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  1. #121  
    At the risk of interrupting the lovefest...

    One point that I have been unable to resolve in my own little mind is the attitude that the target customer base for the Treo 650 is not the enthusiast (read geek) crowd, but the business executive. Quite frankly, if I only use my Treo for a contact list, I am an ***** to pay $650. The PRICE does not match the "no need for more memory because the main customer will never use it" line. This phone/PDA/smartphone/whatever is PRICED for the enthusiast (read geek) customer base -- not Ma and Pa soccer family. If the Treo 650 cost $350 - $400, I might buy the line from P1 that this is not their bleeding edge tech device.

    I do not know about anyone else on here, but $650 per year for a new Treo is more than I would care to spend. However, I will spend it if I am purchasing a device that gives me more of what I want. If I could upgrade to the Treo 650 for $350, I might go ahead and do it and deal with the memory issues. I cannot justify (in my own vacant head) spending $650.

    [BTW, I realize whether I upgrade or not does not really matter to anyone else, but I would wager I am not the only Treo enthusiast (read geek) that feels this way.]
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by jimbear
    At the risk of interrupting the lovefest...

    One point that I have been unable to resolve in my own little mind is the attitude that the target customer base for the Treo 650 is not the enthusiast (read geek) crowd, but the business executive. Quite frankly, if I only use my Treo for a contact list, I am an ***** to pay $650. The PRICE does not match the "no need for more memory because the main customer will never use it" line. This phone/PDA/smartphone/whatever is PRICED for the enthusiast (read geek) customer base -- not Ma and Pa soccer family. If the Treo 650 cost $350 - $400, I might buy the line from P1 that this is not their bleeding edge tech device.

    I do not know about anyone else on here, but $650 per year for a new Treo is more than I would care to spend. However, I will spend it if I am purchasing a device that gives me more of what I want. If I could upgrade to the Treo 650 for $350, I might go ahead and do it and deal with the memory issues. I cannot justify (in my own vacant head) spending $650.

    [BTW, I realize whether I upgrade or not does not really matter to anyone else, but I would wager I am not the only Treo enthusiast (read geek) that feels this way.]

    Palm is trying to market this as a business phone. More sales, lower expectations and decreased support costs. A very shrewd decision - businesses are where the real money is.
  3. #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Zen of Palm
    Palm is trying to market this as a business phone. More sales, lower expectations and decreased support costs. A very shrewd decision - businesses are where the real money is.
    OK, but what business will pay $600 for a phone with so many free/cheap ones available?
  4. #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by jimbear
    OK, but what business will pay $600 for a phone with so many free/cheap ones available?

    Please list for me all of the phones that can do what the Treo 650 can do.
  5. #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Zen of Palm
    Please list for me all of the phones that can do what the Treo 650 can do.
    Any Palm with bluetooth, combined with a bluetooth phone (yup, Sprint has one through telesales).

    It's the only straightforward way to get sufficient internal memory in a Palm "phone" without other workarounds or hacks. Of course, 2 phones is a "workaround," and naturally many apps written specifically for the Treo 600/650 are not going to run on this combo.

    Maybe some entrepreneur will come to the rescue with a warranty-wrecking memory upgrade service for the Treo 650 (256MB sounds good to me!). Until then, here's a memory from the past that was fun to reminisce over.. Seems PalmOne hasn't really learned much in the 5 years since:

    http://www.palmpilotupgrade.com/about.html

    http://www.geek.com/hwswrev/palmpilot/efigpalmv8.htm
    Treo 755s in good condition available on ebay for $50-$75. No need to pay for insurance or buy a Pre.
  6. #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by DrDoom
    ...P1 is NOT going away. They consistently deliver the best PDA/Phone products on the market. Experts (Walter Mossberg, anyone?) say it. Periodicals (Handheld Computing, anyone?) say it. And best of all, users (you know, MONEY, anyone?) say it. Name me another smartphone that comes close to outselling the Treo, let alone actually does it! You can't because they don't exist. Do some users have legitimate gripes with regards to the 650? Sure, but no one else on the market has anything even close. After reading all the negative reviews and complaints about the memory etc., I went and checked out the PPC6601, or whatever it is. I was acually think about jumping ship. You know what I realized playing with it there in the Sprint store? Well, despite the fact that I DESPISE PPC, it doesn't matter because they (the manufacturers of that phone) still got it WRONG!!!! Is it closer? Sure, but still no Treo. Will someone eventually get something close eneough to compete in my mind? I'm sure they will, but unless its as elegant, as efficient, and as cool, I don't think P1 has much to worry about.

    I am, as many of know, one the the T 650 "Returnies", but I must go on record that IMO the T600-650 form factor is withour Peer in the current market place. My 6th 600 is working flalwelessly for months now. Again IMO the 600 (and 650, when it's fixed) is the "Best" buisness tool on the market today, it gives me the ability as a "Road Warrior Salesman" to be anywhere in the continetal US and still carry on my buisness. My response time to my clients is almost instananeous, either by voice, email or sms. I carry my pricelist with me in Doc to Go along with technical and pertinent information that I might need during the course of any buisness day.

    The Treo 6xx is a Wonderful concept and beautiful designed product overalll. It is the iPod of the the smartphones.

    I returned my 650 for only one reason, I cannot, will not go through the pain and aggrevation that I did with the 600. I am sitting on the sidelines anxiously waiting for the "FIX" and will gladly jump in again.

    Please PalmOne make it soon!!!!
  7. #127  
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by The Zen of Palm
    Please list for me all of the phones that can do what the Treo 650 can do.


    Quote Originally Posted by Joad
    Any Palm with bluetooth, combined with a bluetooth phone (yup, Sprint has one through telesales).

    It's the only straightforward way to get sufficient internal memory in a Palm "phone" without other workarounds or hacks. Of course, 2 phones is a "workaround," and naturally many apps written specifically for the Treo 600/650 are not going to run on this combo.

    Maybe some entrepreneur will come to the rescue with a warranty-wrecking memory upgrade service for the Treo 650 (256MB sounds good to me!). Until then, here's a memory from the past that was fun to reminisce over.. Seems PalmOne hasn't really learned much in the 5 years since:

    http://www.palmpilotupgrade.com/about.html

    http://www.geek.com/hwswrev/palmpilot/efigpalmv8.htm


    In other words there are no "phones that can do what the Treo 650 can do".
  8. #128  
    I am also a road warrior Sales person and made it two years on the same Treo 600 barely since it was really acting up the last few months-earpiece was gone for six months but not a big deal since I had a headset or used speaker phone. I have the 650 and it looks to be working fine. I need to understand the DOCS to GO feature since I would also like to have my price lists in their--how did you get them loaded from a word or PDF file?
  9. #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Zen_of_Palm
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by The Zen of Palm
    Please list for me all of the phones that can do what the Treo 650 can do.






    In other words there are no "phones that can do what the Treo 650 can do".
    That's no *quite* true.

    I own a Pocket PC, and it can do everything the 650 can do, and maybe a little bit more. Have you played some of the Pocket PC games on that screen?

    Also, some stock trading platforms release software only for the Pocket PC now - so depending on who you use, it's PPC only.

    I'm not saying it's better, just different. And most everything can be accomplished.

    Also the PPC will use a memory card like internal memory. Install all programs and data there natively and run them like normal. Slap a 1Gb card in there, and you have a 1GB device.

    Is it accomplished in a different manner? Well, yes. Most different OS's are.

    Treo's are *much* easier to use 1 handed and you have to use the stylus less. That's for sure.

    But don't get *too* cocky that the Treo has no competition. I have both devices, and I can tell you that it certainly does.
  10. #130  
    Oh, and multi-tasking on the PPC is years ahead of the PALM. So PALM cannot do the multi-tasking that PPC can.

    Not that it's always a big deal since you can't have seperate windows open - but I like not having to completely "close" one program to open another.

    Internet Explorer will keep downloading a page while you go off and check your calendar. Blazer stops everything as soon as you exit Blazer.

    Like I said, the Treo does indeed have competition.

    And i'm not bashing the Treo. I love the Treo.
  11. #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by jimbear
    OK, but what business will pay $600 for a phone with so many free/cheap ones available?
    The $600 everyone keeps quoting is the fallacy. PalmOne is into Sprint's expansion program. No one getting new service, or new lines of service, or even 18 months old, pay retail for this baby. It is $400 phone at best, and that's the general range of what they pay. Sprint wants this to expand their market, and as usual, doesn't give a rat's a$$ about existing customers. If they're geeks like me, they'll pay the price; if not, they can go to Treocentral and whine.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  12. #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    The $600 everyone keeps quoting is the fallacy. PalmOne is into Sprint's expansion program. No one getting new service, or new lines of service, or even 18 months old, pay retail for this baby. It is $400 phone at best, and that's the general range of what they pay. Sprint wants this to expand their market, and as usual, doesn't give a rat's a$$ about existing customers. If they're geeks like me, they'll pay the price; if not, they can go to Treocentral and whine.
    How many 650 users are brand spanking new users that have never owned a Treo 300 or 600?

    Being that the 600 hs roughly the same capabilities of the 650, sans better screen and bluetooth, wouldn't any business or person that *needed* or *wanted* a phone of the Treo 6xx caliber, already have one?

    I've used both the 650 and 600 extensively over the last two weeks, and going back and forth, capability-wise, is not that big a difference to be perfectly honest.

    The screen and keyboard are much better on the 650, but don't allow me to do anything I can't on the 600. Yes, the 650 makes it slightly easier (seeing more data on the screen), but if people needed a device of this type, they could have had it 14 months ago.

    I wonder how many are truly new subs.
  13. #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodNamesRTaken
    How many 650 users are brand spanking new users that have never owned a Treo 300 or 600?
    <waving hand in the air...>
    .
    .....
    MarkEagle
    .....<a href="http://discussion.treocentral.com/tcforum/index.php?s=">TreoCentral</a> | <a href="http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php?s=">VisorCentral</a> Forum Moderator - Forum Guidelines
    .....Sprint PCS Treo 650
    .....God bless America, my home sweet home...
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    #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoodNamesRTaken
    Being that the 600 hs roughly the same capabilities of the 650, sans better screen and bluetooth, wouldn't any business or person that *needed* or *wanted* a phone of the Treo 6xx caliber, already have one?
    As desirable as it looked, the lack of BT and high-res screen made the 600 a no-sale to me. I really wanted to like the Treo 600, but it was no match for a Tungsten T3 and a Bluetooth phone. Now that the 650 has it, my order is in for a GSM 650. Still to be seen if the 650 answers my needs.
  15. #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by alee
    As desirable as it looked, the lack of BT and high-res screen made the 600 a no-sale to me. I really wanted to like the Treo 600, but it was no match for a Tungsten T3 and a Bluetooth phone. Now that the 650 has it, my order is in for a GSM 650. Still to be seen if the 650 answers my needs.
    Well, that's great and that makes two of you, but i'm sure you're aware that I am talking about the buying public as a whole. Like, around a million units.

    I'm curious as to what the percentage is for all Treo buyers, not for individuals on TC to raise their hand individually because that means next to nothing.

    I wish we could make or break the company individually, but that's not the case.
  16. #136  
    Quote Originally Posted by Larrydann
    I am also a road warrior Sales person and made it two years on the same Treo 600 barely since it was really acting up the last few months-earpiece was gone for six months but not a big deal since I had a headset or used speaker phone. I have the 650 and it looks to be working fine. I need to understand the DOCS to GO feature since I would also like to have my price lists in their--how did you get them loaded from a word or PDF file?
    Larry

    I had someone email in xl format the Companys' Pricelist, then just opened DocsTo Go and hit the + sign to add a file, located it my folder highlighted it and hit enter. It then appears in the Doc to Go desktop version and the next time you sync, make sure you have "Documents to Go" set for Synchronize

    Good Luck
  17. #137  
    My comments on..
    1. P1 is too little, too late, too expensive.

    While I do think that they can be more aggressive in product development, you also have to understand that P1 isn't Nokias and Dells of the world. I'm sure P1 would also like to be able to release a whole line of Treos with sub-200 smartphones to 600 flagship with all the bells and whistles to make you the envy of geeks everywhere, but they've got to priortize and try to do best with what they have/can afford. It hasn't been THAT long since Treos stopped P1's cash burn. It hasn't been THAT long since P1 got a bit of handle on supply chain management and production to be able to supply working Treos in volume. Besides, it's not the feature set that P1 should be most concerned about. It's reliability. What good is having a whole list of latest features if the end product is buggy or not useful (like Treo 600 camera)? The feature set (other than the memory issue.. I don't know why they didn't opt for larger memory) is okay. Blackberries are more successful than Treo not because it's got the latest whizbang features. They should work on making current Treos as reliable as possible, on driving down production cost, then releasing more versions of Treos (including Windows mobile based ones...)

    2. Crippled BT is P1's fault (cause they didn't stand up to Sprint).

    Competition in mobile phone market is fierce, and nowadays even Nokia cannot refuse carrier's demands. P1 cannot afford not to accomodate whatever the carrier requests.

    3. P1 is content to sit idle and milk on their former successes.

    This is somewhat (or very) true in the PDA market. PDA market is shriking. Or more accurately, the whole PDA market is shifting to smartphones or other more powerful devices. I think P1 has decided to invest much more on Treos than on their PDA line, and I don't think they are particularly interested in producing most powerful PDAs anyway. The money will be probably better spent on the Treo line. But on Treos, I think P1 will be (have to be) more aggressive. We all know that the managment has talked about having a family of Treos for a while, and they also intend to lower blended ASP 5-10% every year for the next three years or so. I don't think we'll see other members of the Treo family at least until late 2005, (I think Treo 650 rollout in US and expansion to international markets need to be done first) but I think it will happen.

    4. P1 must release cheaper Treo soon!

    I think P1 should be able to release slightly modified (i.e. more reliable and cheaper to produce) version of Treo 600 relatively quickly if it really wanted to. But then again, the question becomes whether such model would cannibalize higher end model sales. And releasing a lower end model that's not that much differentiated when the 500 phone is selling quite well doesn't make that much sense. Of course, P1 can make something that's much more differentiated from Treo600/650, i.e. more consumer-friendly features, smaller, slimmer, more fashionable design, and data features well integrated with the specific carrier's offering without enterprise options. That will be great, but the problem is that P1 would be going into Nokia and Samsung's turf, and P1's chances of success in that market is questionable considering the competition and the fact that many people don't consider wireless email a necessity and wince at the idea of carrying around and talking into a PDA-sized phone. The demand for Treo/Blackberry kind of devices in the corporate market is very good at this time, and it's a market that P1 has a lead and it's a market that has quite a bit of market opportunity for a company of P1's size. Of course, it would be great if P1 can come up with a great consumer smartphone for busy mom/dads/college kids, but I think their focus would be on the corporate market at least for now.
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