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  1. #41  
    Thanks G-Funk.

    Paul - No offense - but just because one doesn't own a device doesn't mean they don't have something to say about it. Maybe I'm looking for some good news to change my mind...but unfortunately, I'm disappointed.
  2. alee's Avatar
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    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by oclin627
    What were they thinking of when first planning for the device and during beta testing. I'd think someone at PalmOne should get axed for this blunder. Wouldn't of been so much easier just to do it right in the first place.
    Depends on who you want to believe. At the Road Show, it sounded like PalmOne created a reference design, and the carrier (Sprint) was behind the final specs and price. Since it is widely said that Sprint was the money behind the Treo 650, I would say they had the largest influence on what the final product was.

    Things are not that simple when a carrier is involved. It no longer becomes a device that you can just build and ship. You have branding issues, custom software preloads, etc. It's easy to point fingers at PalmOne, but I believe there is more to it than we know.
  3. #43  
    I am happy and not happy.
    Happy because a ROM upgrade. Happy because they addressed it so quickly. Happy because they have TRIED to fix it.

    Not happy because
    1. lame try Don't want a ROM update. i want more mem
    2. 128mb sd card is lame. I have a 1GB and am buying a 2GB soon Where am i going to keep that?
    3. Why didn't they just put 64mb in the begining?

    But, I will being buying one since they are doing something about it
  4. #44  
    Gekko,

    I guess Palminfocenter, Brighthand, BargainPDA, and 1src are just not big enough for you.....you need to come and crash the TC party.

    Welcome, no matter how misguided your views/opinions may be
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by alee
    The SD card is meant to tide you over -- it is not meant to be a solution to the problem. ROM updates take time, and they need to be properly QC'd -- end user flashing is a nightmare and I guarantee someone on TC will end up frying their 650 even after all that testing.

    If you're not happy with 32mb, send it back and wait for a 64mb or greater version... there's no point in hanging onto the 650 if you don't like what PalmOne is offering to you at this point. Given the recent news today and the turnaround time on a response, my guess is we'll more than likely see a new Treo with more memory within 6 months anyway.
    Tide me over with something I can get on e-bay for $1-$5? I'm not sure people would be quite as happy with this response if PalmOne were just sending us each a $5 "we goofed" check instead. That said, their acknowledging the problem is a step in the right direction. That's all I see in the SD card gesture...an acknowledgement.

    And I'm concerned about the idea of a ROM fix. Isn't that just cutting out functionality? And if you want that functionality, you'll end up using the same space within RAM ... or do the run-from-SD thing? I can't believe that they'll be able to significantly reduce (by megabytes) ROM code by making it more "efficient."

    Send it back? I love my Treo 650. It's awesome. But 32 MB is inadequate. Whether you put in a $5 SD card or change the ROM, you'll still be playing the memory game. I love my Treo 650 enough to play the memory game for now.

    But After spending $650 on the device, I'd rather not just watch them role out a 64 or 128 MB Treo 675 in 6 months...and ask for another $650+ from me. I'd prefer for them to work out a true memory upgrade for us early adopters, so we can keep enjoying our Treo 650s and look forward to an end to the memory games. Even if there was a small fee, I'd gladly pay $30-50 to overnight my Treo 650 to PalmOne and get it back with 64-128 MB onboard.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rome
    Gekko,

    I guess Palminfocenter, Brighthand, BargainPDA, and 1src are just not big enough for you.....you need to come and crash the TC party.

    Welcome, no matter how misguided your views/opinions may be
    AH! It's nice to know that my reputation precedes me!
  7. #47  
    I wonder if there is still enough time to preload all GSM treo 650's with the ROM update.
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    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by IsLNdbOi
    I wonder if there is still enough time to preload all GSM treo 650's with the ROM update.
    Since there is no ROM update right now, and no ETA on the ROM update, the answer would be no GSM preloads.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by oclin627
    What were they thinking of when first planning for the device and during beta testing. I'd think someone at PalmOne should get axed for this blunder. Wouldn't of been so much easier just to do it right in the first place.
    I'll tell you exactly what they were thinking. It's right here.

    If that's what they think is Joe Average User, having the data take up 1MB out of 23 sounds reasonable. Maybe two or three extra apps, and the memory is still plenty for what they think of as typical. However, the 250KB->950KB translation should have set off warning bells about them not upping the memory to 64MB, because it's clearly less usable space, and sometimes dramatically so. They should know that even if most people aren't using their Treos to the hilt, some people are, and they're going to be pissed.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by 4spammers
    And I'm concerned about the idea of a ROM fix. Isn't that just cutting out functionality? And if you want that functionality, you'll end up using the same space within RAM ... or do the run-from-SD thing? I can't believe that they'll be able to significantly reduce (by megabytes) ROM code by making it more "efficient."
    I think you're interpreting it as them shrinking the ROM to give some of that memory to the applications. I think they meant it more as making the storage system more efficient so we don't need everything to be in 512 byte blocks, thus not having as much memory bloat.
  11. alee's Avatar
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    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by 4spammers
    Tide me over with something I can get on e-bay for $1-$5? I'm not sure people would be quite as happy with this response if PalmOne were just sending us each a $5 "we goofed" check instead. That said, their acknowledging the problem is a step in the right direction. That's all I see in the SD card gesture...an acknowledgement.
    Obviously it won't satisfy everyone... but given that they need time to put together a ROM update, this buys them some time with the average consumer (which is most likely not a TC member).
    And I'm concerned about the idea of a ROM fix. Isn't that just cutting out functionality?
    Says who? From a high level, there are plenty of different ways they can approach this, and none of them would involve cutting out functionality. Reducing the overhead to me says either, (a) they're going to try to write multiple records into each cluster block, (b) they're going to attempt to use data compression, or (c) they're changing the cluster size.

    My only concern is that these solutions may slow things down. Something to watch for.
    Send it back? I love my Treo 650. It's awesome. But 32 MB is inadequate. Whether you put in a $5 SD card or change the ROM, you'll still be playing the memory game. I love my Treo 650 enough to play the memory game for now.
    Fair enough... but I really hope I don't see you posting 6 months from now that you demand a rebate on the "new Treo 650x" because PalmOne owes you an upgrade. The only freebie you're likely to see is the free SD card and commitment for a ROM update. All your options are available to you now... so use them wisely.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by GregV
    I'll tell you exactly what they were thinking. It's right here.

    If that's what they think is Joe Average User, having the data take up 1MB out of 23 sounds reasonable. Maybe two or three extra apps, and the memory is still plenty for what they think of as typical. However, the 250KB->950KB translation should have set off warning bells about them not upping the memory to 64MB, because it's clearly less usable space, and sometimes dramatically so. They should know that even if most people aren't using their Treos to the hilt, some people are, and they're going to be pissed.
    Forget about "Joe Average User"! What about CORPORATE BUSINESS USERS??? Isn't that what this thing is marketed to??? People like me with 3,150+ Contacts, 930+ Memos, and lots of Business-Related Applications??? And with PIM data, I think that it can't be stored on the SD Card, No?

    Is Palm trying to sell a PREMIUM-PRICED device to AVERAGE JOES? Bad strategy. AVERAGE JOE LIKES CHEAP-PRICED. And nobody wants PREMIUM-PRICED with SKIMPY-SPECS. Customers are not fools. Deliver value or DIE.
  13. #53  
    Maybe I should've said Joe Average Treo User. These stats are probably what they think of as typical Treo usage. I'm sure they're well aware that this isn't for your average cellphone user.
  14. #54  
    More on their thinking. From here:

    This is an estimate of an average user's number and size of records.

    From here:

    We believe there is ample memory in the Treo 650 for new users to store their contact and appointment information as well as email and other applications. We do recognize, however, that there is a small percentage of Treo 600 owners who have almost filled the memory on their device...
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    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gekko
    Forget about "Joe Average User"! What about CORPORATE BUSINESS USERS??? Isn't what this thing is marketed to??? People like me with 3,150+ Contacts, 930+ Memos, and lots of Business-Related Applications??? And with PIM data, I think that it can't be stored on the SD Card, No?
    You are no doubt a power user, but I still don't believe the average corporate user has their device loaded to the hilt like you do.

    IMHO, for the Treo to succeed, it doesn't have to be the ultimate PDA. It doesn't need boatloads of RAM. The Treo's success will be measured by whether it can take users away from RIM. Quite simply, RIM owns the business market with its successful Blackberry line. They have made the difficult transition from status icon (when only the top executives could afford one), to a corporate staple (where everyone who needs one can get one).

    If the Treo 650 can compete with the 7100t and 77xx series Blackberry devices, it has succeeded. The next Treo will be for the heavy hitters like you, and the rest of TC.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gekko
    Forget about "Joe Average User"! What about CORPORATE BUSINESS USERS??? Isn't that what this thing is marketed to??? People like me with 3,150+ Contacts, 930+ Memos, and lots of Business-Related Applications??? And with PIM data, I think that it can't be stored on the SD Card, No?

    Is Palm trying to sell a PREMIUM-PRICED device to AVERAGE JOES? Bad strategy. AVERAGE JOE LIKES CHEAP-PRICED. And nobody wants PREMIUM-PRICED with SKIMPY-SPECS. Customers are not fools. Deliver value or DIE.
    What do you think is the #1 selling smartphone/wireless mobile device in the business corporate market today? And no, it is not the Treo nor the MPX220 nor the P900.

    It is, of course, the Blackberry, which has limited memory, no expansion capability, slow processor, and few third-party applications. So, where is the value for Blackberry?

    People, stop thinking that you are the typical "average joe" user becaue you are not. And that includes you, Gekko.
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    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rome
    It is, of course, the Blackberry, which has limited memory, no expansion capability, slow processor, and few third-party applications. So, where is the value for Blackberry?
    Looks like we're thinking along the same lines.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rome
    What do you think is the #1 selling smartphone/wireless mobile device in the business corporate market today? And no, it is not the Treo nor the MPX220 nor the P900.

    It is, of course, the Blackberry, which has limited memory, no expansion capability, slow processor, and few third-party applications. So, where is the value for Blackberry?

    People, stop thinking that you are the typical "average joe" user becaue you are not. And that includes you, Gekko.
    The Blackberry sells because it has the KILLER APP - the best REAL TIME EMAIL SOLUTION. That's the VALUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    It's Apples vs. Oranges.

    The masses will not pay $650 for a glorified cell phone.
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    #59  
    Right now it shows me using 7.2m of 14m. Address book has 93 records, Datebook has 112 records, Documents has 19 records (I have no idea what this is - will be checking in a few!), Memo Pad has 11 records (doesn't sound right) and To-Do-List has 3 records. Address book is currently using 14K, Datebook - 6K, Documents - 197K, Memo Pad, 8K and to-do-list = 1k. I've owned a pda running palm os since at least 1997 and I attribute the low numbers to periodic reviews of my contacts to weed out folks i no longer keep in touch with. I'm also pretty good at removing memos once i'm done doing whatever it is I wrote them down to do. I'm guessing for someone like me, the memory isn't going to be a big issue. I'm also amazed at all the crap eating up space on my Tungsten/T that I have never used and most likely will never lose. I could probably gain 4M of space easily once I cleared some of this stuff off. The memory no longer concerns me too much, though I do hope they get this rom fix in place by the time i place my order with vienna channels on the 30th. More of a concern to me are reports of poor voice quality transmissions on the 650. This for me will primarily be a phone with my light pda use...


    Quote Originally Posted by GregV
    I'll tell you exactly what they were thinking. It's right here.

    If that's what they think is Joe Average User, having the data take up 1MB out of 23 sounds reasonable. Maybe two or three extra apps, and the memory is still plenty for what they think of as typical. However, the 250KB->950KB translation should have set off warning bells about them not upping the memory to 64MB, because it's clearly less usable space, and sometimes dramatically so. They should know that even if most people aren't using their Treos to the hilt, some people are, and they're going to be pissed.
    1st SFG (A)

    if at first you don't succeed - RELOAD!
  20. #60  
    Yeah, and you beat me by a minute

    I think 650 will be quite successful with the mainstream business users. The data protection feature of the non-volatile memory will outweight the reduced memory capacity deficiency.
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