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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80
    This is just complete nonsense.

    I can't imagine (after my 25+ years in product development, engineering management, technologty sales and senior management) ANY tech company throttling their sales in the manner described. There is just NO WAY. They are putting these things out there as fast as they can make them. Their resources are limited like everyone else's so they are bringing out one model first. You have to go for the max units you can while the price is high (= max profit) and before the competition catches up.

    There is NO WAY this is an easy device to manufacture - especially if they are using contract mfg (and they absolutely must be). The turn around time on problem resolution is long (back and forth to Asia), complicated and subject to all sorts of cultural and translational issues. This device is difficult to manufacture with its form factor, the connectors, fine pitch boards, RF shielding etc... I guarantee you that the manufacturing engineers are spending a lot of 18 hour days right now. If they had to do this with more than one model at a time, it is almost a certainty that BOTH would be a mess.

    Making the GSM version is similar, but it has issues all its own. Not the least of which is testing. Since P1, like any company, can't hire infinitely large engineering groups, some of this has to be done in series. You get one model out, then concentrate on the derivatives. Because Sprint is their biggest customer, guess which one comes first?

    Give these guys a break. They are designing stuff on the cutting edge. Sure, they make some mistakes, but they are getting it largely right and doing a pretty good job of filling the channel. The memory thing is a problem that will probably have some level of a software fix to help mayb hardware too. The memory size was probably picked about a year ago and they - no doubt - had a difficult time trying to peg the cost of the DRAM and FLASH chips that they had to pick (they were heading into outer space at that time0. Pick wrong and you add a TON of cost to your product. Even if they had the opportunity to put in a bigger one (socket space on the board), they had to commit to production capacity more than 16 weeks ago. 16 weeks ago both the DRAM price (parity between 256Mb and 512Mb devices in DRAM) and FLASH prices was much different. FLASH prices started crashing about 8-12 weeks ago and DRAM prices are in huge turmoil right now due to the DDR->DDR2 technology conversion (trust me, I am very close to this situation).

    So, they had to pick and they had to take a risk averse approach in a way that wouldn't destroy the company's profitability. There is no activity of a tech company that is more expense, hairy, and financially scary than a new product roll out of an expensive product in volume. Guess wrong and you are history.

    They had to put big money up to procure parts, advertising, seed units etc... and they have to do it all within the available financial resources of the company. There are VERY FEW tech companies that are not still working their way out of the post 9/11 financial blood bath. So, you have to be careful.

    So, give these guys a break. Its ok and real to ask for more but it needs to be done in a realistic light. I mean, these things have only been in the general public's hands for a freaking week to 10 days!

    J
    I am really interested in finding out what the people do for a living that disagree with this statement. I do not have 25 years of experience as does John but I have 12. I work for the FAA as a electrical engineer. We do hardware and software modifications for a FAA radar.

    I know when we do a major software modification, it takes at least six months to write, test, etc. In todays software environment, ISO, CMM, etc. (process improvement, configuration management) it is VERY dificult to get a piece of software out the door. quickly. This is a Gov. branch and I only have Air Traffic as a customer so our target audience is not nearly as diverse as Palms

    As far as hardware modifications, they can take easily a year! We deal with contractors as well in the production areas, and yes even with years of experience in manufacturing, something always slows you down.

    I understand that the FAA is not a profit driven company, but, we still have the same hurdles to get over as palm.

    I just think some people do not understand whats involved in getting a product out the door.

    Giv'em a chance. Everyone seems to be very happy with their 600s. I would expect that palm will make us all happy with our 650s

    Thanks!
  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    So we try to keep the discourse civil
    You consider the 2nd sentence (among others) of THIS post:

    -- http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...7&postcount=93

    civil?

    What was it you said about something like this in that "treocentral.com" forum?

    Shall I post THAT link, too?
  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    ...we are not pressured by Palm...
    Please qualify that "we" - other moderator(s) have posted, as you are aware, that they do indeed receive pressure from both PalmOne and Sprint w.r.t. TreoCentral content.
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by SeldomVisitor
    Please qualify that "we" - other moderator(s) have posted, as you are aware, that they do indeed receive pressure from both PalmOne and Sprint w.r.t. TreoCentral content.
    We being all moderators. I don't know how running the site actually goes.
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by SeldomVisitor
    other moderator(s) have posted, as you are aware, that they do indeed receive pressure from both PalmOne and Sprint
    To the best of my knowledge, no moderator here has ever been pressured by anyone, including the TC ownership.
    .
    .....
    MarkEagle
    .....<a href="http://discussion.treocentral.com/tcforum/index.php?s=">TreoCentral</a> | <a href="http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php?s=">VisorCentral</a> Forum Moderator - Forum Guidelines
    .....Sprint PCS Treo 650
    .....God bless America, my home sweet home...
  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by SeldomVisitor
    You consider the 2nd sentence (among others) of THIS post:
    Didn't see that first time around. Cleared it up. Thanks.
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkEagle
    To the best of my knowledge, no moderator here has ever been pressured by anyone, including the TC ownership.
    To this point, remember when the 650 article was yanked from the front page, the discussion forums were never touched.
  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by DrDoom
    How about this one? You, AND Zen, are idiots of the "Seldom Visitor" calibur! I can understand your disappointment with the 650, hell I may even share it to a certain extent, but to accuse the T/C staff of some sort of veiled "conspiracy" takes all of your legitimate posts and throws them into the "idiots to ignore" category. You're so angry about this problem that you're going to attack Marcus, Michael, or Kurt? Take a nap people! This is hands down one of the best, most informative, most FREELY moderated boards on the web! Head on over to Howard if you don't believe me, and make that same claim about the moderators over there. Your post will be gone in an hour. And you know what? That's fine because its their playground. Marcus, Michael, Kurt and the rest of T/C's staff created this one, but they've certainly allowed it to be OURS. Speak intelligently, please. Perhaps, they, like so many of us, realize that while, yes, the memory was a blunder for a large portion of this community, it isn't as huge an issue as you, and the rest of the "Burn Your Palm" Brigade would like to believe. To use a VERY onscure analogy, I had a problem with the fact that Peter "grew" web-shooters in the Spiderman movie, rather than inventing them like he did in my beloved comics. I spent hours ranting to my comic shop owner and anyone else who would listen. In fact, it bothered most "hardcore" comics fans. You know what? It didn't stop it from being the number one grossing movie of the year, TWICE!! Same thing here. ***** all you want, but don't take potshots at the T/C staff, alright? 'Nuff said.

    Can someone explain to me why DrDoom wasn't "banned" for his insults to the afforementioned individuals?

  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Zen of Palm
    Can someone explain to me why...
    As moderators, we're only accountable to marcus.

    I find it curious that your quoted passage (in a post made TODAY @ 1:06pm EST) DOESN'T contain the revisions that were made to it YESTERDAY.
    Last edited by KRamsauer : Yesterday at 11:34 AM.
    (don't even try to tell me that the forum software is to blame!)

    As far as I'm concerned, this is nothing other than inflammatory drivel, and IT WILL NOT BE TOLERATED ANY LONGER!
    .
    .....
    MarkEagle
    .....<a href="http://discussion.treocentral.com/tcforum/index.php?s=">TreoCentral</a> | <a href="http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php?s=">VisorCentral</a> Forum Moderator - Forum Guidelines
    .....Sprint PCS Treo 650
    .....God bless America, my home sweet home...
  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Zen of Palm
    Can someone explain to me why DrDoom wasn't "banned" for his insults to the afforementioned individuals?

    Don't worry, we've explained no insults are tolerated, even when they "support" moderators. As you can see, I edited it.
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkEagle
    As moderators, we're only accountable to marcus.

    I find it curious that your quoted passage (in a post made TODAY @ 1:06pm EST) DOESN'T contain the revisions that were made to it YESTERDAY.
    (don't even try to tell me that the forum software is to blame!)

    As far as I'm concerned, this is nothing other than inflammatory drivel, and IT WILL NOT BE TOLERATED ANY LONGER!

    Mabe it was "un-edited" by some Way-Back Time Machine software. Just set the Way-Back mode to "Yesterday".


    "IT WILL NOT BE TOLERATED ANY LONGER!"

    Oh dear.
  12. #112  
    Wow. Go away for a few days and stuff just explodes! Anyway, not sure why I felt the need to resort to insults, I never have before, so for that, I apologize. Having said that, I still agree with what I said. I have enjoyed these forums for a long while. Yet, everytime I come on there are people who seem to be vehemently opposed to Palmone (Seldom), the 650 (MikeC, The "ZEN" of Palm"), etc. It got on my nerves and I snapped. Again, I do apologize. Freedom of speech is a beuatiful thing. I fought for it as a younger man. Luckily for me it works both ways. You can hate me for what I said about you on a personal level all day long if you like, that doesn't change the fact that several times the "palm apologist" nonsense was spouted from people participating on this board. It's crap, and you all know it. Believe me, the T/C staff slapped my wrist and made it quite clear that I had stepped over the line. Quite frankly my initial thought was that they were coming down on me BECAUSE they wanted to be sure their detractors couldn't claim they were letting it go because I was defending them. As far as banning goes, I'm gonna get BANNED for a slip that has never happened before? That seems a little harsh. Suffice it to say, I am sorry I lost my temper, but I stand by what I said. Leave the staff alone, there's no conspiracy.
    Go here if you're tired of being .
    It'll be fun.
  13. #113  
    [QUOTE=mikec]Dr.Doom,

    Wow, what wrath. I hope you feel like better, like a man of the South defending the honor of his women. [End Quote]

    Oh, and one other thing. THAT's not insulting?
    Go here if you're tired of being .
    It'll be fun.
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by DrDoom
    Wow. Go away for a few days and stuff just explodes! Anyway, not sure why I felt the need to resort to insults, I never have before, so for that, I apologize. Having said that, I still agree with what I said. I have enjoyed these forums for a long while. Yet, everytime I come on there are people who seem to be vehemently opposed to Palmone (Seldom), the 650 (MikeC, The "ZEN" of Palm"), etc. It got on my nerves and I snapped. Again, I do apologize. Freedom of speech is a beuatiful thing. I fought for it as a younger man. Luckily for me it works both ways. You can hate me for what I said about you on a personal level all day long if you like, that doesn't change the fact that several times the "palm apologist" nonsense was spouted from people participating on this board. It's crap, and you all know it. Believe me, the T/C staff slapped my wrist and made it quite clear that I had stepped over the line. Quite frankly my initial thought was that they were coming down on me BECAUSE they wanted to be sure their detractors couldn't claim they were letting it go because I was defending them. As far as banning goes, I'm gonna get BANNED for a slip that has never happened before? That seems a little harsh. Suffice it to say, I am sorry I lost my temper, but I stand by what I said. Leave the staff alone, there's no conspiracy.
    Doomsy: I was JOKING. Chill out. This is a freakin' internet forum about smartphones! I've never seen so many people walking around with poles up their a$$es as this site recently. I don't remember things being like that here last year. Bottom line is people (EVERYONE) need to stop taking themselves so seriously.

    Note: The above post by The Zen of Palm was a serious post.
  15. #115  
    I can joke. I CAN!!! Damn it, I CAN!!!!!!!! And another thing. Lay off my pole, pal! I like it right where it is.
    Go here if you're tired of being .
    It'll be fun.
  16. #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by DrDoom
    I can joke. I CAN!!! Damn it, I CAN!!!!!!!! And another thing. Lay off my pole, pal! I like it right where it is.




    The Zen of Palm will disappear at post 100
  17. #117  
    No one hates you...and my comments were just teasing back at your post.

    I don't know why you lump me into the Treo haters group.

    - Anyone on TC likes the Treo, or wants it to be all that it can be.

    - I have purchased over 200 Treos (will be upwards of 300 by next quarter), so I am probably a bigger booster than most here.

    - Despite my investment (in devices, not stock) I have said, will continue to express my views of P1...both good and bad.

    As the original person that was "insulted" (I didn't call it that, others did), I accept your apology.

    And I apologize if my teases back were offensive.

    Okay...everyone group hug :-)
  18. #118  
    <group hug>
  19. #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    Okay...everyone group hug :-)
    I love you guys!

    Well, not really.
  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    <group hug>
    eww.

    someone smells.
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