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  1. F1Turbo's Avatar
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    #21  
    F1 is Formula One and has nothing to do with Palm.
  2. F1Turbo's Avatar
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    172 Global Posts
    #22  
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    F1 was coined by me.

    it describes what P1 is...effed up.

    it is not Sprint's fault

    BT 1.2 was not used - F1 choice
    File system changed - F1 choice
    23MB Ram - F1 choice.
    And here I thought I lost name calling back in elementary school. You'd think the name would have been at least clever enough to include some kind of variation of Palm in there. Once you take the Palm out of the name it could be used for any company.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    ..... BT 1.2 was not used .....
    Why does everyone keep talking about how P1 should have included bluetooth 1.2 instead of 1.1? All the 1.2 specification added was adaptive frequency hopping, which meant that it worked better when there was interference from another radio spectrum....like say....802.11x. But since we all know that WiFi has a small chance of even seeing the Treo 650, it doesn’t matter.

    Now, if in say 2 months someone releases working drivers that enable the use of a WiFi SD card (and after we spend $100+ on it, and only have 256 MB on the SD card), then we can start whining about the Bluetooth stack.
  5. #25  
    ...P1 is NOT going away. They consistently deliver the best PDA/Phone products on the market. Experts (Walter Mossberg, anyone?) say it. Periodicals (Handheld Computing, anyone?) say it. And best of all, users (you know, MONEY, anyone?) say it. Name me another smartphone that comes close to outselling the Treo, let alone actually does it! You can't because they don't exist. Do some users have legitimate gripes with regards to the 650? Sure, but no one else on the market has anything even close. After reading all the negative reviews and complaints about the memory etc., I went and checked out the PPC6601, or whatever it is. I was acually think about jumping ship. You know what I realized playing with it there in the Sprint store? Well, despite the fact that I DESPISE PPC, it doesn't matter because they (the manufacturers of that phone) still got it WRONG!!!! Is it closer? Sure, but still no Treo. Will someone eventually get something close eneough to compete in my mind? I'm sure they will, but unless its as elegant, as efficient, and as cool, I don't think P1 has much to worry about.
    Go here if you're tired of being .
    It'll be fun.
  6.    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    The Treo600 saved handspring. The Treo650 is selling like hotcakes. PalmOne has the best PDA-based smartphone out there (though there have recently been some improved PPC offerings). If the 650 is a swansong, it isn't because they dropped the ball, but rather because the whole smartphone segment is rough.

    The Treo 600 saved PALM. That's why they bought Handspring. The Treo 600 was the first smartphone design that worked. As a minor upgrade of the Treo 600 the 650 is also a good design. But it's not enough. To spend a year only to release minor tweaks (like Sony Ericsson's weak move from the P900 to the P910) is asking to be left behind.

    Those of us that have been around PDAs since the beginning have seen this all before. When F1 had its megahit with the Palm V, they sat on their fat, lazy a$$es and did nothing to innovate. They got greedy when it seemed like there was an insatiable demand for their overpriced hardware. Instead of trying to push the envelope, they sat around counting their money. Now F1's PDAs are following the same script written by the likes of Netscape, Word Perfect, Lotus 1 2 3, etc.

    It always amazes me how people are totally oblivious to how quickly a market leader can become an also-ran. No doubt, F1 will keep milking the market and then maybe put out a Treo 700 next Fall with 256 MB of BogusRAM, Cobalt and an OLED screen. Try to sell it for $650 again and then wonder why no one's biting. If F1 doesn't put out a sub-$200 basic phone in 2005, they can kiss the platform's future goodbye.
  7. #27  
    Oh boy . . ..

    P1 will not put out a cobalt treo next yr. Know a little about P1 before u start saying they're dead if they don't do thid or that . . . what P1 does allows them to continue selling PDAs when many are pulling out. They have repeatedly said there is enough room in smartphone market for many players @ this point.

    lastly P1 could make 3 different Treos next yr, but if carriers AND P1 think its too soon it would be a waste of $.
    you'll get ur good, better, and maybe best treo when the market is ready and carriers too.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Chupacabra
    ... If F1 doesn't put out a sub-$200 basic phone in 2005, they can kiss the platform's future goodbye.
    I'll bet otherwise.

    The 650 is far from perfect. But, for my money, everything else is at least a little bit farther from perfect.

    I'm really miffed that nobody makes what I consider a perfect car. But at whom should I be angry about this? The manufacturers? Why should they make anything other than what their research indicates will make them the most money? P1 didn't leave out your favorite features because they didn't know how to include them or didn't want to include them. Rather, it was because they felt that the benefits (increased revenues) from including those features would not outweigh the costs of doing so. It's that simple, and it's not a crime.

    Although a few people will pass on the 650 because of the problems mentioned on TC, I believe that most potential buyers won't be swayed by those issues. And if that's correct, then P1 made the correct business decision. And if you're worried about P1's future, making the correct business decision is exactly what you should want them to do. If you think your decisions would be better, then go apply for a management position with P1.
  9.    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtreosexual
    KR,

    I hope that is not going to last long.I think palmone is still enjoying the power handspring handed over to them.It will take just one good product from manufacturers (i.e Ben q , MPX,SE) to bring an end to this.
    Many of the PPC are almost becoming a close choice, unlike the initial days of treo 300,when there was a major diference in form factor and other features

    Exactly. And if F1's business model now involves relying on sales of ultra-expensive smartphones to the corporate world, how hard do you think it will be for Microsoft snuff out F1 by pressuring people into thinking that Windows smartphones are a better solution to linking with Windows desktops + Windows servers? (So what if that's not actually true?)

    I really think F1 now lacks the vision to produce innovative products. The original Pilot was a brilliant combination of form and function. IDEO gave Palm another great design in the V series and the T3 is also pretty slick (albeit poorly constructed). What other memorable devices has F1 produced in the past 4 years? (Remember, the Treo was strictly a Handspring design.)

    Once the Price Wars hit the smartphone arena (like if Dell was to start selling a Windows-powered HTC-made phone) guess what's gonna happen? Cover your eyes, children - you don't want to see this...
  10.    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by craigdts
    Oh boy . . ..

    P1 will not put out a cobalt treo next yr. Know a little about P1 before u start saying they're dead if they don't do thid or that . . . what P1 does allows them to continue selling PDAs when many are pulling out. They have repeatedly said there is enough room in smartphone market for many players @ this point.

    lastly P1 could make 3 different Treos next yr, but if carriers AND P1 think its too soon it would be a waste of $.
    you'll get ur good, better, and maybe best treo when the market is ready and carriers too.
    Who says they won't put out a Cobalt Treo in 2005? Last I heard, Colligan said he has not committed to if or when F1 will start using Cobalt. The Treo 650 smells like an interim, stopgap device, kinda like the fetid Tungsten 5. A highend Treo 700 in 6 months running Cobalt could be one way to freshen up the lineup. Personally, I feel Cobalt is a waste of time, since OS 5 does most of what most people need to do and as a new OS, Cobalt's growing pains might not be worth its potential benefits. No wonder no one seems to want Cobalt. (Not to mention the fact that it's STILL a work in progress!)

    Sorry pal, but F1 is also starting to pull out of PDAs. And they aren't selling smartphones so that they can keep putting out their one true love: PDAs (as some clueless romantics seem to feel). They're selling smartphones because they can get away with huge margins (for now) and the PDA market is both shrinking and supersaturated with leaner, meaner competition.

    F1 is now a phone maker - or more correctly, a phone brander. Its PDA lineup is toast and already accounts for less than 50% of profits. Pinning the company's future on a single device is a recipe for disaster. What if - heaven forbid! - a fatal flaw is found on the Treo 650 that, say results in a massive recall? Which then leads to a slump in sales? How will the one trick pony survive?
  11.    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by DrDoom
    Name me another smartphone that comes close to outselling the Treo, let alone actually does it! You can't because they don't exist.
    Ahem.

    - The Sony Ericsson P800 and P900.
    - A couple of (very bad) Nokias

    To put this in perspective, it's expected that around 600 MILLION cellphones (mobile phones to you Euros) will be sold in 2004. A smart company that is repositioning themselves as a phone company would do anything possible to go after as big a chunk of this pie as they can, rather than just aiming for a tiny piece of the succulent center. Because if you blink, that pie just might be all gone next year, scarfed down by Nokia and Co.
  12.    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by BubbaHooska
    I'll bet otherwise.

    The 650 is far from perfect. But, for my money, everything else is at least a little bit farther from perfect.

    I'm really miffed that nobody makes what I consider a perfect car. But at whom should I be angry about this? The manufacturers? Why should they make anything other than what their research indicates will make them the most money? P1 didn't leave out your favorite features because they didn't know how to include them or didn't want to include them. Rather, it was because they felt that the benefits (increased revenues) from including those features would not outweigh the costs of doing so. It's that simple, and it's not a crime.

    Although a few people will pass on the 650 because of the problems mentioned on TC, I believe that most potential buyers won't be swayed by those issues. And if that's correct, then P1 made the correct business decision. And if you're worried about P1's future, making the correct business decision is exactly what you should want them to do. If you think your decisions would be better, then go apply for a management position with P1.
    I'll see your bet and raise you $100. If F1 does not have a sub-$200 Palm OS phone out in 2005, the company will be either bankrupt or will have been bought out within 2 years.

    F1 cut corners on the Treo 650 for the same reasons they cut corners on the Treo 600, the Tungsten 5, the Tungsten E, the Tungsten T3, the... F1 cuts corners because they think they can get away with it. Would the money spent building a better Treo 600 have been balanced by the money saved in reducing its astronomical return rate? No doubt, F1's accountants know these figures.

    Treo Apologists always say the company knows exactly what it's doing and that Everything Is All Going According To Plan (cue evil laugh). Hogwash. Everything I've seen from F1 in recent years suggests the company doesn't have the slightest clue what they're doing. In fact, had they not strapped themselves onto Handspring's broad Treo 600 back last year, F1 might have had to declare bankruptcy already.

    I'd consider an executive position with F1, but 1) they can't afford my rates and 2) I don't want to work for a company that seems to be swirling down the toilet.

    Where's "Crazy" Jake and his BulletTrain when F1 needs him? Wherefore art thou, Jake?


    http://www.treocentral.com/content/Stories/262-2.htm
  13. #33  
    Ah, so what you're all complaining about is how PalmOne doesn't invest all its time and effort into producing the one device that would make YOU happy. Yeah, I can see how that would make good business sense. Maybe rather then whining about what it doesn't have, you should spend some of that time trying to find a device that does offer what you want. I believe PalmOne does a good job of determining what the markets needs are and creating a device for the masses. And based on the numbers (sales) I think you'll find there are more people satisfied then left wanting.

    For as much as I've read about people complaining about this or that, you'll never have one device that does everything everyone wants it to do. Research and development take time and money, what you think is such an easy answer actually costs someone money. This is why you will see the device such as the Treo evolve over time into what you think it should be today. PalmOne will continue to make money off the development it has done thus far and will hopefully turn that around into future development.

    That said, yeah I would have liked more then 32mb of memory, however I'm yet to run out so it's not that pressing of an issue. I guess when I bought the phone I was looking for a replacement to my pager, PDA and phone not my laptop. And it's filled that niche quite nicely, plus given me an MP3 player, a book reader, a miniature movie viewer and so much more.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by SlipperyPete
    Ah, so what you're all complaining about is how PalmOne doesn't invest all its time and effort into producing the one device that would make YOU happy. Yeah, I can see how that would make good business sense. Maybe rather then whining about what it doesn't have, you should spend some of that time trying to find a device that does offer what you want. I believe PalmOne does a good job of determining what the markets needs are and creating a device for the masses. And based on the numbers (sales) I think you'll find there are more people satisfied then left wanting.

    For as much as I've read about people complaining about this or that, you'll never have one device that does everything everyone wants it to do. Research and development take time and money, what you think is such an easy answer actually costs someone money. This is why you will see the device such as the Treo evolve over time into what you think it should be today. PalmOne will continue to make money off the development it has done thus far and will hopefully turn that around into future development.

    That said, yeah I would have liked more then 32mb of memory, however I'm yet to run out so it's not that pressing of an issue. I guess when I bought the phone I was looking for a replacement to my pager, PDA and phone not my laptop. And it's filled that niche quite nicely, plus given me an MP3 player, a book reader, a miniature movie viewer and so much more.
    Dont forget Email client, VNC Client, Awesome blogging tool (see Textamerica.com), Voice recorder, Video Recorder, Bejeweled Device, Instant Messenger (see Verichat), Portable Modem (see PDAnet), SD Card Reader (See CardExport), Camera.

    and on the treo 650, all that plus the following promising potentials:
    Bar Code Scanner (with SD expansion), GPS tracker (with SD Expansion), dare I say WiFi (if they ever figure out how to get past the radio issues)?
  15. pmdied's Avatar
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    #35  
    I would have liked to see something along these lines:http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...ad.php?t=63081.
    Handspring implemented this marketing idea which introduced me to this whole pda/smartphone concept.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by RWerksman
    Whoa, dude...
    Neo, is that you?
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by F1Turbo
    F1 is Formula One and has nothing to do with Palm.
    Incorrect for the context of this forum...
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    And here I thought I lost name calling back in elementary school. You'd think the name would have been at least clever enough to include some kind of variation of Palm in there. Once you take the Palm out of the name it could be used for any company.
    Well, I could call them J1, ask in JackOne, as in jacking off customers, but that would assume some satisfaction, which is arguable.

    As for namecalling, where's my bible banger when I need him...let he who is without sin cast the first stone...
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by iamtext
    Why does everyone keep talking about how P1 should have included bluetooth 1.2 instead of 1.1? All the 1.2 specification added was adaptive frequency hopping, which meant that it worked better when there was interference from another radio spectrum....like say....802.11x. But since we all know that WiFi has a small chance of even seeing the Treo 650, it doesn’t matter.

    Now, if in say 2 months someone releases working drivers that enable the use of a WiFi SD card (and after we spend $100+ on it, and only have 256 MB on the SD card), then we can start whining about the Bluetooth stack.
    BT 1.2 does more than that.

    An wi-fi interference can come from many other sources than the device itself.

    Wi-Fi drivers? I hear Elvis is working on them...
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Chupacabra
    The Treo 600 saved PALM. That's why they bought Handspring. The Treo 600 was the first smartphone design that worked. As a minor upgrade of the Treo 600 the 650 is also a good design. But it's not enough. To spend a year only to release minor tweaks (like Sony Ericsson's weak move from the P900 to the P910) is asking to be left behind.

    Those of us that have been around PDAs since the beginning have seen this all before. When F1 had its megahit with the Palm V, they sat on their fat, lazy a$$es and did nothing to innovate. They got greedy when it seemed like there was an insatiable demand for their overpriced hardware. Instead of trying to push the envelope, they sat around counting their money. Now F1's PDAs are following the same script written by the likes of Netscape, Word Perfect, Lotus 1 2 3, etc.

    It always amazes me how people are totally oblivious to how quickly a market leader can become an also-ran. No doubt, F1 will keep milking the market and then maybe put out a Treo 700 next Fall with 256 MB of BogusRAM, Cobalt and an OLED screen. Try to sell it for $650 again and then wonder why no one's biting. If F1 doesn't put out a sub-$200 basic phone in 2005, they can kiss the platform's future goodbye.
    Chupa's best line:

    "When F1 had its megahit with the Palm V, they sat on their fat, lazy a$$es and did nothing to innovate"

    Amen brother!
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