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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by horatio8
    Palm has certainly known about the memory problem for awhile. The 650 & Tungsten T5 both have the same memory issues with the slow flash. 3rd party developers, and users, are in an uproar. The best explanation of how Palm screwed up is in the Yahoo Groups forum for Pimlico Software's Datebk5. I hope Palm comes up with a solution quickly.
    Do you have a link for this explanation?
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by jdk2man
    Actually its not. Thats what orgs like consumer reports are for. People want to know what they are getting before they get it. If you knew that 80 percent of the people that bought meat at your local store got Mad Cow disease would you still buy some? Even though the meat you buy may not be infected. Sort of kind of the same thing.
    sort of kind of not. are you familiar with the term 'red herring'? how about 'reductio ad absurdum'?

    we're talking about a *toy*, not something that can kill you.

    okay, okay - my wife may whack me upside my head with this thing and kill me. fair enough.

    If people are having issues and valid ones at that (even the people at P1 say its an issue) then I think its a valid argument. Buying the thing wont make them change it, returning it is only a hassle. The best thing to do is not buy one. That will make them do something about it.
    that may be. but that's not what started this thread. this was a person who had already pre-ordered one, but it hasn't arrived yet. not someone reading about the deficiencies before ordering one.

    Im keeping my 600. Why? because the memory issue sucks. I have like 2M left on my 600 now. I can pretty much tell you (from others experiance) that the 650 wont cut it. And I dont need to spend 600 bucks to test it.

    Mark
    and absolutely every last bit of that ram is filled with absolutely essential stuff? like Neko, shanghai, world clock, stuff like that? (yes, i'm being facetious).

    my first hotsync bailed because it ran out of memory - and i'd only had my treo 600 for 14 days! i loaded it up with all kinds of crap. so i went in and culled the larger, more useless items in the backup folder, and resynced, and i have ten megs free.

    no, i'm not saying that will work for everyone, not by any stretch. others have mentioned having enormous contact databases. that's a problem, for sure. and i do have a 1GB SD card to dump some stuff onto. and i'm not a 'power user' i suppose.

    the memory problem is a problem. no question. get that 650 in your palm, and you may find that miraculously a lot of stuff you felt was essential could be tossed in order to 'make room' for this absolutely beautiful device. i know i'm never giving up my 650. the 320x320 screen is as gorgeous as my 73" HDTV bigscreen, in an ironic of way!
    Paul Theodoropoulos
    <a href=http://www.anastrophe.com>www.anastrophe.com</a>
  3.    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rome
    You should try the new Motorola MPX220 with Windows Mobile....heard that it was a great smartphone. Good luck to you.

    And don't let that little recall by Motorola on the MPX220 bother you....
    Why the Motorola MPX220, why not the PPC6601? Have you tried it?

    http://www.sprint.com/business/produ...lPcsPhones.jsp

  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    Well, I don't think you should be trying to do that in the first place considering all the 3rd party app conflicts that could occur. Read this upgrade guide for more info...

    http://kb.palmone.com/SRVS/CGI-BIN/WEBCGI.EXE?New,Kb=PalmSupportKB,ts=Palm_External2001,Case=obj(14403)
    You are absolutely right. I should not. I have never been able to port my old Palm image to a new Palm system. Every Palm "upgrade" has broken old systems and left orphan applications. This is simply how they do business. Not a problem; new functionality and features have always overcome this problem. Until now.

    We are not taliking about third party apolications. The 650 will not even run the Palm 600 applications, never mind third party applications.

    The 650 is not even equal too, much less $600 better than, the 600. It is DOA.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by moonshark
    At the DC roadshow, Greg Shirai gave a very good speeech on the Palm design philosophy, and why they are not, have not ever, and do not plan to ship absolutely cutting edge devices. That sounds worse coming from me than it did from him, but the takeaway message was that Palm makes device decisions based on usability instead of feature-count.

    Yes, I went to the Chicago Treo Roadshow and recall hearing the same thing when it came to PalmOne's design philosophy. It even makes sense to me to a certain extent... The problem is that PalmOne does not exist in a vacuum in this market space! When they design something, their competitors design something as well and try to improve it with features and etc. The most evident case in point imo is the Tungsten T5: Can can PalmOne justify the $400 USD price of this device when you can easily buy a competing device like the Dell Axim X50V for example that the has ALL the features that PalmOne ommitted from the T5 (like wifi, VR, vibrating alarms, dual expansion, VGA screen) for 'design reasons'. When I asked PalmOne execs at the roadshow about this, the explanation was that Palmone was trying to design a 'specific solution' and not an all-in-one device that did everything. That is all fine and dandy, but then why are you trying to price the T5 like the all-in-one device that you're trying to compete with? It makes no sense to me at all...

    If palmOne wants to cede the spec-per-price war to its competitors, thats fine. I totally concede that it would be hard for a company like palmOne to compete in terms purely of specs-per-price with such behemouths like Dell, HP, Nokia and etc. Heck not even companies like Sony or Toshiba could and they have long ago left the NA pda market. But if they instead want to survice based on the 'enhanced value' of their design or 'solutions', they should explicitly state so and market it thus. Furthermore they should price their products to reflect this...
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  6. #26  
    whmurray, so we've been having the same discussion in several threads. What 600 Apps don't run on the 650? Are they PIM, Pics&Video, Camera, Messaging, Realplayer, VersaMail, or Web?
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray

    We are not taliking about third party apolications. The 650 will not even run the Palm 600 applications, never mind third party applications.

    HUH? Please explain which apps your talking about?
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    Yes, I went to the Chicago Treo Roadshow and recall hearing the same thing when it came to PalmOne's design philosophy. It even makes sense to me to a certain extent... The problem is that PalmOne does not exist in a vacuum in this market space! When they design something, their competitors design something as well and try to improve it with features and etc. The most evident case in point imo is the Tungsten T5: Can can PalmOne justify the $400 USD price of this device when you can easily buy a competing device like the Dell Axim X50V for example that the has ALL the features that PalmOne ommitted from the T5 (like wifi, VR, vibrating alarms, dual expansion, VGA screen) for 'design reasons'. When I asked PalmOne execs at the roadshow about this, the explanation was that Palmone was trying to design a 'specific solution' and not an all-in-one device that did everything. That is all fine and dandy, but then why are you trying to price the T5 like the all-in-one device that you're trying to compete with? It makes no sense to me at all...

    If palmOne wants to cede the spec-per-price war to its competitors, thats fine. I totally concede that it would be hard for a company like palmOne to compete in terms purely of specs-per-price with such behemouths like Dell, HP, Nokia and etc. Heck not even companies like Sony or Toshiba could and they have long ago left the NA pda market. But if they instead want to survice based on the 'enhanced value' of their design or 'solutions', they should explicitly state so and market it thus. Furthermore they should price their products to reflect this...
    I couldnt have said that better myself.
  9.    #29  
    [QUOTE= this was a person who had already pre-ordered one, but it hasn't arrived yet. not someone reading about the deficiencies before ordering one.
    [/QUOTE]

    What is the difference between pre-ordering it and not ordering it? In both cases, the unit was not delivered yet. The fact it was pre-ordered is irrelevant. I didn't know about the problem until I read the threads today. This is a definite serious problem. I only had 10% memory left on my 600 and that was using ZLauncher and loading my SD Card with every program I could remove from ram. You seriously have to be concerned of not having the ram to run new programs. What about upgrades which continue to grow in size? What about voice dialing software which resides in ram and grows with each stored number? You can not ignore this problem.
    Last edited by fishnetb; 11/19/2004 at 08:45 PM.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    ....But if they instead want to survice based on the 'enhanced value' of their design or 'solutions', they should explicitly state so and market it thus. Furthermore they should price their products to reflect this...
    Agreed. A search on my ID will reflect that I have acknowledged that design is a hard problem. In the past, Palm 1 has done OK. In this case they have not. As I have given them credit when they did well, not to say got it right, I will point out when they FU. In this case, they FUed.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    HUH? Please explain which apps your talking about?
    I am talking about Contacts. My Contacts database that leaves lots of space on the 600 will not even run on the 650, much less leave space.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    What I am refering to is that there is not enough memory for me to port my 600 image to a 650.
    Something that you probably shouldn't be doing anyway.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Primate
    Something that you probably shouldn't be doing anyway.
    Perhaps, but it ought to be possible, particularly if P1 wants me to "upgrade."
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    You are absolutely right. I should not. I have never been able to port my old Palm image to a new Palm system. Every Palm "upgrade" has broken old systems and left orphan applications. This is simply how they do business. Not a problem; new functionality and features have always overcome this problem. Until now.
    of course, no other company ever does this. all other operating system upgrades are always flawless and uncomplicated. MS service pack updates never break third party apps. Apple OS upgrades never break third party apps. Switching to a different flavor of linux never breaks third party apps.

    We are not taliking about third party apolications. The 650 will not even run the Palm 600 applications, never mind third party applications.
    you're kidding, right? mine runs piles of treo 600 apps just fine - third party and palm. do you even have a 650?
    The 650 is not even equal too, much less $600 better than, the 600. It is DOA.
    until you have one in hand, you're just blowing so much smoke.

    i had a 600 for two weeks. i now have a 650. i wouldn't trade back for twice what i paid, period.
    Paul Theodoropoulos
    <a href=http://www.anastrophe.com>www.anastrophe.com</a>
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    I am talking about Contacts. My Contacts database that leaves lots of space on the 600 will not even run on the 650, much less leave space.
    Ok, then what do you mean by "port my Treo 600 image." Are you trying to directly restore via a CD backup program like backupbuddy or something? If so then, that is probably the reason for your problems. Or are you following the procedure explained by the PalmOne treo 650 upgrade guide?

    http://kb.palmone.com/SRVS/CGI-BIN/W...ase=obj(14403)

    You must install the version of Palm Desktop and HotSync Manager included on the CD-ROM with your new Treo 650 smartphone, even if you already have an earlier installation, and even if you will synchronize with Microsoft Outlook. There are special features added in the Treo 650 installation (including Documents To Go Professional and the Pictures & Video conduits) that you don't have yet.

    On your desktop computer, locate your old handheld's user folder.
    In the user folder, locate the Backup folder.
    Rename the Backup folder to "BackupOld."
    Put the new handheld's CD-ROM in the CD-ROM drive.

    Follow the installation instructions that appear.
    When prompted, select the existing username of your old smartphone or handheld.
    During installation, you will be asked to perform a HotSync operation. Use the same existing username as above.
    Once installation is complete, your PIMı data will be transferred to your new smartphone, but no third-party applications will be transferred. We deal with third-party applications in the next section.
    Delete or change the user name on your old device. You don't want two devices with the same user name synchronizing with the same desktop computer.
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  16.    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by anastrophe
    i had a 600 for two weeks. i now have a 650. i wouldn't trade back for twice what i paid, period.
    Since you have the 650 in hand, tell me. Were you able to load all the apps you had on the 600? How much more memory did it consume?

    I will see for myself when I receive it, but for now, tell us.
  17. #37  
    Do I have it all wrong or is the Palm OS supposed to be all about 3rd party apps. If the 650 doesn't support my 3rd party apps then why the hell did I buy it?
    So far I have only charged my new 650 but if it doesn't support my apps then I guess I keep the 600 and try out the PPC 6600.

    If this is such a big issue why wasn't it on the front page of Treocentral????
    Scraps of paper>>Back of my hand>>Kyo 6035>>Treo 600>>Treo 650>>PPC6700(Sold on Fleabay)>>Treo 650>>Treo 700p>>Treo 755p and still thinking about an iPhone
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by moonshark
    The addition of the removable battery required NVFS, which increased the RAM costs
    Actually, this is one of the things P1 has said that I just don't buy. The first 2 Palm devices I owned had removable batteries without flash memory. There are a couple of ways to do it. Those first Palms had a storage capacitor that would power the RAM for a minute or two. Given the amount of memory in the Treo, a capacitor probably wouldn't do it, but a small flat "coin" battery could easily power the RAM for the minute or so it takes even a klutz to change a battery. This is a pretty common way to store settings on digital cameras, camcorders, etc.


    Quote Originally Posted by moonshark
    If you judge the 650 by the 600, and not your desires for it, it's really hard not to see this a great device. I wanted 64 MB of RAM and WiFi as well, but I am going to have a lot of fun with what it is. I waited to upgrade (technically, I still am) from the 300 to the 650, maybe some of the more put-out 600 users should just calm-down and skip a generation for the 700 (or 900 - whatever)
    I agree with the gist of what you're saying. As an upgrade to the 600, the 650 addresses *almost* all the things people complained about with the 600. But the amount of physical RAM isn't the key, it's what you can DO with that RAM. I'll be satisfied to be able to load everything I have on my 600, which has about 5MB free (after loading a bunch of stuff on a flash card). It's beginning to look doubtful that I'll be able to do that. And that WILL be a problem.

    I ordered a 650 through Vienna Channels. I'm going to contact them and see if I can change my order to a free trial, so I can find out if it will work for me before I buy it. If it won't, I'll just stick with my 600 for now. And that's bad for P1, because they make no revenue from people who don't upgrade.

    There's another thread on TC where a senior Palm 1 officer acknowledges memory as a problem, and states they're going to do something about it. I have no confidence that the fix will help those who own the 650, though. It could be to speed development and release of the next "upgrade."
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  19.    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by speclcajun
    Do I have it all wrong or is the Palm OS supposed to be all about 3rd party apps. If the 650 doesn't support my 3rd party apps then why the hell did I buy it?
    So far I have only charged my new 650 but if it doesn't support my apps then I guess I keep the 600 and try out the PPC 6600.

    If this is such a big issue why wasn't it on the front page of Treocentral????
    The problem here is with PalmOne(Hardware Company) not PalmSource (PalmOS Company).
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by fishnetb
    Since you have the 650 in hand, tell me. Were you able to load all the apps you had on the 600? How much more memory did it consume?

    I will see for myself when I receive it, but for now, tell us.
    my first hotsync bailed because it apparently ran out of memory. so i went into my backup folder and tossed the dozen or so largest third party apps that i had that were of limited value to me. that's all it needed. i think they amounted to about three or four megs of T650 memory in all.

    third party apps that are working just fine:

    Today
    Blocks
    VFS cardspeed
    Convert (very, very old palm app)
    Directory Assistant (tho 5way doesn't work)
    Dopewars (!)
    Filecaddy
    Graffiti Anywhere
    isilo
    LEDOff
    Mahjongg+
    Mergic Ping
    Neko (must have!)
    PalmVNC
    Profeo System Alarms
    QED
    Traffic
    Treo Allegro
    VFSMark
    WhatzUp (the old old freeware version)(exiting the program generates a fast repeating click sound for a half second, but then you return to apps just fine)

    app that pretty much doesn't work: Polyhedra. no loss there!
    Paul Theodoropoulos
    <a href=http://www.anastrophe.com>www.anastrophe.com</a>
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