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  1.    #1  
    I heard that Vienna Channels had not gotten their shipments, and it sounds like Sprint is the only one really shipping these things. Is it possible that Sprint got the first batch, started shipping, and then PalmOne realized that this memory issue is going to bite them in the *** and is delaying additional shipments to "fix" the memory situation?

    If the 32 MB had the same storage as the previous model, then this wouldn't be an issue, but the NVFS apparently is very innefficient and 64 MB would had not even been a doubling. Does anyone think that PalmOne realized this issue in product testing, or did they test it such a vacuum that they completely missed it?
  2. meir602's Avatar
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    #2  
    IMHO Delays are due to incompitence. Which is basicaly the same reason for the memory issue.
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by lnichols
    I heard that Vienna Channels had not gotten their shipments, and it sounds like Sprint is the only one really shipping these things. Is it possible that Sprint got the first batch, started shipping, and then PalmOne realized that this memory issue is going to bite them in the *** and is delaying additional shipments to "fix" the memory situation?

    If the 32 MB had the same storage as the previous model, then this wouldn't be an issue, but the NVFS apparently is very innefficient and 64 MB would had not even been a doubling. Does anyone think that PalmOne realized this issue in product testing, or did they test it such a vacuum that they completely missed it?
    I want some of what you are drinking or smoking
  4. #4  
    I think the reason we don't have wifi & 64 megs of ram is because of the carrier's, remember the carriers control color, user interface, placement of logos and such( read WSJ talking bout vodaphone nov.19th [I think]). The real reason I think we don't have wifi & 64 mb is because of sprint, if they would have included those features sprint would have started charging the advanced vision plan which is an extra 15 bucks like they do for windows smartphones .
  5. Iceman6's Avatar
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    #5  
    I am glad to hear that shipments are being held up. Upgrading the memory is the fastest solution to the memory problem.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by pwat
    I want some of what you are drinking or smoking
    No kidding, do you honestly think that they are going to change out memory at this point?
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by cglaguna
    No kidding, do you honestly think that they are going to change out memory at this point?
    Exactly, if they don't get these phones out this quarter, investors are going to be PISSED. They will probably get a fix out (if possible) around late Feb. Patching the filesystem is prolly no easy tasks. Its like building the house then having to redo the foundation.
  8. #8  
    No way is the memory issue holding up shipment. They only "found out" about it on Friday. They are just slow in getting product out.

    I would seriously doubt that internal memory is going to be added to the 650. They may shorten the life cycle of the 650, and come out with a "660" that has 64 mb soon but now way is there going to be a retrofit of existing 650's Maybe new firmware to change the cluster size (but I doubt that as well.) I'll bet they are trying to program a "zlauncher lite" in house or license zlauncher or similar as a "fix".
  9.    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by cglaguna
    No kidding, do you honestly think that they are going to change out memory at this point?
    Well PalmOne could do this if they percieve the cost of putting out a device that is going to get trashed by reviewers and hurt their sales/market share is more than the cost of a fix. That is the only reason they would fix the memory because they certainly don't care about what user base wants or if they are simply upset. The phone market is very competive and PalmOne can't afford for the 650 to lose market share compared to the 600. They must show growth from model to model if they are going to stay in the smartphone market.
  10. #10  
    This forum is hilarious. Filled with people who think they know more than they really do.

    Whoever think P1 is holding up shipments to double the memory really doesn't know crap about hardware. This isn't a PC -- this is the equivalent of an embedded device.

    You know what they say -- the people who talk the most are the ones who most likely know the least.
  11. #11  
    Believing P1 is going to fix this issue is wishful thinking.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy
    This forum is hilarious. Filled with people who think they know more than they really do.

    Whoever think P1 is holding up shipments to double the memory really doesn't know crap about hardware. This isn't a PC -- this is the equivalent of an embedded device.

    You know what they say -- the people who talk the most are the ones who most likely know the least.
    It is 100% doable. Back in the days of the Palm V and Vx many people got their memory upgraded by a third party company. So I do think it is doable.
    Hopefully we won't have to wait until Palm comes out with the Treo 650x.

    Another thing that I was thinking is that PalmOne made the Treo 650 with a 32MB chip so that a year from now they can sell us the same Treo but with a 64MB chip plus WiFi. PalmOne is saving these two so that on the future Treo 700? we feel like it is a must have upgrade. How happy can you feel about it?

    Al
  13. #13  
    It was decided long ago that Sprint was getting them first. Now people are trying to read something into this. Ridiculous.

    Those who don't buy because of a memory problem will be stepping out of the way so the person behind can get his.

    The 650 is outstanding.
  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy
    This forum is hilarious. Filled with people who think they know more than they really do.

    Whoever think P1 is holding up shipments to double the memory really doesn't know crap about hardware. This isn't a PC -- this is the equivalent of an embedded device.

    You know what they say -- the people who talk the most are the ones who most likely know the least.
    I have not made any statement that they are holding this up for this reason, I was asking if people think it is a possibility. I think you made it clear that you do not think this.

    Also in order to upgrade the "memory", a new higher cap NAND chip (with the Palm config) would need to be installed. From what I have read the RAM is not increased with the new NVFS (The Tungsten T5 has a 256 MB of the NAND and 32 MB of RAM where the Treo has 32 MB of both). Files/applications are pulled from the NAND as needed and put into the RAM (of which only 10 to 12 MB of the 32 MB are available). You can look at the Red Mercury primer at http://www.red-mercury.com/nvfs.html for info on how the NAND works.

    Oh yeah and a Treo does not really fit the definition of an embedded system since it has a UI, and relies on user inputs. It uses embedded systems, but it is not an embedded system.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by acajigas
    It is 100% doable. Back in the days of the Palm V and Vx many people got their memory upgraded by a third party company. So I do think it is doable.
    Hopefully we won't have to wait until Palm comes out with the Treo 650x.
    Based on what knowledge? Using a similar analogy, just because you could screw with the jets on a carburerator, does that mean you can do the same to add horsepower on a fuel-injected engine?

    Quote Originally Posted by acajigas
    Another thing that I was thinking is that PalmOne made the Treo 650 with a 32MB chip so that a year from now they can sell us the same Treo but with a 64MB chip plus WiFi. PalmOne is saving these two so that on the future Treo 700? we feel like it is a must have upgrade. How happy can you feel about it?
    Absolutely wonderful. In fact, I would feel divine, because it's capitalism and free market forces at their best.

    You buy for what it is today. And if it isn't what you want, then don't buy it and wait until they get it to where you'd want to buy it.

    If you buy it and then complain about it, you're sending a mixed message to PalmOne. If no one buys it, then they'll get your message.

    But apparently not everyone agrees with your message....
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by lnichols
    Oh yeah and a Treo does not really fit the definition of an embedded system since it has a UI, and relies on user inputs. It uses embedded systems, but it is not an embedded system.
    Touche!

  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by mbrenner
    No way is the memory issue holding up shipment. They only "found out" about it on Friday.
    They knew about this a lot longer then Friday. The Developer forums have been discussing this (in the T5 context) for a while. The behavior of the new memory would have been known during the design phase. There may be a huge number of incompatents working at that company, but I'm sure the Design and Test Engineering departments were fully aware of this. For whatever reason they proceeded with their product launch schedule.
  18. #18  
    My thought is that the 650 is made exactly the way p1 intended it to be, as their entry-level model in the Treo family. Remember, the 650 is p1's first Treo not second. They just added their touches to the 600 in making it what it should have been all along (sort of a baseline).

    Even though, I don't think they thought the 512 Byte block memory system all the way through and I hope there will be a firmware fix if possible. If not, I am sure that the 700 is ready and waiting for shipment in the spring.
  19.    #19  
    This is starting to sound like they tried to fit the T5 solution into the Treo, but the Treo engineers not knowing enough about the NVFS to realize that 32 MB NVFS is not the same as 32 MB non NVFS. Merger Issue???? Sounds like PalmOne should have used either the 48 MB or 64 MB NAND chips and then we would at least have what we have now with the 600. I guess I should reserve my judgement in full on the memory until I have the unit in hand. Right now I have over 12 MB free on the 600. I pretty much just use the PDA functions, e-Mail, Web, and Pocket Tunes. Don't have enough time to get into too many other apps.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by lnichols
    This is starting to sound like they tried to fit the T5 solution into the Treo, but the Treo engineers not knowing enough about the NVFS to realize that 32 MB NVFS is not the same as 32 MB non NVFS. Merger Issue???? .
    Nope...stupidity issue . Yes, they used the same memory solution in the 650. Saves quite a bit of money if shared components can be used. PalmOne isn't that large of a company. The DVT and QA Engineers probably worked on both devices. A few may specialize in RF/Signal (the phone part) but that's more of an integration test activity once the Design Verification Test folks finish up.

    IMHO, PalmOne knew exactly what the behavior was and decided to take a gamble once it hit GA. If there was minimal static from users, they could slide by. If the noise level got really bad, it's time to hire a PRPRPR $company$ $to$ &$quot$;$spin$&$quot$; $it$.

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