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  1. #21  
    My response to you would be that you are single handedly making this forum into one of idiots. First we clearly give palm the message, "Hurry up and release it already, give it to us in beta and then issue a patch as we find problems and you fix them... Then you flip out when they listen and now want a recall? You sir are an ***** in the truest nature of the term if you believe this will happen.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalai Lama
    I posted this in another thread to SpaceHog, who knows I am honest and trustworthy, and when I say something, I mean it. This is my message to PalmOne, and I hope someone there with some clout reads it. I suppose there is no longer any point in emailing their execs directly....


    PalmOne has essentially bungled the design and release of a product that should have put you on the map. Look at the messages on this board. Even without the memory issue, there are innumerable reports of crashes, lock-ups, etc., etc. Even the T600's worked well out of the box, (though many later had hardware problems that were probably due to the choice of manufacturer.) The memory situation is the last straw.

    My status as a PalmOne customer is in serious jeopardy, and there are many on this board who are with me. You do not want to lose us. We, the bleeding edgers, are those who get your products out into the field, where the "average Joes" see us use them, and hopefully then want one for themselves. You have ignored our needs with this phone, and it seems you have released it well before all the bugs were worked out. Personally, I give you guys at P1 until Tuesday to recall the 650 and APOLOGISE for all of this, or I will never buy another P1 product. That is MY bottom line.
    __________________


    geez thats harsh AND presumptuous!
  3.    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmite
    My response to you would be that you are single handedly making this forum into one of idiots. First we clearly give palm the message, "Hurry up and release it already, give it to us in beta and then issue a patch as we find problems and you fix them... Then you flip out when they listen and now want a recall? You sir are an ***** in the truest nature of the term if you believe this will happen.
    I was actually not one clammoring for the early release, thank you. Keep your personal attacks to yourself.

    PalmOne has issued a device with a serious hardware deficit. I see no way to "patch" this. When a machine has a hardware defect, a recall is in order.

    Folks, do yourselves a favor. PalmOne will see posts like the above and smugly convince themselves that the memory thing is a non-issue. Are you really totally fine with the fact that the 650 has considerably LESS usable memory than the 600? If not, state that along with the other deserved praise for the device. If you want to marginalize me, have at it, but in the end you hurt your chances of having the device you really wanted.
    http://www.doctordalai.com
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalai Lama
    Personally, I give you guys at P1 until Tuesday to recall the 650 and APOLOGISE for all of this, or I will never buy another P1 product. That is MY bottom line.
    LOL
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalai Lama
    I was actually not one clammoring for the early release, thank you. Keep your personal attacks to yourself.

    PalmOne has issued a device with a serious hardware deficit. I see no way to "patch" this. When a machine has a hardware defect, a recall is in order.

    Folks, do yourselves a favor. PalmOne will see posts like the above and smugly convince themselves that the memory thing is a non-issue. Are you really totally fine with the fact that the 650 has considerably LESS usable memory than the 600? If not, state that along with the other deserved praise for the device. If you want to marginalize me, have at it, but in the end you hurt your chances of having the device you really wanted.
    I'm sorry sir, you have NO CLUE how the hardware works. This is a software fix issue. I am a embedded systems programmer, I know what I'm talking about. Please keep your ultimatums to yourself.
  6.    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmite
    I'm sorry sir, you have NO CLUE how the hardware works. This is a software fix issue. I am a embedded systems programmer, I know what I'm talking about. Please keep your ultimatums to yourself.
    My ultimatum reflects my decision to buy or not to buy a product from a company. Your statement was a personal attack, and does nothing productive.

    Since you place yourself in the position of expert, I would seriously like to hear your full assessment of the memory situation. Do you disagree that it is a deficit? CAN it be fixed with a software? Do you envision a patch or an entire rework of the file structure? What is your best estimate of usable memory that could be recovered with a software fix?

    See, once we channel our energies away from sniping, we might accomplish something.
    http://www.doctordalai.com
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalai Lama
    My ultimatum reflects my decision to buy or not to buy a product from a company. Your statement was a personal attack, and does nothing productive.
    It amused some of us...does that count?
  8. #28  
    Agreed, I just don't like to see people badmouthing palm because their coders goofed... I know what it's like. Currently I'm cracking the DUN profile block at you can see in the bluetooth stack thread I began. Once I finish with that I'll get to looking at the memory handling.

    It should be simply a case of re-writting the file system functions to decrease the block size. They probably copied some old PC filesystem code from linux and forgot to decrease the block size.
  9.    #29  
    Probably would have amused me, too, if I hadn't been the target! LOL...
    http://www.doctordalai.com
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by silverado
    My 600 reset itself many more times when I was just starting out.
    I don't remember you posting about those crashes.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalai Lama
    Are you really totally fine with the fact that the 650 has considerably LESS usable memory than the 600?

    In an ideal world? No, but we knew it would be less from the start. Practically, as long as all my 600 info fits on the 650 with room to spare, I'll be fine.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalai Lama
    My ultimatum reflects my decision to buy or not to buy a product from a company. Your statement was a personal attack, and does nothing productive.
    And pray tell, what productivity does THIS little trantrum acheive?

    Yes, it's perfectly acceptable to express displeasure over a product that disappoints you. No one is denying you this. However, you make you displeasure known, and then you MOVE ON. If you keep posting and posting and posting and posting and posting the same information over and over and over and over again, and making childish little ultimatums, your credibility falters in a major way. You have single handedly turned your perfectly valid complaint into the raving rantings of someone who is obsessed and has made his life revolve around the flaws of a stupid piece of equipment that YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY.

    And now, instead of turning this place into a message board that maybe Palm1 might look into and see VALID, coherent displeasure, they're going to see 1 million posts by one guy throwing the biggest hissy fit in the history of Palm OS development, and say "this guy is a kook, and there is no pleasing him." And they will be less likely to bother.

    Let me elucidate my point: I have dealings with a cetain company whom I will not name that offers a different kind of very cutting edge technology (it involves music, and radio over really long distances, like, space and satellites and such). To augment this, uhm, long range radio, a series of repeaters have been placed across the continental US to boost the signal in places where the staellite signal might not be easy to pick up (major metor areas with very tall building, etc.). This company has headquarters on the east coast, and customers spread across the country.

    One day, this company got an e-mail from a person on the west coast, throwing a FIT because he swore that the repeater in his area was out and he paid so much money to buy equipment to receive this fine cutting edge service, and he couldn't get a signal. Now, this company has monitoring systems that are very sophisticated, and those systems told them that all repeaters were broadcasting loud and clear. A subcontractor hired to monitor and repair these systems agreed: the repeater was up! So, this customer was advised of the outcome, given the usual troubleshooting procedures, wished the best of luck, and thanked for this feedback.

    Well, not to be daunted, this person then sent letters to the CEO, CFO, CIO, and everyone in the PRPRPR $department$ $DEMANDING$ $that$ $this$ $broken$ $repeater$ $be$ $fixed$. $He$ $got$ $NASTY$, $and$ $called$ $the$ $local$ $press$. $He$ $flooded$ $message$ $boards$ $very$ $similar$ $to$ $this$ $one$ $with$ $inflammatory$ $comments$ $about$ $how$ $the$ $company$'$s$ $engineers$ $were$ $incompetent$ $and$ $would$ $not$ $fix$ $the$ $broken$ $repeater$, $riling$ $up$ $a$ $lot$ $of$ $poeple$ $in$ $the$ $process$ $and$ $even$ $went$ $so$ $far$ $as$ $to$ $convince$ $people$ $that$ $this$ $company$ $was$ $not$ $receptive$ $to$ $its$ $customers$ $and$ $got$ $quite$ $a$ $few$ $of$ $them$ $to$ $cancel$ $their$ $service$ $and$ $go$ $to$ $that$ $company$'$s$ $competitor$ $who$ $offered$ $similar$ $services$. $He$ $also$ $called$ $up$ $the$ $local$ $press$... $You$ $know$, $those$ &$quot$;$iTeams$&$quot$; $or$ &$quot$;$problem$ $solver$&$quot$; $segments$ $that$ $some$ $tv$ $stations$ $do$, $and$ $they$ $in$ $turn$ $contacted$ $the$ $coporate$ $headquarters$, $and$ $ran$ $all$ $kinds$ $of$ $segments$ $and$ $caused$ $some$ $bad$ $press$ $in$ $the$ $local$ $area$ $for$ $this$ $company$.

    Enough was enough, and the number of negative letters coming in now were so significant that the engineering group was really beginning to doubt the reliability of their monitoring system. They began to think that maybe the repeater really was down, and they just couldn't see it.

    So, they flew a team of engineers to the site on the west coast. And guess what they found? The repeater WAS in fact fine, equipment in the area could receive BOTH the repeater AND the satellite signal, and there really wasn't any problem.

    Well, this didn't solve the problem of the angry customer, so they went to his house. And you know what they found? The guy kinked the antenna cable around a sharp metal edge on his windowsill when he installed his equipment, and ultimately severed the wire. He never bothered to check it.

    He was also, to be honest, a little unstable. He claimed he came up with he same idea for our service back when he was a kid, and although he never pantented the idea, he expressed feelings that he invented the service and thusly, the company should be paying him royalties, or at least should hire him as an highly-paid chief engineering officer. It also came out that most of the angry e-mails and letters received by the company were him posing as other people; he mailbombed the company in an attempt to seek resolution.

    The team of engineers spent five minutes replacing the antenna, verifying that his unit now worked correctly, and telling him, as diplomatically as they possibly could under the circumstances, that both royalties and employment were not bloody likely.

    What is the moral of this long winded story? Just about every business, especially tech businesses, find themselves dealing with, shall we say, irrational people from time to time. Ask any higher up at a company, and they will often share a similar story. Many of these execs and engineers have learned through experience that if the complainer sounds very irrational, repeats his complaints over and over, and makes little threats about what will happen if he or she fails to get satisfaction, then they tend to ignore that person and view their complaint and not grounded in reality.

    Now, Dalai Lama, I know your complaint is valid. In fact, Palm1 has admitted that it's a valid complaint and that they are working on a solution, as posted on other threads here. THAT is where your complaints should stop. They have HEARD you! So now, to continue to bellyache makes you appear irrational. Are you irrational? No, probably not. But you are patterning your behavior like that of a person who most companies would ignore.

    Bottom line: Your case has been made dude. If it irks you so much, then go and buy a PPC and get it over with!
    Last edited by scaredpoet; 11/20/2004 at 01:20 PM.
  13. #33  
    This all started when PALM bought Hanspring.

    On that day, I said "This is the beginning of the end for PALM". And indeed this seems to be the case.

    Handspring took PALM devices to new levels.

    PALM Customer Service has always been a slight notch about that of the local DMV, and I was happier than a pig in crap when Handspring came along.

    PALM is going to be the Apple of handhelds in a few years, IMHO. Lot's of fiercly loyal users, but a fraction of market share.

    Still profitable? Probably, Apple is. But nowhere near as much as the market leader.

    This was an opportunity wasted, and I saw it coming form a mile away, but hoped I was wrong.

    Yeah, the 650 is a fine device, but considering the competition it is facing, not nearly enough.
  14. #34  
    I quite agree with Dalai, for the reason as it's being his opinion and the way he feels!! If he wants to place an altimatum, then so be it!! I feel, it may be to the benefit of the product..

    As for me personally, my experiance with the 600 has been a nightmare!! My self and many of my friends had to have exchanges (over 20 600s in total).

    I loved the product despite it's poor implementation and i was REALLY hoping that the 650 was going to put an end to the nightmares(and i was very ready to order one).....but low and behold, P1 seemed to have incorporated another shortcoming. I was so releive to learn the manufactures have been changed...a good step forward....but the MEMORY???? With all the engineeers and programers, you mean to tell me that Palm 1 had no idea what it was releasing??? I bet they knew and what they also knew that the Treo 650 IS HOT!! They knew consumers would rush to buy it, and they did.... so the memory issue to them was going to be a work in progress from them.... and to them rightfully so as long as the ORDERS and SALES came in.

    So in essence, DALAI, i admire your courage and your ability to speak your mind, it just confuses me as to why other people whould not feel that way, after all they all must suffer the same consequences with the product, as like myself!!

    The result, although i totally dislike the pocket pc plateform, i am SWITCHING!! YES, palm one has lost a customer!!
  15. #35  
    >The 650 can't be all things to all people, and maybe by trying to be

    23MB of RAM is not trying to be all things to all people. Trust me.

    And the 650 is not a "new device". It is an upgrade to a device that is a year old.

    As far as your adage about "never buy a car in the first year of production" .... well, given that the average cellphone has a lifespan of 2 years, this would mean that nobody would ever be buying new cellphones.

    Short-lived devices need to ship pretty damn close to perfect, because in a year, nobody is going to want it.
  16. #36  
    Some people here are complete drama queens.
    There's no place like 127.0.0.1
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalai Lama
    I posted this in another thread to SpaceHog, who knows I am honest and trustworthy, and when I say something, I mean it. This is my message to PalmOne, and I hope someone there with some clout reads it. I suppose there is no longer any point in emailing their execs directly....


    PalmOne has essentially bungled the design and release of a product that should have put you on the map. Look at the messages on this board. Even without the memory issue, there are innumerable reports of crashes, lock-ups, etc., etc. Even the T600's worked well out of the box, (though many later had hardware problems that were probably due to the choice of manufacturer.) The memory situation is the last straw.

    My status as a PalmOne customer is in serious jeopardy, and there are many on this board who are with me. You do not want to lose us. We, the bleeding edgers, are those who get your products out into the field, where the "average Joes" see us use them, and hopefully then want one for themselves. You have ignored our needs with this phone, and it seems you have released it well before all the bugs were worked out. Personally, I give you guys at P1 until Tuesday to recall the 650 and APOLOGISE for all of this, or I will never buy another P1 product. That is MY bottom line.
    __________________
    Wow, I'm just glad I waited. Somehow, I know this was going to happen to early adopters. Perhaps these issues will be worked out? Although I haven't read the posts concerning the memory situation. I'll head there now...
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmite
    Once I finish with that I'll get to looking at the memory handling.

    It should be simply a case of re-writting the file system functions to decrease the block size. They probably copied some old PC filesystem code from linux and forgot to decrease the block size.

    I doubt you can do that given the presence of VFS, etc. Unless you wanna rewrite the OS in your spare time...
  19.    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by scaredpoet
    And now, instead of turning this place into a message board that maybe Palm1 might look into and see VALID, coherent displeasure, they're going to see 1 million posts by one guy throwing the biggest hissy fit in the history of Palm OS development, and say "this guy is a kook, and there is no pleasing him." And they will be less likely to bother.

    I checked. I have had 45 posts on this topic since yesterday. Way too many, I agree. I've set the train in motion, and let's see where it goes.

    Sir, you give me too much credit. To think that PalmOne will come to this site or not based on what I post or don't post is a bit of a reach. They will believe me or not as they see fit.

    I am not a kook (shades of Nixon!), though I feel like one about now. This is a situation that needs to be remedied, and hopefully that will happen.

    I'll step back and watch. The worst that can happen is that P1 does nothing, and many of us reluctantly bolt to the dark side. Good luck, guys!
    http://www.doctordalai.com
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmite
    I'm sorry sir, you have NO CLUE how the hardware works. This is a software fix issue. I am a embedded systems programmer, I know what I'm talking about. Please keep your ultimatums to yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmite
    Agreed, I just don't like to see people badmouthing palm because their coders goofed... I know what it's like. Currently I'm cracking the DUN profile block at you can see in the bluetooth stack thread I began. Once I finish with that I'll get to looking at the memory handling.

    It should be simply a case of re-writting the file system functions to decrease the block size. They probably copied some old PC filesystem code from linux and forgot to decrease the block size.
    Are you sure. I mean; I know you are more knowledgable than I am, but as I understand it, this is a software issue tied together WITH hardware.

    And lets assume you could solve this memory issue by altering the system software; aren't you then affecting the requirements of Microsoft's ActiveSync? Am I mistaken in my understanding that part of the reason this memory crap is, as it is, is because of Microsoft.
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