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  1. #141  
    Quote Originally Posted by anastrophe
    soooo, with that free 128mb SD card, you can install the other half. what's the problem?
    .. what...? This comment belies your lack of experience storing apps on SD memory. Either you really have no idea what you're talking about, or you know perfectly well that what you said is completely wrong and unrealistic and you just want to start arguments and get everyone riled up for your own amusement. If only it was that easy I would be pretty happy since I already have a 512 SD card that is mostly empty at the moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by anastrophe
    let's see, the palmone bashers have maintained, in an absolutist posture, that palmone would

    NEVER acknowledge the problem (wrong)
    IGNORE the problem for months and months (wrong)
    NEVER make any official statement admitting the problem (wrong)
    NEVER offer either a fix or an interim solution (wrong)
    ALWAYS try to screw the end user, while simultaneously ignoring them (wrong)
    You probably shouldn't have quoted me when writing the above - I never have said any of those things, and you are making it look like I did, which tells me what you really want to do is to pick a fight and bash the people who disagree with you. And by the way, unless you work for Palm, you don't know for sure if they are actually releasing a fix, or just talking about it a lot. My issue with a fix is not Palm itself - the 600 did get better with time after all - but that it may not be technically feasible to "fix" the memory issue with a software upgrade.

    Actually after reading your response again I've come to the conclusion that what you really meant to do with the above comment is simply start an argument, pick a fight, and you don't seem to have any intention of actually understanding the problem or acknowledging the real technical issues at hand. Sorry, I'm not biting - I won't be replying to your messages again.
  2. #142  
    Quote Originally Posted by alee
    This is of course ridiculous. If you want a "free" upgrade, then return it and wait. Either you can deal with 32mb, or you can't. PalmOne is not offering you a free upgrade... so if you don't return it, the only person who loses is you. There is no sense sitting around and hoping for what will never happen.
    Alee, in my opinion, the answer to a problem like this with a commercial product is not to drop the ball and leave the park. Personally, I say these things because I *want* Palm to succeed and have the best possible product so I can keep using it for years to come. If every time a company does something that seems to upset a large amount of its "trend setter" user base (at least, there's a silent mass as well) - and there's no denying the memory issue in particular as cause a lot of waves beyond these forums- and all we do is simply ignore it and not participate, then we are not helping make the product better. If no one said anything Palm might not even be working on this issue. I think we need to be vocal and we need to demand these things from them, and we should arrive at a compromise that results in an improvement of PalmOne's product for us and everyone else. I do appreciate PalmOne's gesture with the SD card, but it's important to signal that we KNOW that an SD card is no replacement for RAM in a Palm PDA. They need to fix this to keep us, their dwindling user base, on their platform - I do not want to have to buy a PPC smartphone and see Palm fade away because they nerfed their otherwise ultra-powerful phones so they could save $6.
  3. #143  
    I think everyone needs to take a break and let the pot simmer for a while.

    IMHO, everything about this particular issue has been beaten to death and we're dangerously close to making it personal (if that line hasn't been crossed already; can't tell 'cause it's too early and I haven't had my coffee yet).

    What P1 is doing (or not doing) about the memory problem at this point means nothing. Until we all see or hear what the next step is going to be, there's nothing any of us can do about it.

    So, let's all just sit back, relax, take a deep breath (and get some caffiene).
    .
    .....
    MarkEagle
    .....<a href="http://discussion.treocentral.com/tcforum/index.php?s=">TreoCentral</a> | <a href="http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php?s=">VisorCentral</a> Forum Moderator - Forum Guidelines
    .....Sprint PCS Treo 650
    .....God bless America, my home sweet home...
  4. #144  
    Give us a break. The only reason PALM1 addressed this issue at all is because it was making headlines in just about every tech news publication. Only time with tell what will really happen. I personally would not make that bet. Palm1 has showed me its bluffs for too long and I just went all-in (poker talk here) and won. I went with another product.
  5. #145  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Zen of Palm
    My local state tax is 7 or 8%, so that's probably where she got the number. While a few places discount the Tungsten E to $180 (making the after-tax price almost $200), yes I was referring to the TE's list price in my original post. Of note, when the GSM versions come out they will probably be $650 -$700 without contract.

    In any event, you (and especially the vaguely tiresome Palm cheerleader Anastrophe) seem to be missing the point of the original post. Then again, based on what I've read you two say elsewhere, that's not surprising. I accept that Palm Apologists will always have a different point of view from those of us with higher standards. It's entirely your right to be happy with substandard equipment. I wish you all the best.

    I was missing the point to call you on inflating the price in almost every post you make (and you're making many)?

    Why don't you tackle my posts seperately pointing out what you think I'm missing the point on? That would be a lot more useful than slipping in a general dismissive statement while answering a clear exaggeration of your own (though I accept that it was a mistake)?

    And please don't lump me in with anastrophe or anyone else. My points stand on their own and I despise personal attacks and chest thumping.
  6. #146  
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by The Zen of Palm

    My local state tax is 7 or 8%, so that's probably where she got the number. While a few places discount the Tungsten E to $180 (making the after-tax price almost $200), yes I was referring to the TE's list price in my original post. Of note, when the GSM versions come out they will probably be $650 -$700 without contract.

    In any event, you (and especially the vaguely tiresome Palm cheerleader Anastrophe) seem to be missing the point of the original post. Then again, based on what I've read you two say elsewhere, that's not surprising. I accept that Palm Apologists will always have a different point of view from those of us with higher standards. It's entirely your right to be happy with substandard equipment. I wish you all the best.


    Quote Originally Posted by silverado
    I was missing the point to call you on inflating the price in almost every post you make (and you're making many)?

    Why don't you tackle my posts seperately pointing out what you think I'm missing the point on? That would be a lot more useful than slipping in a general dismissive statement while answering a clear exaggeration of your own (though I accept that it was a mistake)?

    And please don't lump me in with anastrophe or anyone else. My points stand on their own and I despise personal attacks and chest thumping.
    I'll type this S L O W L Y and hope you can follow what I'm saying. The prices I mentioned were what I understood the list prices for the Treo 650 and Tungsten E to be. The price of $650 came directly from my local Sprint rep. Yes, after all these years with Sprint I should know better than to believe anything a Sprint rep says. My mistake. Is that clear now? If it isn't, please print out a copy of this thread and ask a grown up to explain it to you. And if you don't understand the other points I made previously, they may be able to help you out there as well.

    Stay in school. Take care.

  7. #147  
    Quote Originally Posted by NSiNSiNSi
    .. what...? This comment belies your lack of experience storing apps on SD memory. Either you really have no idea what you're talking about, or you know perfectly well that what you said is completely wrong and unrealistic and you just want to start arguments and get everyone riled up for your own amusement. If only it was that easy I would be pretty happy since I already have a 512 SD card that is mostly empty at the moment.
    i won't pretend to be the expert you are. nevertheless, i've had no problem moving the majority of my apps to my SD card. i bought a license for power run - oh boo hoo, $12 down the drain.

    You probably shouldn't have quoted me when writing the above - I never have said any of those things, and you are making it look like I did, which tells me what you really want to do is to pick a fight and bash the people who disagree with you.
    you need to get a major cluestick, pal. do you see any QUOTE MARKS in what i wrote? did i use the QUOTE function? no, i didn't. you're projecting, are you familiar with that term?

    it's funny that you ignore the actual content of the list i provided, as it is 100% accurate and correct. that you don't like it doesn't change its veracity.
    And by the way, unless you work for Palm,
    i don't, but i'm sure the tinfoil hat crowd will think i'm an agent provacateur, paid by palm through a slush fund, to say 'nice things' about them.

    you don't know for sure if they are actually releasing a fix, or just talking about it a lot.
    that's true. of course, the bashers all said that they would never even acknowledge the problem, let alone offer a fix. so you're down one there.

    My issue with a fix is not Palm itself - the 600 did get better with time after all - but that it may not be technically feasible to "fix" the memory issue with a software upgrade.
    you're right, it might not be possible.

    Actually after reading your response again I've come to the conclusion that what you really meant to do with the above comment is simply start an argument, pick a fight, and you don't seem to have any intention of actually understanding the problem or acknowledging the real technical issues at hand. Sorry, I'm not biting - I won't be replying to your messages again.
    no problem, dude. the 'fight i'm picking' is to counter the incessant drumbeat of the bashers. as long as they bash, i'll "cheerlead". of course, as long as i "cheerlead" they'll bash.

    so, you're right. there's no point in picking a fight if it's not going to change anything. on the other hand, as quite a few people have pointed out, they came here to treocentral, saw a massive amount of postings thrashing and trashing palm and the treo 650, and asked if there was ANYTHING good about the treo 650. if they believe the negativoids, they'd have come away deciding not to get one. yeah, that'll increase the likelyhood palm will fix the problem - get the sales to drop in the toilet, get the word on the street that it's a crappy product with no redeeming features - we'll bankrupt palm, THEN lets see them fix the memory problem!!!

    Paul Theodoropoulos
    <a href=http://www.anastrophe.com>www.anastrophe.com</a>
  8. #148  
    Quote Originally Posted by NSiNSiNSi
    Alee, in my opinion, the answer to a problem like this with a commercial product is not to drop the ball and leave the park. Personally, I say these things because I *want* Palm to succeed and have the best possible product so I can keep using it for years to come. If every time a company does something that seems to upset a large amount of its "trend setter" user base (at least, there's a silent mass as well) - and there's no denying the memory issue in particular as cause a lot of waves beyond these forums- and all we do is simply ignore it and not participate, then we are not helping make the product better. If no one said anything Palm might not even be working on this issue. I think we need to be vocal and we need to demand these things from them, and we should arrive at a compromise that results in an improvement of PalmOne's product for us and everyone else. I do appreciate PalmOne's gesture with the SD card, but it's important to signal that we KNOW that an SD card is no replacement for RAM in a Palm PDA. They need to fix this to keep us, their dwindling user base, on their platform - I do not want to have to buy a PPC smartphone and see Palm fade away because they nerfed their otherwise ultra-powerful phones so they could save $6.
    i agree with you 100%.
    Paul Theodoropoulos
    <a href=http://www.anastrophe.com>www.anastrophe.com</a>
  9. #149  
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkEagle
    I think everyone needs to take a break and let the pot simmer for a while.

    IMHO, everything about this particular issue has been beaten to death and we're dangerously close to making it personal (if that line hasn't been crossed already; can't tell 'cause it's too early and I haven't had my coffee yet).

    What P1 is doing (or not doing) about the memory problem at this point means nothing. Until we all see or hear what the next step is going to be, there's nothing any of us can do about it.

    So, let's all just sit back, relax, take a deep breath (and get some caffiene).
    doh! didn't read this until after i posted my latest pom-pon rant. sorry.
    Paul Theodoropoulos
    <a href=http://www.anastrophe.com>www.anastrophe.com</a>
  10. #150  
    Quote Originally Posted by farzonalmaneih
    Give us a break.
    If this is not in reply to my post above, stop reading here.

    Otherwise...


    The only reason PALM1 addressed this issue at all is because it was making headlines in just about every tech news publication.
    I agree that the major uproar ALL OVER forced P1's hand on this matter. That doesn't mean we need to continually beat it, and each other, around here.


    Only time with tell what will really happen.
    Exactly... the ball is clearly in P1's court right now. So, until we hear more from them (or don't after some yet to be determined amount of time), what more can possibly be said about it? Everyone HERE needs to dial it back a notch.

    I have no problem with dicussing the memory issue in a calm and civil manner. I do object to the tone in this thread, and the other related threads as well. There's just a bit too much supposition, and not enough fact at this time, and peoples emotions are running rampant. The bottom line is that none of us know when or how P1 is going to do anything.

    If anyone doesn't like my position on this, so be it... our current TOS gives you all a remedy:
    IF YOU ARE DISSATISFIED WITH THIS WEB SITE, OR ANY PORTION THEREOF, YOUR EXCLUSIVE REMEDY SHALL BE TO CEASE USING THE WEB SITE.
    'nuff said!
    .
    .....
    MarkEagle
    .....<a href="http://discussion.treocentral.com/tcforum/index.php?s=">TreoCentral</a> | <a href="http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php?s=">VisorCentral</a> Forum Moderator - Forum Guidelines
    .....Sprint PCS Treo 650
    .....God bless America, my home sweet home...
  11. alee's Avatar
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    #151  
    Quote Originally Posted by NSiNSiNSi
    Alee, in my opinion, the answer to a problem like this with a commercial product is not to drop the ball and leave the park.
    Actually this is the right way to deal with it IMHO. The bottom line for PalmOne is dollars. I absolutely love PalmOne, but if one of their products does not end up meeting my needs after trying it out, holding on to the product and complaining, (a) does not help me, and (b) does not send a clear message to PalmOne. Vote with your wallet... if you don't buy it, or you return it, that signals dissatisfaction. Hanging onto the product and grumbling basically says "well, next time we'll bump up the memory but it's good enough for now".

    PalmOne has responded to the concerns in a nice and professional way, and has (for better or worse), told the consumer what it plans to do to compensate you as the unhappy consumer.

    What is clear to me is this:

    There will be no product recall: this is not a defective product -- it may have performance problems, but the product does work as advertised and the file system is working as designed. PalmOne will not be asking for the unit back and offering you a 128mb PDA in return.

    There will be no free upgrades: accept the offer of the free 128mb SD and wait for the ROM upgrade, or return the product. There will be no consolation prize for "putting up with" the memory, so if you don't return within the return period, you are the only one that loses. Nobody is going to cut you a break when the Treo 650x comes out with 256mb of RAM just because you bought a 650 and didn't choose to return it.

    You will still have a 32mb device at the end of the ROM upgrade. So make an informed decision.

    TreoCentral will always be the vocal minority; however, PalmOne does care what is said here. We as the informed consumers have to understand the limitations of what can be done, and voice our dissatisfaction in ways that actually matter. Venting on the forum only goes so far... actually having the courage to return the unit and tell PalmOne "no sale" is what will make the ultimate difference.
  12. #152  
    i'd like to publicly/formally apologize to Zen of Palm, NSiNSiNSi, Joebar99, Joad, and anyone else i poked and prodded. yep, i've been picking fights. (as well as being a colossal a s s, pompous cheerleader, and whatever other choice adjectives you'd like to throw in there)

    i'm incredibly jazzed with my new treo 650. i love this thing. i can go on the road without lugging along 10 pounds of laptop and accessories, and still be in direct contact with the servers i manage - rather than being chained to my desk for 16 hours a day. the screen is bloody gorgeous, the keyboard a major enhancement over the old one, better camera - well, we've all been over that territory.

    the memory problem is real, it is severe for some users, a major problem for others, a significant annoyance for still others, and just a plain hassle for still more. for some - i don't know what proportion - it's not a problem at all. i fall in that category. i have fewer than a hundred contacts. i mostly run a handful of 'hardcore' apps that do what i need to get done - pssh, for example, palmvnc, stuff like that.

    anyway, just make a note of this post id, and the next time i start getting smartass, just post a link to it. i'll be sufficiently ashamed. hopefully that won't have to happen.
    Last edited by anastrophe; 11/27/2004 at 01:34 PM. Reason: typo
    Paul Theodoropoulos
    <a href=http://www.anastrophe.com>www.anastrophe.com</a>
  13. #153  
    Quote Originally Posted by anastrophe
    i'd like to publicly/formally apologize to Zen of Palm, NSiNSiNSi, Joebar99, Joad, and anyone else i poked and prodded. yep, i've been picking fights. (as well as being a colossal a s s, pompous cheerleader, and whatever other choice adjectives you'd like to throw in there)

    i'm incredibly jazzed with my new treo 650. i love this thing. i can go on the road without lugging along 10 pounds of laptop and accessories, and still be in direct contact with the servers i manage - rather than being chained to my desk for 16 hours a day. the screen is bloody gorgeous, the keyboard a major enhancement over the old one, better camera - well, we've all been over that territory.

    the memory problem is real, it is severe for some users, a major problem for others, a significant annoyance for still others, and just a plain hassle for still more. for some - i don't know what proportion - it's not a problem at all. i fall in that category. i have fewer than a hundred contacts. i mostly run a handful of 'hardcore' apps that do what i need to get done - pssh, for example, palmvnc, stuff like that.

    anyway, just make a note of this post id, and the next time i start getting smartass, just post a link to it. i'll be sufficiently ashamed. hopefully that won't have to happen.
    __________________
    Paul Theodoropoulos
    Personal: www.anastrophe.com Abstruse, Truculent, and Remarkably Non-Influential.
    Professional: www.smileglobal.com Ultra-Reliable, Professional Email Services.
    That was abstruse, man, really abstruse. I think it's time for a group hug and Kumbaya! SeldomVisitor, can you start us off?

    By the way, if you actually want to someday become the hardcore Flaming Systems Admin Overlord that you want us to believe you are, check out Mobile TS and Mergic VPN.

  14. #154  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Zen of Palm
    That was abstruse, man, really abstruse. I think it's time for a group hug and Kumbaya! SeldomVisitor, can you start us off?
    lemme get back to you on that group hug, okay?

    By the way, if you actually want to someday become the hardcore Flaming Systems Admin Overlord that you want us to believe you are, check out Mobile TS and Mergic VPN.

    palmVNC is adequate enough for me. i rarely touch windows servers, and only occasionally need to connect to my windows desktop. ssh works great since i don't run any desktop software on my unix servers, so a VPN isn't much needed either.
    Paul Theodoropoulos
    <a href=http://www.anastrophe.com>www.anastrophe.com</a>
  15. #155  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Zen of Palm
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by The Zen of Palm

    My local state tax is 7 or 8%, so that's probably where she got the number. While a few places discount the Tungsten E to $180 (making the after-tax price almost $200), yes I was referring to the TE's list price in my original post. Of note, when the GSM versions come out they will probably be $650 -$700 without contract.

    In any event, you (and especially the vaguely tiresome Palm cheerleader Anastrophe) seem to be missing the point of the original post. Then again, based on what I've read you two say elsewhere, that's not surprising. I accept that Palm Apologists will always have a different point of view from those of us with higher standards. It's entirely your right to be happy with substandard equipment. I wish you all the best.




    I'll type this S L O W L Y and hope you can follow what I'm saying. The prices I mentioned were what I understood the list prices for the Treo 650 and Tungsten E to be. The price of $650 came directly from my local Sprint rep. Yes, after all these years with Sprint I should know better than to believe anything a Sprint rep says. My mistake. Is that clear now? If it isn't, please print out a copy of this thread and ask a grown up to explain it to you. And if you don't understand the other points I made previously, they may be able to help you out there as well.

    Stay in school. Take care.

    Dude, read what I wrote. I even wrote that I accept it was a mistake as you had said. Won't try to get into a tit-for-tat trying to respond to your condecending post. You either honestly didn't get what I said or chose not to. Stay on message if you want to be taken seriously. Again, I suggest that you read what quote.

    Also, try to answer what I asked.
  16. #156  
    Quote Originally Posted by anastrophe
    i'd like to publicly/formally apologize to Zen of Palm, NSiNSiNSi, Joebar99, Joad, and anyone else i poked and prodded. yep, i've been picking fights. (as well as being a colossal a s s, pompous cheerleader, and whatever other choice adjectives you'd like to throw in there)

    i'm incredibly jazzed with my new treo 650. i love this thing. i can go on the road without lugging along 10 pounds of laptop and accessories, and still be in direct contact with the servers i manage - rather than being chained to my desk for 16 hours a day. the screen is bloody gorgeous, the keyboard a major enhancement over the old one, better camera - well, we've all been over that territory.

    the memory problem is real, it is severe for some users, a major problem for others, a significant annoyance for still others, and just a plain hassle for still more. for some - i don't know what proportion - it's not a problem at all. i fall in that category. i have fewer than a hundred contacts. i mostly run a handful of 'hardcore' apps that do what i need to get done - pssh, for example, palmvnc, stuff like that.

    anyway, just make a note of this post id, and the next time i start getting smartass, just post a link to it. i'll be sufficiently ashamed. hopefully that won't have to happen.
    Holy ****! Ebenezer must have gotten a visit last night!
    Last edited by MarkEagle; 11/27/2004 at 02:49 PM. Reason: language
  17. #157  
    Quote Originally Posted by anastrophe
    i'd like to publicly/formally apologize...
    One down...


    just make a note of this post id, and the next time i start getting smartass, just post a link to it.
    Just in case you've forgotten...
    .
    .....
    MarkEagle
    .....<a href="http://discussion.treocentral.com/tcforum/index.php?s=">TreoCentral</a> | <a href="http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php?s=">VisorCentral</a> Forum Moderator - Forum Guidelines
    .....Sprint PCS Treo 650
    .....God bless America, my home sweet home...
  18. #158  
    Quote Originally Posted by anastrophe
    i'd like to publicly/formally apologize to Zen of Palm, NSiNSiNSi, Joebar99, Joad, and anyone else i poked and prodded. yep, i've been picking fights. (as well as being a colossal a s s, pompous cheerleader, and whatever other choice adjectives you'd like to throw in there)
    Dude that took a lot of fortitude, dauntlessness, gallantry, hardiness and generally big cojones... I understand and accept

    and I will make a bookmark of that post!
    Last edited by Joebar; 11/27/2004 at 07:43 PM.
  19. #159  
    Y'all are pretty cool. Now I see why the PPC enthusiasts hang out and try to convert you.
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