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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rome
    There are many other posts here on TC that prove for 99% of Treo 650 customers, the memory is most likely not an issue. (How many have 10,000+ contacts?) And for the remaining 1%, there are already possible solutions like zlauncher.
    I think a Siverado only had something like 800 contacts and he had to use zlauncher as a workaround. Surely that's not close to 10,000. I think that also numerous people have come across the problem and not just 1% unless over a 1000 people on this board got their Treos.

    I personally have something less than 100 contacts, but I have little or no memory left on my Treo 600 because I keep a lot of email on hand. I can probably get by with just deleting more e-mail and the zlauncher solution. It's still going to be much more limiting than the Treo 600 was.

    If you look at this board many people are very close to their limits on their Treo 600. And lets not get into another thread of what a typical Treo user is.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    And what is Apple now? Basically a glorified MP3 hardware maker.
    The masses and their ignorance never cease to amuse me.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rome
    You know what? I am going to sue Microsoft unless they give me a $200 rebate. Bill Gates has promised me a virus-free OS for years, and all they have done so far is to ask me to download more patches week after week. Windows is broken and we have a fiasco here. Windows get bigger and more resource hungry every year, and the price keeps going up. I remeber that the original MS DOS cost less than $40, and now a copy of XP Pro cost me $200!!!! And to add insult to injury, during all these time, PC hardware price has dropped from $5000 to less than $1000!!!

    Microsoft must be doing some thing illegal to get away with sh*t like this. Oh, isn't Microsoft a convicted monopoly???
    If this was an attempt at sarcasim it failed as everything that said was true. I believe you are well within your rights to sue Microsoft. I'd like to see where they represented their product as being immune to viruses though.
  4. #24  
    I think what dalai is forgetting is that every purchase is a compromise.

    What do I get with the 650 that I didn't get with the 600?

    BT
    hi res screen
    brighter screen
    65,000 color screen
    better keyboard
    new home and menu buttons
    better camera
    docs to go 7
    faster processor
    removable battery
    no loss of data for things stored on phone
    basic video camera
    versamail
    misc. upgrades to os (such as alarms on todo's)

    what do I lose?

    approximately 7 megs of ram (23 downsized to usable 16)

    Do I think it's worth the extra $$? Absolutely.

    Clue
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    my post was dead serious.

    I can back it up with concrete examples.

    as far as business and common sense, I wi' be glad to take you to task on that as well, and let the TC community.

    Lama, ignore the tardanic responses from the synaptically challenged folks.. Some sheeple don't get it, although I agree F1 will never do anything.
    Okay.

    "F1 neither has the management saavy, intelligence, nor execution ability to do anything other than take the money and run to the next version."

    What do you think of Jeff Hawkin then? Isn't he the CTO? Are you implying that he is a dumb ***? And name the multibillion global company that recently withdrew from the NA and EMEA PDA market.

    "F1 is acting just like Apple in the 80's - take you loyal customers and throw them under the bus."

    Do you really think that's why Apple lost to the OS war to Microsoft?

    "And what is Apple now? Basically a glorified MP3 hardware maker."

    What's wrong with that? Seen Apple's stock price lately? Do you need to be a computer hardware maker to be considered successful in business?
  6. #26  
    DaLia Lama,

    I'm with you man. Note that PalmOne people watch these threads and post here as if they were regular users. What you need to do is to take it somewhere bigger than TC. My advice is to write a complain letter or a Treo 650 memory issue report and take it to PC magazine, CNET, Brighthand.com, and any other wellknown places where more people can be aware of it. Burning you energies here won't do anything. Another thing you can do is to send your complains to all cellphone carriers as they are the ones who buy them first. You can also go to the sprint stores and make people aware of the issue. Have you done anything like that? If you need my support let me know. We need to get join forces. Now, who is with us? Let us know.

    Al
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cluemeister
    I think what dalai is forgetting is that every purchase is a compromise.
    What was the compromise of going from the Treo 300 to the Treo 600? I don't think one spec was reduced.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    What was the compromise of going from the Treo 300 to the Treo 600? I don't think one spec was reduced.
    Higher price, smaller screen and smaller keyboard. Hardware specs are not the only relavent features on an electronic product.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by acajigas
    I'm with you man. Note that PalmOne people watch these threads and post here as if they were regular users. What you need to do is to take it somewhere bigger than TC. My advice is to write a complain letter or a Treo 650 memory issue report and take it to PC magazine, CNET, Brighthand.com, and any other wellknown places where more people can be aware of it. Burning you energies here won't do anything. Another thing you can do is to send your complains to all cellphone carriers as they are the ones who buy them first. You can also go to the sprint stores and make people aware of the issue. Have you done anything like that? If you need my support let me know. We need to get join forces. Now, who is with us? Let us know.
    I agree. Its natural to assume that the editors of T|C and MTDN probably wont support you the way that some other sites will. They have a vested interest in the success of the product that they have built a site around. (which there is nothing wrong with)

    Brighthand.com / Palminfocenter.com are probably your best shot. CNET is ... well ... CNET, and PC Mag only published once a month and tends to be a bit behind in everything. (and it would probably be buried in the mag itself)

    Good luck.
  10. #30  
    what the hell does the F in "F1" mean????
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalai Lama
    Sigh. OK, one last clarification. We are all well aware of the fact that a 100 GB hard drive doesn't really offer you 100 GB of usable space. However, if I buy one from Seagate, or Western Digital, or Quantum, or Hitachi, or IBM, I expect to get at least roughly the same amount of usable drive space.
    Actually, no, you NEVER get the advertized space on such a drive as long as you're on Windows or Unix. In fact Dalai Lama, you have been putting up with the same "misrepresentation" that you accuse Palm1 of for years.

    Remember that NTFS, FAT32 and the file storage systems in Unix divide the drive up into allocation units, or blocks. Depending the size of the drive, those blocks can get pretty large, typically 4KB and sometimes up to 16k each. Yes, a 1 KB file can truly take up to 16KB of space on a drive.

    Don't beleive me? Then try this in Windows:

    1. on your desktop, right click on any blank space. Select "new" then select "text document."

    2. Open that text document and type a handful of characters. as little as 1 character will do. Save the file.

    3. Now right click on the file and select "properties." You will see that the "actual size" and "sixe on disk" values don't match. Infact, proportionally, a LOT of space was just wasted on your drive.

    Symantec and other disk drive utilities will often analyze disk usage for you and tell you how much slack, or wasted space due to unutilized space on allocation units, your drive has. Sometimes you lose as much as a couple of gigabytes this way on every drive you have.

    Got any other analogies, Dalai Lama? This one didn't pan out, sorry. In fact, you've pretty much inadvertently shed some light on why the memory in the Tre650 and T5 are down they way they are. The truth is that in all NV memory, allocation units have been a universal way of organizing such data. I'm not defending Palm1's implementation of this, as you definitely need more memory to make this scheme and its drawbacks not so noticeable to the end user (goodness knows you haven't missed the few gigabytes you've lost on your 40-250 GB HD).

    And yes, you're still being rabidly obsessed. And no, telling people to "just skip this post" doesn't excuse it.
    Last edited by scaredpoet; 11/21/2004 at 11:27 PM.
  12. #32  
    Sure, more memory would be great. Same for WiFi, a 5 megapixel camera and a felatio simulator option. However, even as it stands in its imperfect state the 650 is by far the best smartphone out there for my needs and the needs of the vast majority of the target audience for that matter.
  13. #33  
    Hey Everybody let's play a game.

    If you work for PalmOne clap your hands...T.R.E.O....If you work for PalmOne clap your hands...T.R.E.O...If you work for PalmOne and you think the TREO is perfect then your posts will really show it If you work for PalmOne clap your hands...T.R.E.O...!!!

    Al
  14. #34  
    I think the main issue here is with T600 users who want to upgrade to the T650. The "misrepresentation" here will be when the T600 user who had enough room for their current apps and data tries to synch to the T650 and finds out that they are short of memory even though the new Treo is listed with the same 32 mb. That is the issue. The comments about how memory is incorrectly measured in hard drives just confuses the issue.

    Those that say that you can always not buy the Treo 650 are, of course, right. But I think Dalai Lama wants to see the Treo succeed and is offering a way for Palm to save face with the Treo fans and keep this fine product going on for a long time. Personally, I will be upgrading from a T180 so probably will be starting over entering data & apps anyway, but I would be upset if I anticipated a straightforward T600 to T650 synch and found my memory eaten up before I got through my current data.

    An "upgrade" should allow moving your stuff forward painlessly.
  15. #35  
    My arguments have been very simple. If the memory problems on the Treo are a huge issue to you and it makes the unit unuseable for you, then you need to treat it like a defective product and send it back. Now. If you keep the Treo and just whine and whine about it on message boards, devising all manor of stupid conspiracy theories, then you've accomplished nothing and have failed to truly show displeasure to Palm1. Nothing registers as well as having the units go back and having refunds issued.

    Or... does it really not bother you that much, and you can't do without the 650? If that's the case, then maybe it's not such a huge issue after all and you need to re-evaluate how much of a fit you're throwing. No one can NOT survive without an unuseable, defective product, because if the product is truly defective and unuseable, then it doesn't matter whether you have it or not, right?

    Second, let's not forget folks, Palm1 has already given feedback saying they're working on the problem. What else do you need? They've acknowledged it... further bellyaching does little to advance the issue because it's already gone as far as it can at this point. Really the only thing that will speed up the process at this point is to have more developers work on code to fix this. If you code, then stop whining and start coding! And if you don't code, then let the developers do their job.

    Finally. nothing demonstrates more how totally useless an argument has gotten to be by seeing people accuse the "pro-Treo" folks of working for Palm1. The "you work for Palm" statement is another way of saying "I have no valid arguments left, so I'm going to find an excuse for why you're figthing back so that I feel better about myself, even if it's WRONG."

    I LIKE my Treo 650, and I don't work for Palm. In fact, even if I had the knowledge and skillset to develop Palm OS products, I would NEVER work for such a bunch of spoiled, immature brats as demonstrated here. No wonder Palm1 "messes up" so much... it's a thankless job that no one of competence wants to do!
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by OneDeviceGuy
    The comments about how memory is incorrectly measured in hard drives just confuses the issue.
    No, it underscores it very clearly. There was a demand for nonvolatile solution for memory storage. And current models for NV storage give you THIS. The result? People got NV storage finally, but it came with a price, and now some people are crying because they can't have their cake and eat it, too.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by scaredpoet
    Second, let's not forget folks, Palm1 has already given feedback saying they're working on the problem. What else do you need?
    How about a fix?

    How about having the initial foresight so that situation never happens?


    I agree that if you dont like the damn phone you should send it back, but an expert user group that holds a company's feet to the fire by doing a little "bellyaching" is a good thing.

    I would suggest that we quit whining about a group that is drawing attention to a ... uh ... "flaw" in an effort to get it fixed. Without this group, your T650 might have been designed without bluetooth or without that supernice screen.

    (and now I will quit whining about people whining about people whining...)
    Last edited by RWerksman; 11/22/2004 at 12:12 AM. Reason: make message more clear
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by scaredpoet
    No, it underscores it very clearly. There was a demand for nonvolatile solution for memory storage. And current models for NV storage give you THIS. The result? People got NV storage finally, but it came with a price, and now some people are crying because they can't have their cake and eat it, too.
    People should be able to have their cake and eat it to -- or at least be able to upgrade to a restaurant (read: phone) where they can.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by RWerksman
    How about a fix?
    Your world must be so easy to live in. If a driver has bugs, in your world I guess you can just go "ZAP! It's fixed" and it's all done, right?

    They said they are working on it. That means the problem is complex and doens't have an immediate soltuion, but one is under development. If you're not happy with that, there's a return policy. Use it.

    How about the foresight as to it never happening?
    *sigh* For the third time. Once upon a time, people wanted nonvolatile memory, being VERY unhappy with the idea that if your Treo's battery dies, you lose the data on there, sometimes permanently if you haven't had a chance to sync up.

    The immedaite fix to this is to use industry standard techniques for near-line and off-line storage. That involves allocation blocks, which often use up a little more space than is necesary. Ineligant, but given the demand, it's an off the shelf solution that could be implemented immediately rather than working something more complex into the OS, which would mean longer development times (and we all saw how impateitn everyone was to get the damn thing).

    Now, this is THEORY, and I'm basing this theory on what I know about static memory. The actual reasons could be very very different. But based on what I've seen, the above explanation is the most logical one.

    Should it have been done? Probably not, and I'm not going to defend that it WAS done. But people wanted it, and they wanted it NOW. So this is what they got as a result. Now, those same people aren't happy, and I'm not so sure they really ever will be no matter what Palm does.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by RWerksman
    People should be able to have their cake and eat it to -- or at least be able to upgrade to a restaurant (read: phone) where they can.

    http://www.sprint.com/business/produ...lPcsPhones.jsp

    Well looky looky. Another "restaurant" has been open for quite a while. Or are you unhappy with them too, thus illustrating my point that some people won't be happy with anything at all?
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