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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    Now, now, Otter, don't tease the animals in the cage... ;-)

    Only in jest, Mikec.

    I save my biting sarcasm and anger for my "real job"
    Last edited by Otter Emperor; 11/24/2004 at 09:41 AM. Reason: Realized that I was actually implying that Mikec knew me which he doesn't!
    ELR
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  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by JTREOB
    650 was a highly anticipated smart phone, but it won't be selling like hotcakes if the issues I've been reading aren't fixed.

    I just want to know one thing. Were the hell was the r&d team on this device? They had a year to better the 600. Their results seem very questionable.

    How could this fat memory issue be missed. At a scant 32 to begin with, the memory issue has been compounded. As far as I can tell, the 650 is hardly the phone to jump to right now from a well run 600. As a matter of fact, I would recommend a 600 at this point over the 650. Some progress!
    I would actually disagree with Kurt that the 650 is selling like hotcakes....it's virtually impossible to get ahold of.

    The iPods, which you can get everywhere (even Costco FCOL), are selling like hotcakes. The Treo 650? Maybe among the rabid geeks like ourselves, but not to the masses.

    But, I completely agree with JRTreo's comment about the development department. For a year timespan, many are underwhelmed.

    Look at the primary "new" features which were already well within the realm of possibility last year:

    Hi-res screen
    Bluetooth
    Removable battery
    Better camera

    I'm not saying I don't like the 650, I'm just saying there is nothing "wow" going on, and I thnk the memory issue and filesystem blunder are just more examples of less than dazzling product development.
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by SeldomVisitor
    It has been posted elsewhere that PalmOne is attempting to broaden their end-customer market beyond pure geeks. Perhaps they indeed do not care that the memory is limited for geeks but not for someone who uses the TREO line EXACTLY as research has shown riun-of-the-mill users want to use their phones - as address books, SMS senders, email, web surfing, and occasional picture taking and that's about it.
    This would not jive with P1's earlier statements regarding the enterprise market. I can assure you, the 600 series is not intended for the geek or soccer moms. That's why this device should work out of the box without the Chinese work arounds. Time is money, and ****ing around to get it to work is a joke.
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    I would actually disagree with Kurt that the 650 is selling like hotcakes....it's virtually impossible to get ahold of.

    The iPods, which you can get everywhere (even Costco FCOL), are selling like hotcakes. The Treo 650? Maybe among the rabid geeks like ourselves, but not to the masses.
    As you just said, they are selling as fast as they can. You can't get any faster than that. Thus, hotcakes.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    I would actually disagree with Kurt that the 650 is selling like hotcakes....it's virtually impossible to get ahold of.

    Yes, but this could also mean they can't manufacture them and get them out to the warehouses fast enough. That the demand is outrunning the supply. Just like a hot cake that isn't sitting on the table top long enough to cool down?

    That being said, the GSM model is obviously not selling like hot cakes yet since they aren't even out of the oven. But I am sure that once they are, we will see the same circumstances: more buyers than units on the shelves.

    Do you disagree?

    PS:
    (I also PERSONALLY hope that the GSM model has an official miracle "fix" to the memory issue. Specifically, I am hoping beyond hope for more memory. )
    ELR
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  6. #66  
    Selling like hot cakes on a intial release suggests nothing about the quality of the device.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by JTREOB
    Selling like hot cakes on a intial release suggest nothing about the quality of the device.
    Goodness!

    Yer beginning to sound like me!

    Perhaps you better create a signature soon!
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by JTREOB
    Selling like hot cakes on a intial release suggests nothing about the quality of the device.
    Agreed, it never does. 2 different things.
    ELR
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  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by JTREOB
    Selling like hot cakes on a intial release suggests nothing about the quality of the device.
    Agreed, but it does say something about the initial impressions of the device's design.
  10. #70  
    Based on the info I've been reading here, and considering the 1 year time frame P1 had to improve on the 600, I find the 650 issues inexcusable. I'm an enterprise user, I have little geek talent, thus the equation is very simple. Make it reliable, adaptable and fairly easy to use.

    What's most expensive are those things that don't work right, and right now the 650 appears to be very expensive to own. I honestly hope that changes.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by JTREOB
    . I'm an enterprise user, I have little geek talent, thus the equation is very simple. Make it reliable, adaptable and fairly easy to use.
    I think you'll find that you are the type of user who would never know about this issues. Only us geeks understand the issues. Enterprise users will turn on the phone, sync up and be on their way. They don't need to use half the memory on the device. Looking at how people use the Blackberries in my company, it's clear they don't do anything powerful. Charge n go.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by JTREOB
    That's why this device should work out of the box without the Chinese work arounds. Time is money, and ****ing around to get it to work is a joke.
    "Chinese work arounds?"

    What kind of asinine racist statement is that?
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    As you just said, they are selling as fast as they can. You can't get any faster than that. Thus, hotcakes.

    Selling like hotcakes means they are being sold as fast as they can be made; this is not the case; the devices are made, but they are being released in a controlled fashion.

    Thus, selling like a constrained supply line.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by Otter Emperor
    Yes, but this could also mean they can't manufacture them and get them out to the warehouses fast enough. That the demand is outrunning the supply. Just like a hot cake that isn't sitting on the table top long enough to cool down?

    That being said, the GSM model is obviously not selling like hot cakes yet since they aren't even out of the oven. But I am sure that once they are, we will see the same circumstances: more buyers than units on the shelves.

    Do you disagree?

    PS:
    (I also PERSONALLY hope that the GSM model has an official miracle "fix" to the memory issue. Specifically, I am hoping beyond hope for more memory. )
    I do disagree.

    They have them; they are just controlling the release, as has been confirmed by several sources, even at F1. It's not the same; hotcakes are ready, and then gone. In this case, 650s are ready, but being handed out artificially slowly.

    As for the GSM model; I am willing to bet hard currency that the GSM model will have NO memory fix. I actually think the "memory" problem will nt be addressed at all.
  15. #75  
    Semantics. There are no unsold Treos (essentially).
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    I think you'll find that you are the type of user who would never know about this issues. Only us geeks understand the issues. Enterprise users will turn on the phone, sync up and be on their way. They don't need to use half the memory on the device. Looking at how people use the Blackberries in my company, it's clear they don't do anything powerful. Charge n go.

    Again, I disagree.

    I do not lump Real Estate agents into the "geek" crowd, but they tons of contacts, and will hit the wall fast with the 650.

    Blackberries are not a good example, as they are basically email devices.

    People using Treos do a lot more, because the can do more.
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    Semantics. There are no unsold Treos (essentially).
    Semantics? Well that's a slippery slope if I ever saw one.

    Yes, there are thousand of unsold Treos (to end comsumers).
    To carriers, there may not be.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy
    "Chinese work arounds?"

    What kind of asinine racist statement is that?

    Well, I spilled some gook on my screen, but if I squint with my eyes and read the post, (ignoring the fire drill alarm going off around me), I would says that comment went down the slippery slope of offending some people.


    But, I could be wrong, just like the time I tried to ghetto-rig my Treo to a cllular boost antenna.

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    #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    I do not lump Real Estate agents into the "geek" crowd, but they tons of contacts, and will hit the wall fast with the 650.
    Depending on how the device is configured -- if you're talking straight contacts, I believe early tests showed over 10k records before the addressbook is pegged to capacity. Mixing it up with 3rd party applications is indeed an issue, but I'd speculate the average user likely has less than 1000 contacts, and I'd guess less than 1% of the users have 5000+ contacts.
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    Blackberries are not a good example, as they are basically email devices.
    That was true once upon a time, but since MDS and J2ME became available, the Blackberry is no longer just an email device. Yes, application support has not been even close to the level of PalmOS, but RIM builds a pretty compelling device overall, and RIM's sales and general adoption into the corporate world would agree with that.

    It is the market that the Treo is targeted after, so it is important to see what RIM does as a company and how customers use their Blackberry. If they **** off a few power users but take 50% of the Blackberry market, there's nothing to worry about. If they **** off the power users and are unable to penetrate the market, then PalmOne is in trouble.
  20. #80  
    I sincerely want to see P1 turn this thing around since the MS Smartphones seem to be the only viable alternative. I'm not a Micro$oft fan by any stretch but it is a necessary evil -- right now -- for corporate workstations. There is something extremely satisfying about using an non-MS device for my personal data needs.

    Hopefully, P1 will pull a rabbit out of their hat.
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