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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by pzarquon
    D'oh! I was very impressed with Kinoma Player EX, and quickly registered it and Kinoma Producer, and started playing MP3s and watching episodes of the Daily Show.
    When you say you used Kinoma Player 3 EX to play MP3s, do you mean to play them directly, or after converting them in Kinoma Producer? I don't believe KP3X can play MP3s.

    By the way, I wrote up a quick comparison of KP3X with MMPlayer and PocketTunes up on this thread:

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...ad.php?t=65421

    It answers some of the questions here, but not the most interesting one -- how does the file size compare of a Kinoma movie (MPEG-4 "Simple" video/ AAC audio) with an MMplayer movie (xvid video/ mp3 audio)? I believe MMPlayer supports more advanced video encoding than KP3X, so I think that MMPlayer video files will be smaller and MMPlayer a better choice for watching full length films. I'd love it if anyone here could offer a side by side comparison trying to encode the same piece of video for both players, one with Kinoma Producer, the other with virtualdub & xvid.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by scottreo
    Run the program once and then try loading movies for it. Hotsync is much slower than straight card reader. Kinoma expects movies to be in their own folder so you might load a small one with hotsync and then place others in that same folder with card reader.
    Thanks. I did load and exit Kinoma Player EX after reinstalls and softresets in case something got jammed in an invisible cache somewhere. Still no luck. And I definitely do use a card reader to move files (I don't trust HotSync to not try and change things)... PALM/programs/KINOMA on the SD card.

    Quote Originally Posted by alexis_gallaghe
    When you say you used Kinoma Player 3 EX to play MP3s, do you mean to play them directly, or after converting them in Kinoma Producer? I don't believe KP3X can play MP3s.
    Quite right, sorry. I converted them to MP4s with Producer. I actually lowered the bitrate quite a bit -- a 3MB MP3 became a 1MB MP4 -- but the sound quality was decent enough for me.

    ...how does the file size compare of a Kinoma movie (MPEG-4 "Simple" video/ AAC audio) with an MMplayer movie (xvid video/ mp3 audio)? I believe MMPlayer supports more advanced video encoding than KP3X, so I think that MMPlayer video files will be smaller and MMPlayer a better choice for watching full length films.
    That's quite possible. I registered and used mmplayer first, on the strong recommendations of people here. And with Virtual Dub and a lot of trial and error - and I do mean "a lot" of trial and error - I could get files converted, downsampled, scaled, etc., to something that would run well in mmplayer on the T650.

    Then I tried Kinoma Player, which - though probably much less efficient as to file size - was one-two-three step easy for a lazy newbie like me. The UI was clean and simple (I'm not much of a "skinner"), and Kinoma Producer had only a handful of settings to confuse me versus what I had to keep straight with mmproducer/VirtualDub.

    I did notice that while AVI files got smaller, some MOV files actually got larger after Kinoma Producer was done with them. And again, a "pro-level" video processor could probably get a big file down to almost nothing. But for my merely "wannabe power user" status, I think I'll pick ease of use.

    FWIW, I did get a 30-minute AVI to 100MB, so even with Kinoma I think I could get a movie onto a 512MB SD card. I'm more a 'clip' and 'TV show' length person, anyway.
  3. #43  
    With MMPlayer files (100 bit rate, mono, 15fps, etc) and defaults in Kinoma 3 I'm getting approx 1MB per minute for the 600. Kinoma 2 was more like 2MB per minute. I'm sure you can tweak eitherone quite a bit.
  4. #44  
    So ... If I install the Kinoma app on to the SD Card under PALM/Programs/Kinoma, where do I put music and movies? and can I have separate folders by artist? For example I'd love to use PALM/Programs/Kinoma/Music for all my music and PALM/Programs/Kinoma/Movies for all my movies and then within each of those folders have subfolders with artist or movie type, etc... Sorry if this is a silly question, but I'm having a hard time with the demo getting it to find the music that I've put on the SD card... and it only seems to work when I have everything in the root directory ... which is annoying... because I have other stuff on the card as well...
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by scotttreo
    With MMPlayer files (100 bit rate, mono, 15fps, etc) and defaults in Kinoma 3 I'm getting approx 1MB per minute for the 600. Kinoma 2 was more like 2MB per minute. I'm sure you can tweak eitherone quite a bit.
    These are useful numbers. But are you talking about Kinoma 3, or Kinoma 3 Ex?
  6. #46  
    Kinoma iteslf should be internal memory or in PALM/Launcher with your other apps.
    Movies and music are moved to PALM/Programs/Kinoma by hotsync so place yours there as well.
    Just tried and it does support scanning folders (such as Music) inside PALM/Programs/Kinoma but all files will be displayed together in the list. (i.e. it doesn't show you different directories, it just does a scan)

    Make sure to press the icon in the upper right so it shows ALL file types. If you click on other icons on the top it will only show those formats (i.e. drawings won't show movies or music)

    If you still have problems try install the app normally and using hotsync to place a small file.
  7. #47  
    As I understand it there is a Kinoma player 3 and player 3 EX. 3 is free, 3 EX is not.
    3 EX supports MP4, ACC, and QT Movies

    See link for details:
    http://www.kinoma.com/compare-player.html

    There is only one new producer which is Kinoma 3 Producer. This handles creating MP4 and a few other formats including support for Kinoma 2,

    Sizes:
    30 minute TV show with producer :
    34 MB MP4 Average default 120 kbps 15 fps
    56.7MB MP4 high quality default 200kbps 15 fps
    45.2MB MP4 Basic modified MP4 in pdb format 120 kbps
    67.2 MB H.263 basic default (Playable on Player 3 free mode)
    I didn't try CinePac but from past experience it woudl have been close to 60 MB
    QuickTime
    29.6 MB QuicktimePro to 3G format upped to 120 kbps 176 x 144
    There's conflicting info on their site if the free player supports 3G
    Comparison chart says it does but FAQ is different.

    Encoding for MMplayer Divx with 100 kbps yielded approx 30 MB with Mono and low audio rate.
    Note that Kinoma producer can be changed to wide range of settings for video and audio. Most of the above are the defaults for the Treo 600. treo 650 files would be larger.

    http://www.kinoma.com/support.html
    has FAQ and manuals
  8. #48  
    Thanks for the info. I just did some benchmarking myself, converting four different 30-second .avi xvid clips into .mp4 clips with Kinoma Producer. My conclusions: xvid is usually better, but not always, especially not when the video is simple and you set Kinoma Producer to use a low bitrate (80 kbps) in the neighbhorhood of the bitrate used in the original xvid clips. I couldn't see the diffrence in visual quality.

    I'm enclosing a spreadsheet with the gory details.

    I think that Kinoma Producer with KP3EX is quite competitive with MMPlayer based only on encoding efficiency. Also, the Producer software really is very convenient. But the downsides are still bigger: the producer software is rather expensive, and there is no one-stop solution for ripping DVD's like Pocket DVD Studio that rips them to correctly sized .mp4s.
    Attached Files Attached Files
  9. #49  
    As many of you will know, I'm a huge fan of movies/video on my Treo.

    To date my favorite apps have been the Pocket-DVD and MMPlayer combo which allowed me to convert my DVD's in a snap. However, finding an app to easily and quickly convert all the other video content on my PC became a priority as I found that using DrDiVx was tedious and slow and I consequently used it relatively little.

    The new Kinoma 3.0 Producer and Player have finally resolved this issue for me. I can throw pretty much any video that I have at Producer and it will nicely output a small .mp4 file optimized for playback on the Treo 600 or 650. I then use Kinoma Player to watch these as MMPlayer does not support .mp4 playback.

    To put in perspective how user-friendly I found Producer to be, I can tell you that in 6 months I had converted maybe 10 of my video files for playback on MMPlayer using DrDiVx while now thanks to the simple batch conversion process in Producer I have almost finished converting my entire library of a couple of hundred video files. In fact I now have so much video content formatted for my Treo that I've dedicated a full 1GB card just for this.

    The Kinoma apps definitely get two huge thumbs up on my part.

    If you're interested you can get a $5 discount (10%) on Producer and also $5 discount (25%) on Player 3EX here: Video To Go for your Treo with Kinoma
  10. #50  
    Just to let you know, TC now has a review of Producer and Player up. You can also get $5 off either product if you use "TreoCentral5" as the coupon code when buying.
    Last edited by JHromadka; 12/14/2004 at 05:52 PM.
    James Hromadka, TreoCentral Editor
    Houston - EST. 1836
  11. #51  
    The coupun isnt working for me. Has anyone got it to work?
  12. #52  
    Just out of curiosity, Wanderman, what are you now doing about DVD's? Are you going PocketDVD -> KinomaProducer ?

    And have you noticed any appreciable difference in quality or file size compared to DrDivX? My benchmark was limited to 30 seconds snippets, since I was using the trial version of Producer.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by alexis_gallaghe
    Just out of curiosity, Wanderman, what are you now doing about DVD's? Are you going PocketDVD -> KinomaProducer ?

    And have you noticed any appreciable difference in quality or file size compared to DrDivX? My benchmark was limited to 30 seconds snippets, since I was using the trial version of Producer.
    Alexis,

    For DVD's only I continue to use PocketDVD+MMPlayer

    For all other video content I now use Kinoma Producer+Kinoma Player

    I could re-convert the PocketDVD .avi output file to .mp4 using Producer but I don't like the idea of wasting time with a second unnecessary conversion.

    Overall I have found the .mp4 file output from Producer to be comparable to DrDivX but as I mentioned I consider Producer to be 10 times easier to use and this has now become my conversion tool of choice.

    I hope this helps.

    Cheers, W.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Amuka
    The coupun isnt working for me. Has anyone got it to work?
    They gave me the wrong code originally. The correct code is TreoCentral5
    James Hromadka, TreoCentral Editor
    Houston - EST. 1836
  15. #55  
    Is it necessary yo buy producer 3 if I have producer 2? I have a 650 now, and havent put Kinoma on it yet because some said it was buggy. Now 3ex is supposed to work, but can I get that and still use producer 2 to encode for the 3ex player? I dont want to spend more money than I have to.
  16. #56  
    For what it's worth, after a lot of hairpulling, and about a week of regret over paying for Kinoma software, I fixed the inexplicable hanging of video playback by disabling the "Resume Playback" option in Preferences. While this means every video starts from the beginning every time I select it, at least it plays videos again, rather than seizing up and requiring a soft-reset no matter the file.

    I have no idea why this is, or where Kinoma puts its "last played position" information (since in my uninstall-reinstall dance, I thought I cleared everything KNMA), but hey. I can watch TV over lunch again.

    By the way, with ZLauncher, I am able to store and run Kinoma Player on the SD card, and play media from the SD card. I agree with the above poster that the inability to create and organize with subfolders is a drawback - but IIRC, mmplayer wasn't exactly user friendly in the file-management area, either.
  17. #57  
    I haven't had problems with Kinoma 3ex on 600 but I've been keeping it in main memory.

    Producer 3 can create MPEG 4 files in additon to the old style (Kinoma 2) files.
    I'm not sure how much of an advantage 3ex player is if you're not going to encode file for it. Check their site for upgrade info if you have version 2.
  18. #58  
    Apologies if this has been covered, I haven't seen a post on it, but what are the advantages of using Kinoma Producer/Player over converting videos with Quick Install and watching on the included app? I've only tested a couple of short clips (1 avi from my camera, and 1 wmv) which worked great. Is it possible to do the same with a longer video (e.g., tv show, dvd)? I don't see anyway to bookmark or hold the stopping place other than the pause button but what are the other differences?
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by wanderman
    Alexis,

    For DVD's only I continue to use PocketDVD+MMPlayer

    For all other video content I now use Kinoma Producer+Kinoma Player

    I could re-convert the PocketDVD .avi output file to .mp4 using Producer but I don't like the idea of wasting time with a second unnecessary conversion.

    Overall I have found the .mp4 file output from Producer to be comparable to DrDivX but as I mentioned I consider Producer to be 10 times easier to use and this has now become my conversion tool of choice.

    I hope this helps.

    Cheers, W.
    Can I ask why you're continuing to use Pocket DVD/MMPlayer when ripping and watching DVDs? Faster, smaller files, easier, better quality, etc?
  20. #60  
    Sounds like PocketDVD does extract and resize/reformat for the 600 in one step?
    On the Mac this requires 2 steps anyway. Extraction and then another to resize and reformat for 600. So for this I use kinoma. No need to have 2 players with 2 different contents.
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