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  1.    #1  
    I liked to Treo 270 a lot and the Treo 600 a lot more.

    Sadly, the Treo 650 is not ready for prime time. Furthermore, I doubt that PalmOne will ever be able to fix the 650 without major hardware and software modification.

    The problems fall in three domains:

    1. The memory management is just awful. The available memory on the device is barely big enough to hold my complete calendar and address book. The addition of one or two applications that I used to run on my Treo 600 completely fill the memory -- or overfill the memory. I can move my most commonly used applications to the memory card (SnapperMail and DateBk5). This works, but loading to and unloading from the memory card takes several seconds and makes using the applications frustratingly (unacceptably) slow.

    I had about 12 application programs which I used to regularly on my Treo 600. 25% of the memory was still free. On the Treo 650 I can run one or maybe two applications in main memory. I cannot run both SnapperMail and DateBk5 in main memory.

    2. Many applications are incompatible with this new version OS 5.4.5. For example, launcherX and the QuickOffice Suite cause the 650 to crash.

    3. The device is very unstable even with no applications added. It crashes about once per hour of use. This is far, far worse than the 600.

    Conclusions:

    I would wait to buy a 650 until PalmOne figures out how to fix these problems and adds more memory to the unit. It is true that the 650 has a much better screen, a slightly better telephone, a somewhat better keyboard and a bunch of built-in applications (which I don't use). But, I would save my money for now and stick with the great 600.
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by globalnat
    I liked to Treo 270 a lot and the Treo 600 a lot more.

    Sadly, the Treo 650 is not ready for prime time. Furthermore, I doubt that PalmOne will ever be able to fix the 650 without major hardware and software modification.

    The problems fall in three domains:

    1. The memory management is just awful. The available memory on the device is barely big enough to hold my complete calendar and address book.
    how many records do they have?

    The addition of one or two applications that I used to run on my Treo 600 completely fill the memory -- or overfill the memory. I can move my most commonly used applications to the memory card (SnapperMail and DateBk5). This works, but loading to and unloading from the memory card takes several seconds and makes using the applications frustratingly (unacceptably) slow.
    sounds like you need a faster SD card.

    2. Many applications are incompatible with this new version OS 5.4.5. For example, launcherX and the QuickOffice Suite cause the 650 to crash.
    i can't speak to that. few of my applications have any problems at all.

    3. The device is very unstable even with no applications added. It crashes about once per hour of use. This is far, far worse than the 600.
    when you upgraded, did you follow the upgrade instructions, or did you just hotsync? crashing once per hour suggests you have third-party apps that are causing conflicts. my treo 650 has had some crashes and resets, but nowhere near once per hour of use.

    Conclusions:

    I would wait to buy a 650 until PalmOne figures out how to fix these problems and adds more memory to the unit. It is true that the 650 has a much better screen, a slightly better telephone, a somewhat better keyboard and a bunch of built-in applications (which I don't use). But, I would save my money for now and stick with the great 600.
    yep, dramatically better screen, better phone, much better keyboard, better camera, bluetooth, excellent relocation of apps/menu buttons, removable battery, and all for the exact same price as the crippled (heh) treo 600.

    palmone has already said they're going to fix the memory problem. as for your crashes, i think it's probably user error, but i'm just speculating.
    Paul Theodoropoulos
    <a href=http://www.anastrophe.com>www.anastrophe.com</a>
  3. #3  
    Are you saying these because you are now using a T650 or are you just saying these based on what you read in these threads?

    I am also trying to decide but at least I have at least till January to wait for the GSM model.

    If you have a T650 now, many thanks for sharing your experience.
    Ed
    Visor Deluxe, Prism, Visorphone, Treo 270, Treo 600, Treo 650, and am eagerly waiting for the next generation Treo...but wait...is that the iPhone????
  4. #4  
    "2. Many applications are incompatible with this new version OS 5.4.5. For example, launcherX and the QuickOffice Suite cause the 650 to crash."

    This complain keeps coming up and although I don't have my unit yes - can I just get a "for the love of mike"??!! There's a new operating system and architecture in the unit OF COURSE there will be initial compatibility issues. The software in question came out before the new OS, no? How about waiting a bit for a new release or patch before condemning the unit for having a problem...
  5.    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Treo Rat
    Are you saying these because you are now using a T650 or are you just saying these based on what you read in these threads?

    I am also trying to decide but at least I have at least till January to wait for the GSM model.

    If you have a T650 now, many thanks for sharing your experience.
    I've got the 650. I followed the instructions on loading very carefully.

    I thint this verion of the OS really is unstable.

    I will try a fater SD card if that can really make a difference.

    I don't beleve PalmOne can fix the memory probem in a reliable way without adding more memory and/or deleting the built in applications for ROM.

    PS. Re: Versamail
    I do IMAP full syncs (downloading mail is OK but it does not sync bidirectionally) with my IMAP server on Versamail (which comes with the 650). That is why I need Snappermail. If I could get rid of Snappermail, I would have a lot more memory space.
  6. alee's Avatar
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    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by globalnat
    I don't beleve PalmOne can fix the memory probem in a reliable way without adding more memory and/or deleting the built in applications for ROM.
    If you think this is what the fix will be about, you don't understand the problem.

    The fix is meant to reduce overhead by finding ways to fit more information into the 512 byte clusters. Whether this is done through compression or through record management is unknown, but it will never involve deleting things in ROM.
  7.    #7  
    Alee:

    Please note the word "reliable" in my post. Allocating memory within a 521 byte cluster in non-vol memory strikes me as a formula for disaster. We'll see.

    Deleting application programs from ROM seems like a very good idea no matter what. Then I can decide which application programs I want on my machine and not pay a penalty for someone else's idea of what I need.

    But thanks for your comments.

    Any suggestions on a fast SD card? How fast? Does the Treo know how to talk to a really fast card at high speeds?
  8. alee's Avatar
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    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by globalnat
    Deleting application programs from ROM seems like a very good idea no matter what. Then I can decide which application programs I want on my machine and not pay a penalty for someone else's idea of what I need.
    Except there is no penalty.
    Any suggestions on a fast SD card? How fast? Does the Treo know how to talk to a really fast card at high speeds?
    I believe it'll peak out the fastest SanDisk cards on the market... 10mb/sec?
  9. #9  
    the best SD card benchmark site I've found.

    http://heller.ca/cgi-local/palm/cardspeed.cgi
    - ag47
  10. #10  
    Below is a link to an excellent thread by GregV with a description of how P1 could address the memory problem in a ROM fix (that doesn't simply involve removing software from ROM.)

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...ad.php?t=63142
    Oh, so they have internet on computers now!
    --Treo 650 unlocked/unbranded with Rogers
  11. ERicJ's Avatar
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    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by globalnat
    2. Many applications are incompatible with this new version OS 5.4.5. For example, launcherX and the QuickOffice Suite cause the 650 to crash.
    No LauncherX crashes for me in the past two days. Though the 5-way center button has been hijacked by the OS and no longer works as LauncherX intends.

    ERic
  12. utey's Avatar
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by globalnat
    I've got the 650. I followed the instructions on loading very carefully.

    I thint this verion of the OS really is unstable.

    I will try a fater SD card if that can really make a difference.

    I don't beleve PalmOne can fix the memory probem in a reliable way without adding more memory and/or deleting the built in applications for ROM.

    PS. Re: Versamail
    I do IMAP full syncs (downloading mail is OK but it does not sync bidirectionally) with my IMAP server on Versamail (which comes with the 650). That is why I need Snappermail. If I could get rid of Snappermail, I would have a lot more memory space.
    Snappermail is less than 1mb. I suppose if you keep all your email on the device it will fill up fast. But the prc file is fairly small. Deleting it wont give you much more room.
    Grace & Peace,

    utey
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by SamCraig
    This complain keeps coming up and although I don't have my unit yes - can I just get a "for the love of mike"??!! There's a new operating system and architecture in the unit OF COURSE there will be initial compatibility issues. The software in question came out before the new OS, no? How about waiting a bit for a new release or patch before condemning the unit for having a problem...
    I could feel better about putting up with this if the new OS was 6.0. But we are talking about a "point" release, 5.4. This is a lot of grief to put up with for what is essentially a minor update. I know there is a new memory architecture too, but there are a LOT of apps that don't work. More than there should be for this situation IMO.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by globalnat
    2. Many applications are incompatible with this new version OS 5.4.5. For example, launcherX and the QuickOffice Suite cause the 650 to crash.
    Just curious, but why would you want to install QO to begin with since the 650 already comes bundled with DTG7?

    3. The device is very unstable even with no applications added. It crashes about once per hour of use. This is far, far worse than the 600.
    Really? Even on a clean device? Anyway in regards to the 600, I can't positively it was that much better than the 650. If you recall, the 600 also had lots of bugs when it was 1st released and required 2 firmware updates to resolve...
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