Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 137
  1. pmdied's Avatar
    Posts
    409 Posts
    Global Posts
    556 Global Posts
    #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    Again, I disagree.

    I do not lump Real Estate agents into the "geek" crowd, but they tons of contacts, and will hit the wall fast with the 650.

    Blackberries are not a good example, as they are basically email devices.

    People using Treos do a lot more, because the can do more.
    I have posted a few responses regarding to memory issue. I am a realtor and certainly do not have a fraction of the tech knowledge that most of the members of this board possess. Therefore, I do not believe that business people like myself, with very large contact bases and document archives fall into the "geek" catagory whose only needs for large amounts of RAM are to store frivilous applications or jpegs of their dog. Even Palmone's website has a software/business solution for realestate so its obvious that they cater to this community. To me and realtors/sales people like us more memory equals more room for business relevant info, not necessarily more gaming apps or personal use apps. Posting from my Treo.
    ReMax Properties Unlimited
    Morristown NJ
    pmdied@gmail.com
    www.peterdieduardo.com
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by Beryl
    Hopefully, P1 will pull a rabbit out of their hat.
    You know what -- despite my frequent critism of P1 lately, deep down I am really rooting for the company. I dont want to see them fail in the slightest.

    I have a Treo 600 right now. I am planning on getting a Treo 650.

    I had hope, and faith in the company that the T650 would solve all of the T600 problems and thensome. Overall, I'm not sure it did. To be honest, I'm crushed*, and not sure what to do.

    Being from Pittsburgh, I guess you can say that I'm used to failure. US Airways, the Steel industry, etc... I dont want to throw this company in with the others, but I haven't found anything really to tell me they are pointed in a direction unsimilar to the others.

    Damn that screen is beautiful though...


    (* -- as crushed as someone can be about a phone. Really disappointed is more accurate.)
    Last edited by RWerksman; 11/24/2004 at 07:53 PM.
  3. pmdied's Avatar
    Posts
    409 Posts
    Global Posts
    556 Global Posts
    #83  
    The high res screen is certainly tempting and I can't wait to take advantage of mapping software, picture viewers(for properties), enhanced camera: all of these improvements will add to my business aspects but they don't address the core app for sales people-contact management.
    ReMax Properties Unlimited
    Morristown NJ
    pmdied@gmail.com
    www.peterdieduardo.com
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    I do disagree.

    They have them; they are just controlling the release, as has been confirmed by several sources, even at F1. It's not the same; hotcakes are ready, and then gone. In this case, 650s are ready, but being handed out artificially slowly.
    This is just complete nonsense.

    I can't imagine (after my 25+ years in product development, engineering management, technologty sales and senior management) ANY tech company throttling their sales in the manner described. There is just NO WAY. They are putting these things out there as fast as they can make them. Their resources are limited like everyone else's so they are bringing out one model first. You have to go for the max units you can while the price is high (= max profit) and before the competition catches up.

    There is NO WAY this is an easy device to manufacture - especially if they are using contract mfg (and they absolutely must be). The turn around time on problem resolution is long (back and forth to Asia), complicated and subject to all sorts of cultural and translational issues. This device is difficult to manufacture with its form factor, the connectors, fine pitch boards, RF shielding etc... I guarantee you that the manufacturing engineers are spending a lot of 18 hour days right now. If they had to do this with more than one model at a time, it is almost a certainty that BOTH would be a mess.

    Making the GSM version is similar, but it has issues all its own. Not the least of which is testing. Since P1, like any company, can't hire infinitely large engineering groups, some of this has to be done in series. You get one model out, then concentrate on the derivatives. Because Sprint is their biggest customer, guess which one comes first?

    Give these guys a break. They are designing stuff on the cutting edge. Sure, they make some mistakes, but they are getting it largely right and doing a pretty good job of filling the channel. The memory thing is a problem that will probably have some level of a software fix to help mayb hardware too. The memory size was probably picked about a year ago and they - no doubt - had a difficult time trying to peg the cost of the DRAM and FLASH chips that they had to pick (they were heading into outer space at that time0. Pick wrong and you add a TON of cost to your product. Even if they had the opportunity to put in a bigger one (socket space on the board), they had to commit to production capacity more than 16 weeks ago. 16 weeks ago both the DRAM price (parity between 256Mb and 512Mb devices in DRAM) and FLASH prices was much different. FLASH prices started crashing about 8-12 weeks ago and DRAM prices are in huge turmoil right now due to the DDR->DDR2 technology conversion (trust me, I am very close to this situation).

    So, they had to pick and they had to take a risk averse approach in a way that wouldn't destroy the company's profitability. There is no activity of a tech company that is more expense, hairy, and financially scary than a new product roll out of an expensive product in volume. Guess wrong and you are history.

    They had to put big money up to procure parts, advertising, seed units etc... and they have to do it all within the available financial resources of the company. There are VERY FEW tech companies that are not still working their way out of the post 9/11 financial blood bath. So, you have to be careful.

    So, give these guys a break. Its ok and real to ask for more but it needs to be done in a realistic light. I mean, these things have only been in the general public's hands for a freaking week to 10 days!

    J
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80
    There is no activity of a tech company that is more expense, hairy, and financially scary than a new product roll out of an expensive product in volume. Guess wrong and you are history.

    ...

    So, give these guys a break. Its ok and real to ask for more but it needs to be done in a realistic light. I mean, these things have only been in the general public's hands for a freaking week to 10 days!
    I think they have a break regardless because of the limited competition in the field.
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80
    This is just complete nonsense.

    <SNIP>

    There is NO WAY this is an easy device to manufacture - especially if they are using contract mfg (and they absolutely must be). The turn around time on problem resolution is long (back and forth to Asia), complicated and subject to all sorts of cultural and translational issues. This device is difficult to manufacture with its form factor, the connectors, fine pitch boards, RF shielding etc... I guarantee you that the manufacturing engineers are spending a lot of 18 hour days right now. If they had to do this with more than one model at a time, it is almost a certainty that BOTH would be a mess.

    Making the GSM version is similar, but it has issues all its own. Not the least of which is testing. Since P1, like any company, can't hire infinitely large engineering groups, some of this has to be done in series. You get one model out, then concentrate on the derivatives. Because Sprint is their biggest customer, guess which one comes first?

    Give these guys a break. They are designing stuff on the cutting edge. Sure, they make some mistakes, but they are getting it largely right and doing a pretty good job of filling the channel. The memory thing is a problem that will probably have some level of a software fix to help mayb hardware too. The memory size was probably picked about a year ago and they - no doubt - had a difficult time trying to peg the cost of the DRAM and FLASH chips that they had to pick (they were heading into outer space at that time0. Pick wrong and you add a TON of cost to your product. Even if they had the opportunity to put in a bigger one (socket space on the board), they had to commit to production capacity more than 16 weeks ago. 16 weeks ago both the DRAM price (parity between 256Mb and 512Mb devices in DRAM) and FLASH prices was much different. FLASH prices started crashing about 8-12 weeks ago and DRAM prices are in huge turmoil right now due to the DDR->DDR2 technology conversion (trust me, I am very close to this situation).

    <SNIP>

    So, give these guys a break. Its ok and real to ask for more but it needs to be done in a realistic light. I mean, these things have only been in the general public's hands for a freaking week to 10 days!

    J
    I disagree with several of your statements:

    - First of all, HTC (Palm's manufacturer) is VERY experienced in this kind of device. Much of the best Windows smartphone hardware is made by them. They aren't some backwoods manufacturer and to pretend there are communication/language difficulties with such a major company is absurd. And this is 2004 - we can communicate via telephone, teleconference, fax, and in person (remember that great invention: air travel?) pretty easily.
    - Secondly, this is merely an EVOLUTIONARY product. Palm made very minor changes to the Treo 600. It didn't reinvent the wheel. Adding Bluetooth, a high res screen and a cheaper type of memory should not create chaos. Especially if you had a WHOLE YEAR to make those changes.
    - The GSM version is almost identical. It's simply a matter of swapping out (off the shelf) radio modules and designing the board to accept the SIM. Again, the Treo 600 provides a pretty good template. The only reason GSM Treo 650 aren't here yet is because Palm gives Sprint a few months of exclusivity because Sprint kept Handspring (and later Palm) alive by supporting the Treo all along. Don't bite the hand that feeds.
    - Memory is dirt cheap and has been for a while. A 64 MB chip of "real" RAM would not have cost Palm significantly more than the 32 MB of "silly" RAM that Palm ended up chosing. Why they would gamble on trying to save a couple of bucks on an unproven setup when they had a standard, bulletproof architecture that had been around for years is a mystery. Companies that are on thin ice should make safe bets. Save the experiments for the low end stuff or when you have a fully developed lineup + can afford to see a model blow up in your face. (Can you say "Sony in 2003"?)
    - Palm's running out of "breaks". The Treo design is now out there for everyone to copy. Parts and designs can pretty much be picked "off the shelf" and the big manufacturing companies are going to start cranking out Treo clones for anyone with the money and an OS to put on them. What's Palm going to do if, say pa1mTwo floods the market with a bunch of cheap TreoClones™? Palm cuts their price to match and kiss profits goodbye. Kiss profits goodbye and so much for R + D. Lack of R + D leads to things like the Tungsten 5 and the m130.

    I think a lot of us are now skeptical that Palm has the ability - or desire - to innovate. The innovative Treo design they inherited fom Handspring is starting to smell EOL.
  7. #87  
    JohnJ80, for someone with 25+ years experience in the industry, you seem woefully out of touch on device manufacturing, software design, market positioning, and other things that P1 needs to be on top of.

    Zen was right on his points...this is not rocket science. To make an error that the memory/file system) is the same as a NASA engineer using English instead of metric - it just should not happen, it basically incompetence, and has disasterous results.
  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    Zen was right on his points...this is not rocket science. To make an error that the memory/file system) is the same as a NASA engineer using English instead of metric - it just should not happen, it basically incompetence, and has disasterous results.
    Disasterous? Considering a majority of users will neither know nor care, I think that may be a bit harsh. As far as I can tell, no one is going to die.
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    Disasterous? Considering a majority of users will neither know nor care, I think that may be a bit harsh. As far as I can tell, no one is going to die.
    I second.... this is a problem, not a catasrophe that will affect a majority of simple users...

    That said, it does need to be address and I wouldn't be surprised if the ROM-update had a Power-run like utility bundled with it.

    -M
  10. #90  
    Disaterous from the stand point that P1 can ill afford questionable quality issues on the 650. if the phone remains as is ,it's simply a matter of time that the fat memory issue looms large.
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    Disasterous? Considering a majority of users will neither know nor care, I think that may be a bit harsh. As far as I can tell, no one is going to die.
    No, no one's going to die, but a lot of people are now going to think twice about plunking down $650 for the Treo 650. Or any other future Palm branded smartphones, for that matter. People like me. People who make the decisions about what hardware is deployed in our companies. You can tell Palm they have now definitely lost the sale of at least 200 Treo 650. Small potatoes? Maybe. But I doubt I'm the only one who's cancelled Treo orders based on this fiasco.

    Is the 650 worth $650? Only time will tell.

    Another thing: maybe it's just me, but recently it seems like we're seeing a lot of apologist posts from Treocentral staff. I realize a lot of Palm's negative press recently stemmed from postings here at Treocentral and that Palm must be more than a little peeved about what's happened. So, did Palm ask you to fall in line and become better cheerleaders? Did Palm voice any displeasure towards Treocentral regarding what's happened here recently?

    I found the statement you attributed to Palm quite interesting. Is this a press release or a statement specifically given to Treocentral for publication to put out the flames?

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "palmOne implemented a non-volatile file system (NVFS) in the new Treo 650 because of the strong benefits it provides: preserving data and applications if the battery runs down, and the ability to change the battery on the fly. The tradeoff for these benefits is that the NVFS uses additional overhead, which results in records on the Treo 600 taking up more space when transferred to the Treo 650.

    We believe there is ample memory in the Treo 650 for new users to store their contact and appointment information as well as email and other applications. We do recognize, however, that there is a small percentage of Treo 600 owners who have almost filled the memory on their device, and they will likely have a problem upgrading to the Treo 650 because of the reduced effective memory size in the new file system. Fortunately, there is a relatively straightforward solution: Treo 600 owners can move applications and files to an SD card before beginning migration to a Treo 650. This should make the upgrade process go more smoothly.

    We understand that this is not an optimal solution for our power users, and palmOne is committed to providing a great experience for all our users. Therefore, we will work to improve the user experience by doing the following:



    Work on a system software (ROM) upgrade that will increase memory use efficiency to allow users to recapture most of the NVFS overhead space currently lost to them; and



    Make available a free 128MB SD expansion card to Treo 650 purchasers on request to help with memory management until the ROM upgrade becomes available . (Details on this program will be posted on the support site in early December.)"
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------


    How hard would it have been for Palm to put out the Treo 650 with the same 128 MB RAM as the Tapwave Zodiac 2, a copy of BackupMan included in the ROM ($10) and a 128 MB SD card (probably $10 in bulk quantities)? If Cobalt ships without a full-featured backup app, Palm deserves to die a slow and horrible death.
  12. #92  
    I would agree with Zen; there seems to be a lot of apologists among the TC staff...a bit odd.
  13. #93  
    How about this one? [snip - KR]I can understand your disappointment with the 650, hell I may even share it to a certain extent, but to accuse the T/C staff of some sort of veiled "conspiracy" takes all of your legitimate posts and throws them into the "[people]to ignore" category. You're so angry about this problem that you're going to attack Marcus, Michael, or Kurt? Take a nap people! This is hands down one of the best, most informative, most FREELY moderated boards on the web! Head on over to Howard if you don't believe me, and make that same claim about the moderators over there. Your post will be gone in an hour. And you know what? That's fine because its their playground. Marcus, Michael, Kurt and the rest of T/C's staff created this one, but they've certainly allowed it to be OURS. Speak intelligently, please. Perhaps, they, like so many of us, realize that while, yes, the memory was a blunder for a large portion of this community, it isn't as huge an issue as you, and the rest of the "Burn Your Palm" Brigade would like to believe. To use a VERY onscure analogy, I had a problem with the fact that Peter "grew" web-shooters in the Spiderman movie, rather than inventing them like he did in my beloved comics. I spent hours ranting to my comic shop owner and anyone else who would listen. In fact, it bothered most "hardcore" comics fans. You know what? It didn't stop it from being the number one grossing movie of the year, TWICE!! Same thing here. ***** all you want, but don't take potshots at the T/C staff, alright? 'Nuff said.

    [bracketted stuff snipped / added by KR]
    Last edited by KRamsauer; 11/26/2004 at 10:34 AM.
    Go here if you're tired of being .
    It'll be fun.
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by DrDoom
    How about this one? You, AND Zen, are idiots of the "Seldom Visitor" calibur! I can understand your disappointment with the 650, hell I may even share it to a certain extent, but to accuse the T/C staff of some sort of veiled "conspiracy" takes all of your legitimate posts and throws them into the "idiots to ignore" category.
    also known as the TinFoil Hat crowd.

    think about it - The treo 650 has bluetooth! radio waves!!!! those who own a 650 are being BOMBARDED with radio signals that are SUBLIMINALLY telling them to APOLOGIZE for palm! you MUST put on your tinfoil hat to PROTECT yourself!! hurry!
    Paul Theodoropoulos
    <a href=http://www.anastrophe.com>www.anastrophe.com</a>
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Chupacabra
    Samsung is one of the worst offenders for vaporware. I think they're now up to three Palm OS phones and counting that have been "announced" and never released. I got a Treo 600 after giving up on Samsung releasing their "Next Big Thing" last year. HTC (who I believe makes the Treo 650) makes a lot of Windows smartphones also. All a company needs to do is ask HTC to produce a phone for them and then, "BOOM" they've got one almost overnight. No R+D hassles, no year-long waits. If Palm thinks they can keep putting out minor upgrades a year at a time and maintain any lead on their competitors, they're nuts.
    if you think moto takes a long time to get phones out, just follow samsung phones then. they have had many nice ideas for palm based flip phones but none of them have materialized for the gsm market. the treo 650 even though it is not a flip will be the best palm powered phone for a while. unless microsoft develops a treo 650 with their software
    Naveen

    Current:Cingular 8525 w/Faria R32

    Next Phone:
    Something from HTC because Palm sucks, so I want a Touch Pro, Touch HD, or a Treo Pro.
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Zen of Palm
    Another thing: maybe it's just me, but recently it seems like we're seeing a lot of apologist posts from Treocentral staff.
    I'm getting more than a little perturbed at statements like this.

    Why would volunteer moderators with absolutely no vested interest in TC (or P1) be labeled as apologists? Where did this conspiracy theory come from?

    Personally, I resent the implication that we're nothing more than marketing puppets!

    I don't even have a 650 yet (it's due to arrive Monday). I haven't stated anything pro or con about the device because I have absolutely no first-hand knowledge of it. If my experience turns out to be bad, I'll say so without hesitation, or fear of repercussions.

    I've yet to see any evidence from the vested staff members to support this apologist theory either.
    .
    .....
    MarkEagle
    .....<a href="http://discussion.treocentral.com/tcforum/index.php?s=">TreoCentral</a> | <a href="http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php?s=">VisorCentral</a> Forum Moderator - Forum Guidelines
    .....Sprint PCS Treo 650
    .....God bless America, my home sweet home...
  17. #97  
    palmOne is still uniquely positioned to best serve the hardcore Palm OS and Palm OS / Smartphone markets. They can survive the 650, and most likely get a nice boost from it once the quirks are worked out. I feel like the next major revision to the treo will be more telling than this.
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisutley
    palmOne is still uniquely positioned to best serve the hardcore Palm OS and Palm OS / Smartphone markets. They can survive the 650, and most likely get a nice boost from it once the quirks are worked out. I feel like the next major revision to the treo will be more telling than this.
    true...palm has the best position to serve us, but now days i even see many pdas going the microsoft way of life. i hope more phones and pdas go back to palm, but unless palm can not make its product/software stand out, we tree/palm os users will be microsoft customers in the future. who else sells palm powered phones instead of palmone?
    Naveen

    Current:Cingular 8525 w/Faria R32

    Next Phone:
    Something from HTC because Palm sucks, so I want a Touch Pro, Touch HD, or a Treo Pro.
  19. #99  
    Dr.Doom,

    Wow, what wrath. I hope you feel like better, like a man of the South defending the honor of his women.

    I'm not sure what prompted the lumping comment...if anything, SV, Zen, and myslef are fairly different, which is evidently by reading our posts (I don't think we agree with each other that often).

    All I was saying is that the "outrage" (which is a strong word), has died down since P1's announcement, and there has been a general feeling that P1 fixed this issue.

    Time will tell is they do.

    If you don't like the posts, SAND.

    I'm sure Michael, Kurt, et. all, do not need anyone defending them...they are articulate enough (and way less rabid) to do it themselves.

    As for how great TC is, I would say it is great because of ALL the contributers. This community is strong because of its members, not because someone set up a discussion board.

    Me thinks you protest too much, but that is your perogative.

    And everyone has the power to vote someone off the island with the ignore button.

    The only time I, or anyone else will "leave" is if the TC owners decide to whack our accounts. At the point, it's so long and thanks for all the fish.

    So until them, keeping reading and posting.
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Zen of Palm
    Another thing: maybe it's just me, but recently it seems like we're seeing a lot of apologist posts from Treocentral staff. I realize a lot of Palm's negative press recently stemmed from postings here at Treocentral and that Palm must be more than a little peeved about what's happened. So, did Palm ask you to fall in line and become better cheerleaders? Did Palm voice any displeasure towards Treocentral regarding what's happened here recently?
    The reason it may appear that way is that we all like the Treo. Otherwise we wouldn't spend so much time every day (for free) moderating these forums. We obviously believe the product is wonderful (if we didn't, we'd be off doing something else). As such, we'd like to share all the great things it can do. We also want it to get better and better, which is why we don't just delete all the bad things said about the 650 (which is what we really would do if we were trying to cover something up). So we try to keep the discourse civil and keep everything in perspective (notice I didn't say above that there wasn't a problem, only that it wasn't a disaster. The fact remains most people who buy a 650 will never know nor care about this issue).

    To put one thing straight: we are not paid by Palm, we are not pressured by Palm, I personally don't even know where PalmOne is based and have never seen nor heard from anyone at the Company. I have a different opinion than you, and just as I respect yours, please respect mine without insulting my character.
Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast

Posting Permissions