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  1. #41  
    IMO, anyone who even finds these forums is an advanced user. If they register here and post once, they're a power user. At $400+ for a cell phone, this ain't a mass market item.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    At $400+ for a cell phone, this ain't a mass market item.
    Ya think?
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    IMO, anyone who even finds these forums is an advanced user. If they register here and post once, they're a power user. At $400+ for a cell phone, this ain't a mass market item.

    Scott
    Exactly! Most people don't like the "birth control phone" look of the Treo, it's friggin huge (compared to regular just phones, agreed, it's a GREAT form factor for what it is, but 90% of people think it's some huge monstrosity from the '80s like Zach Morris' phone from SBTB, until you show them what it does).

    But that's the point--9 out of 10 phone buyers won't and don't want to buy a Treo. That leaves: 1) power users like us on TC 2) geeks (see 1) 3) business professionals supported by an IT infrastructure.

    The third is the biggest market, which is a big deal here. If the IT Dept can't fit all their apps, databases, etc in memory, what good is the phone? Moreover, if it is going to become a support/integration nightmare because end users have no RAM to play with (think camera --> taking pictures --> no RAM to store --> an executive that is angry with his mobility toy).

    There are plenty of scenarioes like the above, but the bottom line is Scott hit the nail on the head. If you have a Treo, you *ARE* a Power User. That already-too-small 32 won't go unused, and anything you do to jeopardize that capacity further alienates you from your target demographic.

    Remember, when it is all said and done, the money is made because the device solves a set of problems, it's a solution. Not because it has neato whiz-bang features with cool acronymns like NAND and NVRAM.
  4. #44  
    I remember reading somewhere that Palm spent alot of time beta testing this Treo 650. It got more beta testing than any other Palm unit in the past. If this is so, why did they not catch this memory issue?
  5. #45  
    The only thing P1 will respond to is $$$.

    Cancel your order, and they will fix this problem.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    IMO, anyone who even finds these forums is an advanced user. If they register here and post once, they're a power user. At $400+ for a cell phone, this ain't a mass market item.

    Scott
    I cant remember the guestimated sales number for the T600, but I believe I was mind boggled. P1 sold a sh-t load of those things.
  7. #47  
    This is all quite revealing. Here I was ready to order a 650 this weekend. but since it's clear I'd have even less memory than on my 600, I'm not biting until they get it right, and if T600 prices drop dramatically on ebay by then, I won't buy one at all. Good job P1.
  8. #48  
    What a shame. Palm (and Handspring before them) always seems to just fall short in their attempts to "get it right" with the Treo. They spend way too much energy fixing problems that should never make it to retail.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by keithmeyer
    I cant remember the guestimated sales number for the T600, but I believe I was mind boggled. P1 sold a sh-t load of those things.
    If anyone knows definitively, please post the numbers here. I don't believe that Handspring/palmOne ever broke their numbers down finitely enough to know the exact numbers of the Treo 600. But I believe that the numbers I've heard thrown about were miniscule compared to the kinds of numbers that Nokia and Sony-Ericsson deals with.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  10. #50  
    You are right. Cant find breakdown of T600's. However...

    27.4 MILLION units (Zire/Tungsten/Treo) shipped cumulative.

    981,000 this fiscal quarter.

    http://ir.palmone.com/ireye/ir_site....item_id=616796
  11. #51  
    You look at a $600 phone and say it's not mass market. This is true, kids and soccer mom's won't be buying this phone (any apologies to those that may fit the description and have a treo, it's a generalization and there are always exceptions).

    However, you have to look at the law of large numbers. An executive making a high 6 figure salary does not see $600 as a large amount of money. Every exec in my company, except the CEO is using a Treo. Do I think they use it fully? Of course not, name me one VP of anything or board member that's going to want to pssh to the unix server at the office? That's what the admin staff on under the CTO are for. In the end, however, they want a phone and email, web maybe.

    They are P1's target. Not the IT staff on the floor that would be using Ipaq's anyway. This drives the decision for P1. While those of us considered power users may suggest it to our friends and be the word-of-mouth advertisers, how many people have you talked to that thought it was a cool device until you told them the price?

    c
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by controller
    You look at a $600 phone and say it's not mass market. This is true, kids and soccer mom's won't be buying this phone (any apologies to those that may fit the description and have a treo, it's a generalization and there are always exceptions).

    However, you have to look at the law of large numbers. An executive making a high 6 figure salary does not see $600 as a large amount of money. Every exec in my company, except the CEO is using a Treo. Do I think they use it fully? Of course not, name me one VP of anything or board member that's going to want to pssh to the unix server at the office? That's what the admin staff on under the CTO are for. In the end, however, they want a phone and email, web maybe.

    They are P1's target. Not the IT staff on the floor that would be using Ipaq's anyway. This drives the decision for P1. While those of us considered power users may suggest it to our friends and be the word-of-mouth advertisers, how many people have you talked to that thought it was a cool device until you told them the price?

    c
    I use the T600 in the same capacity, unlike my peers I have a technical background. Let me tell you though, the non-technical execs I work with *WILL* throw a fit when the camera app says they are out of memory. They *WILL* throw a fit when the new app they were told would do XYZ at CompUSA won't fit on their device, even though they followed the instructions.

    Not to mention the IT staff that has to listen and deal with these complaints. It happens, luckily I am intelligent enough to service my own IT needs, my colleagues aren't technical enough, and I feel for the IT managers that have to support them.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by controller
    However, you have to look at the law of large numbers. An executive making a high 6 figure salary does not see $600 as a large amount of money. Every exec in my company, except the CEO is using a Treo.
    So the target market is execs making six-figure salaries? And people here think that the users of this site are a niche market? Last time I checked, the number of geeks far outweighed the number of six-figure execs.

    Just because a high-paid exec is willing to drop $600 on a phone, it doesn't mean that he's going to approve the purchase of 1000 of them (and the ongoing monthly phone plans) for the worker-bees. The top-level execs at the fortune 500 company I currently work for have mansions, summer homes, yachts, and expensive vacations, yet I (as a fairly high paid worker, I might add) don't even have access to the internet from my desktop computer, let alone a company-paid-for cell phone.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  14. #54  
    Non- power users will notice the memory issue.
    I'm a non-power used put off by the memory issue. I will not buy the 650 until the memory issue is addressed. I'm posting not because I'm a hard core techie but because I've wanted email on the road in 1 box for years, one that will grow with my needs, and one that works without fiddling, fixing, and aggravation.

    < Long >
    I still have my antique PVx, the best computing device I've ever had. It just works, with rare resets mostly caused by a usb adapter cable. I've gone a week on one charge, and it's still using it's original batt. I have'nt used the 8mb on it (partly because the dictionary I want won't fit) and stil see a serious issue with the 650. Anyone who owns a computer knows that newer models need much more ram.
    The apps for the 650 will be larger and more numerous than my few Vx apps. It now becomes an email repository, portable document reader, multilingual dictionary etc. Now if I insert, say, on SD card with the Oxford English Dictionary I need to remove my card configured as discussed here on the board with all the apps I can't load in RAM. Or let's say a clever outfit gets a wifi sd card to work - oops, gotta remove my data + apps SD card again.
    I've been waiting years for a combined email-phone device and can now afford it. It's clear I'll run into this issue with a 650. For the flagship machine that's a dealbreaker. I'd be happy to open the wallet for 450 +several 100s for apps + accessories were the machine a *solid* reliable and capable solution. The inefficent memory use and lack of an option for more tell me the machine won't grow with my needs.
    Tech outfits don't get it. You get customer loyalty by making something that **works**, letting me accomplish something other than fiddling with a toy to make it become a tool. They got my loyalty with the PVx. Build more products that help me accomplish my goals and I'll open the wallet in those $600 chunks. Annoy me with half finished junk & I'll stop listening to the sales pitch & forget actually buying something. P1 can play with their customer base for a while like Detroit did with the US market, then once you lose them you're gone. Micrososft makes annoyng, clunky products but the do listen & respond to their customer base - their stuff's slowly getting better. Think of them like an acelerating locomotive in P1s rearview mirror.
    /end rant
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by IsLNdbOi
    I remember reading somewhere that Palm spent alot of time beta testing this Treo 650. It got more beta testing than any other Palm unit in the past.
    Define "a lot of time".

    Be sure to use PalmOne-think when defining it. E.g., keep in mind the PalmOne-think definition of "launch" and "available".

    Define "More beta testing than any other Palm unit".

    Be sure to use PalmOne-think when defining it. Remember that 1 is more than 0 or 1,000,001 is more than 1,000,000.
    Last edited by SeldomVisitor; 11/22/2004 at 06:03 AM.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by keithmeyer
    I cant remember the guestimated sales number for the T600, but I believe I was mind boggled. P1 sold a sh-t load of those things.
    PalmOne says they "sold in" approximately 700,000 TREO 600s and have made a statement like "Passed the 1 million sales threshold with TREOs" but did NOT hard-define "TREOs" as meaning "TREO 600s" or "all TREO models".

    Note - "sold in" is how PalmOne sells most of their products - they sell to those who sell to end-customers - and product CAN be returned to PalmOne (according to their financial filings).

    PalmOne does not reveal "sold through" numbers - sales to end-customers such as TreoCentral readers.

    Some of us believe they do not reveal such numbers because such numbers are significantly below sell-in numbers (e.g, the only HARD reinforcing data we have either way is for the TREO 180 - 47,000 sold-in on intro, 13,000 sold-through - the next quarter it was something like 46,000 sold-in, 24,000 sold through (I might have that latter number wrong) - that is, about 100,000 sold-in and about 40,000 sold-through during THE largest selling period, the introduction first couple quarters. They clammed up after that.)
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by SeldomVisitor
    PalmOne does not reveal "sold through" numbers - sales to end-customers such as TreoCentral readers.
    Many companies do this. Whenever I see this I think about how the American League in baseball reports their stadium attendance numbers. They report tickets sold, not fannies in the seats. The National League reports fannies.

    But, they do this because it represents units "sold". Its true that it would be nice if they gave us units "returned" and "exchanged"

    I am curious since I don't actively research these things, and I am not giving you a hard time in any way, do you have examples of similar technology companies that DO report "sold through" numbers?
    ELR
    >> Drop by! <<

    Avatar courtesy of ButtUglyJeff!
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmustaf
    I have defered my 650 purchase and bought a $120 Audiovox SMT 5600 as a stop gap (could no longer live sans BT). It does everything the T650 can, smaller form factor (friggin TINY)
    Does the TREO 650 compete with Audiovox SMT 5600 ??? I'm not sure. What about editing MS Office docs or Touchscreen ?



    Quote Originally Posted by bmustaf
    just sans keyboard (going to get a Bluetooth KB anyway).
    Also could you please let me know where I can get this BT kb for the SMT 5600 ?
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by SeldomVisitor
    Define "a lot of time".

    Be sure to use PalmOne-think when defining it. E.g., keep in mind the PalmOne-think definition of "launch" and "available".

    Define "More beta testing than any other Palm unit".

    Be sure to use PalmOne-think when defining it. Remember that 1 is more than 0 or 1,000,001 is more than 1,000,000.

    ... Ummm, yeah...
  20. #60  
    Getting back to the initial point of this thread...

    ...I will be putting whatever pressure I can on P1 as an individual, a member of an enterprise and a member of this forum. P1 does NOT NEED ANY ADDITIONAL TIME to fix this "memory issue". What they need is several kicks in the pants. They need to wake up. And that will only happen if their finances suffer, actually or POTENTIALLY.

    So, those of you that are in positions of power and persuasion - you are the ones who can deter your local enterprise masses from purchasing the T650. And even if you don't deter these folks, as a good citizen you can inform them about these issues (even if it doesn't affect them). Why? Because P1 has engaged in technical misrepresentation (I echo Dalai Lama's sentiments here).

    I'm holding onto my 650 for the 14 days that Sprint allows me. If P1 does not make a public statement that is satisfactory to resolving this issue then that unit will be going back. I'll take my turn kicking them in the pants too.

    Many people fail to recognize that we are free beta testers, marketers, tech support and research for them.
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