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  1.    #1  
    Received this from SlashDot. What's up?


    +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
    | Filesystem Problems with the Treo 650s |
    | from the early-adopters-always-get-the-shaft dept. |
    | posted by CmdrTaco on Sunday November 21, @12:11 (Handhelds) |
    | http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/21/1632209 |
    +--------------------------------------------------------------------+

    Kaisa Tarasov writes "It turns out [0]PalmOne's new Treo 650 is shipping
    with a major problem that's causing first adopter users and developers to
    [1]cancel their orders in droves. The new Treo, along with the Tungsten
    T5, utilizes a [2]new FAT based nonvolatile file system. Not only is the
    new system much slower, as the data has to be loaded into a SDRAM chip
    before running, but in this filesystem PalmOne switched from using
    directly addressable storage, to [3]storage addressed in 512 Byte blocks.
    This has caused many files to swell in size - up to 500% in some cases
    (such as the address book). [4]Users, already flustered with the small 23
    MB of available memory, when trying to sync their old data onto the new
    device are discovering that their old data does not fit on the new Treo.
    What does PalmOne do?"

    Discuss this story at:
    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=04/11/21/1632209

    Links:
    0. http://www.palmone.com/
    1. http://discuss.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=62773
    2. http://www.red-mercury.com/nvfs.html
    3. http://engadget.com/entry/1234000133020888/
    4. http://discuss.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=62502
  2. #2  
    droves?
    Felipe
    On the road to 5,000 posts
    Life is what happens between Firmware releases.
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by Felipe
    droves?
    from Webster:

    Drove(s)
    1. a group of animals driven or moving in a body

    2. a large number : CROWD


    I think they are referring to #1
    ELR
    >> Drop by! <<

    Avatar courtesy of ButtUglyJeff!
  4. #4  
    This is very bad PRPRPR $and$ $I$ $hope$ $PalmOne$ $is$ $watching$ $this$ $marketing$ $fiasco$ $unfold$.

    However, after trying to read some of the very technical responses on slashdot, which were way over my head, there does seem to be some hope that a patch of some sort may be able to resolve this...hopefully that it...
    _________________
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  5. #5  
    There are only two solutions:

    Brute Force: Replace the 32MB chip for a 64MB. Faster, Cheaper, less painful and give time to the developers to work on a fix.

    Programming Force: Work on a OS patch that will fix the problem. Very Slow, Expensive, lot's of complications and can introduce more bugs to the OS.

    I would go Brute Force for now, don't you think?

    Al
  6. ls3mach's Avatar
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    #6  
    You forget one choice.


    The Palm Way : Do nothing.
  7. #7  
    I see Brute Force as the only solution and "The Palm Way" will probably be the end result.

    If the issue involves how data is moving from the file system to a SDRAM chip there is no way you can speed up that bottle-neck without changing out the hardware. Even if they gave 100MB RAM it would not resolve the bottle-neck without hardware changes there.

    As far as using Programming Force:
    Maybe if you change the way storage is addressed so it's not in 512 Byte blocks that might cause less space to be taken up, but performance still will be slower than the 600 because you are still going across the SDRAM chip.

    I have a defective 600 that I was hoping to upgrade with a 650... Now I'm thinking maybe I'll just get another 600... I'll wait and see, but this does not look good. The only people that will enjoy the 650 are NON-Power users.

    I was ready for the 23MB of RAM issue and was saying some time back that more space was needed. I had come to terms with that, but not these new problems.

    I say the REAL FIX for this is BETTER COMPETITION!!! It always fixes everything . And I really hope competitors see this as an opportunity and make the most of it for the good of the entire Smartphone industry.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by ls3mach
    You forget one choice.


    The Palm Way : Do nothing.
    hehehttp://discussion.treocentral.com/im...es/biggrin.gif
  9. #9  
    Problem is that even if they do upgrand the NAND to 64 MB or larger to accomadate for more storage, the new NVFS archictecture still uses 32 MB RAM (even in the T5) to actually run the apps as they are pulled from the NAND. Of the 32 MB of RAM, only 10 to 12 MB can be used by applications and their associated files. I don't think this will affect most users since I have never seen a 10 to 12 MB palm app or db, but I could see where Navigation software would tank with larger map data.

    The T5 has a 256 MB NAND, but only 55 MB of that can be used by apps, and 140 or 160 MB is treated as "External Storage", which means it basically looks like and SD Card to the OS. The T5 still runs the apps on a 32 MB RAM chip. I wonder if this is the same architecture being considered for the new Cobalt OS and if it is maximized for this type of architecture.
  10.    #10  
    Could this be "shoehorned" into the 650?

    Quote Originally Posted by lnichols

    The T5 has a 256 MB NAND, but only 55 MB of that can be used by apps, and 140 or 160 MB is treated as "External Storage", which means it basically looks like and SD Card to the OS. The T5 still runs the apps on a 32 MB RAM chip. I wonder if this is the same architecture being considered for the new Cobalt OS and if it is maximized for this type of architecture.

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