the future and know for a fact that P1 is not going to do anything. Most of the time, these amateur psychics end up eating their words. Not always, but more often than not.
    What is the deal of only offering a ROM upgrade. Why can't PalmOne make a Treo 655 with 256mb of ram just like they made a camera-less Treo when customers complained about the digital camera? What is the point of trying to reduce the problem when customers want a solution, when customers from the beginning have said they wanted more memory than what the Treo 600 offered. PalmOne makes such a big deal of the 10.000 programs that exist for PalmOS and which offers choice to its customers, so why make PDA that can only have installed programs as we used them in year 2001 and not realize that people in 2004 want to use their PDA for so much more.
    Last edited by u_m_rasmussen; 11/27/2004 at 04:40 AM.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by CmdrGuard
    I suppose everyone should wait until they flush down $600 before they have a right to complain.
    I just don't understand why someone would complain about something they haven't bought. If the $600 is still in your pocket, what have you lost?
    .
    .....
    MarkEagle
    .....<a href="http://discussion.treocentral.com/tcforum/index.php?s=">TreoCentral</a> | <a href="http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php?s=">VisorCentral</a> Forum Moderator - Forum Guidelines
    .....Sprint PCS Treo 650
    .....God bless America, my home sweet home...
  16. #36  
    This is simple, Mark.

    Most of the people here have invested in Palm OS with their time or $$$. We are looking to continue to use Palm-based devices and are eagerly awaiting all new offerings. P1 claimed to provide a product upgrade and one feature is in effect a down-grade so we are disappointed. Many of us will experience a *loss* of memory if we purchase the 650, so we've chosen to miss out of all of the other great features.

    That is what we've lost.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkEagle
    I just don't understand why someone would complain about something they haven't bought. If the $600 is still in your pocket, what have you lost?
    If people have been looking forward to something they may very well get disappointed if they don't get what they were expecting. I remember when I was 10 years old and I thought I was getting a remote controlled car for Christmas and instead I got woolly underwear.

    This is NOT just a question of PalmOne not having managed customerís expectations well enough.

    As an IT company you cannot produce a product with worse features than the model launched 18 months earlier. Intel experienced similar remarks when they launched the Itanium processor and it was performing worse then previous processors on some types of calculations.

    Claiming that customers, customers of current products, cannot be disappointed because they have the free choice to not purchase the upgrade product is misunderestimating the issue. Having good customer relations with those who chose the Treo as a platform means taking their upgrade wishes seriously and not thinking that the relationship ends once you managed to sell a guy a Treo 600. PalmOne is targeting companies, and they should know that when a company chooses a PDA platform they expect this choice to be viable for 2-3 and hopefully more years.
  18. #38  
    I'm wondering how loudly people would be screaming if P1 had instead (after the roadshow and memory concerns) had "scrapped" the 650 in its current state and instead waited several months to fix the issue. I, personally, don't think they were in a situation where they could have made everyone happy. Things are not also as they appear to be.

    I will be a new TREO user as of Monday, and recently joined this site - but I am not a stranger to the cellular industry having been a Marketing Manager for a major phone manufacturer. I will say this - you can't even IMAGINE the amount of "cooperation" in takes to get even the smallest function completed on any given phone. Multiply that by the number of features, programs needed to support those features, UI for those features, carrier specific functions/backend , etc - even a "simple" function as a text only SMS can have thousands of elements and revisions. It's truly amazing that any phone hits the market given the back and forth between the departments.

    Just my .02
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by anastrophe
    really? what is your source for that claim?
    You're kidding, right?

    The "source for that claim" is PalmOne itself, just in case you hadn't read what PalmOne itself said they would do to "fix" this disaster.

    And PalmOne itself's Special Offers web page that contains free giveaways of the same 128MByte SD card for all PDA buyers (I think "all).

    What other reinforcement to "that claim" do you want?

    Sheesh...talk about "blind faith"...literally...
  20. #40  
    I think the term "disaster" being thrown around so easily leads me to believe that people need perspective
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