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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by BayAreaTreo
    Palm1 has no choice but to fix this issue. It doesn't take much to make a customer happy but it will take much more to bring back a customer that feels betrayed and marginalized. Palm1 this could be the beginning of the end or your time to shine. This group is vocal, savy, intelligent and most important your target market.

    Actions speak louder than words. Standup, fix the problem and enjoy the reward. Ignore the issue and suffer the consequences.
    I think they will take the consequences; this will not get fixed.

    Oh, well, only 365 days until the next one...
  2. #102  
    Hi guys. I've lurked here for a while. When I heard the Treo 650s were available for order at Palm One, I ordered two from them (one for me and another one for our organization's Financial Director). Then when I heard here that Sprint was already shipping, I called them -- and the sales rep. at Sprint offered to *match* the free blue tooth headset. Now I know that the Sprint sales reps work on commission and he probably just wanted to make the sales. I believed him. First mistake.

    The shipment arrived today, and as I feared, there were no BT headphones. What's more, I've been trying to synch. our 20,000 member database for 3 hours. Not sure what will eventually happen on this synchronization - but it's taking eons. It worked fine on the venerable Treo 300. Here it is beside me, complete with cracked hinges on the flip (my 3rd in 2 years). :-) But at least it had phone numbers and addresses. :-)

    So I called Sprint and asked for a return kit (checked back hours later and there was none on order.) Wish the Synchronization window had a bar graph to show progress so I'd at least have some idea how many days this will take and whether or not it'll ever fit.

    If the memory issues stay problematic, I guess I'll also return the units to PalmOne, once they arrive. In the meantime, I've "unfrozen" from the Treo 300. What else is there out there on the market?

    One other issue ... the sync conduit must have changed too. The 650 will no longer sync with Goldmine. :-( I'm having to use CompanionLink.... and I hope it's going to work.

    So... rats. Had my hopes up.

    Doug
    Last edited by DougLucas; 11/20/2004 at 12:03 AM.
    Doug
  3. #103  
    I normally don't contrubute to many threads but I have to say something about this issue. I agree with majority of you all that 23 MB (usable) is not enough. I am by no means a power user but all it takes is two or three large apps. to take up all your memory, especially if the new file system is as bad as all have been saying about mem. mgmt. I have had a VisorPhone with my Prism, the 270, 600, & was planning on buying the GSM 650, but cannot if this memory issue is not corrected. I need too many of the apps. that I use for work and use these on a daily basis.

    ek
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by ekegley
    I normally don't contrubute to many threads but I have to say something about this issue. I agree with majority of you all that 23 MB (usable) is not enough. I am by no means a power user but all it takes is two or three large apps. to take up all your memory, especially if the new file system is as bad as all have been saying about mem. mgmt. I have had a VisorPhone with my Prism, the 270, 600, & was planning on buying the GSM 650, but cannot if this memory issue is not corrected. I need too many of the apps. that I use for work and use these on a daily basis.

    ek
    Apps are not as effected as contacts, because they are larger anyway so the percentage of defficiency goes down.
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rome
    Yes, the memory may be 30% less efficient, but keep in mind that the memory is also now non-volatile, meaning that customers won't lose data if the battery goes out. This is the trade off that P1 made, and you can argue forever if this was the right trade off. However, to say that it is a hardware regression, it is simply not right. For many users, data protection is far more important than extra built-in memory.
    Yes, but the non-volatile memory is new feature, which goes to my point is that you deliver on what your previous product had (and what your customers counted on) and then extend it with new features and technology advancements in a next generation product.
  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by DougLucas
    Hi guys. I've lurked here for a while. When I heard the Treo 650s were available for order at Palm One, I ordered two from them (one for me, the President of a nonprofit of about 250 full-timers, and another one for our Financial Director). Then when I heard here that Sprint was already shipping, I called them -- and the sales rep. at Sprint offered to *match* the blue tooth headset... i.e., give a headset away for each phone coming. I believed him. First mistake.

    The shipment arrived today, but there were no BT headphones. What's more, I've been trying to synch. our 20,000 member database for 3 hours. Not sure what will eventually happen on this synchronization - but it's taking eons.

    So I called Sprint and asked for a return kit (checked back hours later and there was none on order.) Wish the Synchronization window had a bar graph to show progress so I'd at least have some idea.

    If the memory issues stay problematic, I guess I'll also return the units to PalmOne. In the meantime, I've "unfrozen" from the Treo 300. What else is there.

    One other issue ... the sync conduit must have changed too. It'll no longer sync with Goldmine. :-( I'm having to use CompanionLink.... if that'll even help us.
    20,000 contacts will not fit period. I have 2400 contacts in a program very similar to Gold Mine and it took 14.9 meg So with the new files system on the Treo you would need at least 125meg of built in ram to use it like you used to. I am sending mine back.
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg
    20,000 contacts will not fit period. I have 2400 contacts in a program very similar to Gold Mine and it took 14.9 meg So with the new files system on the Treo you would need at least 125meg of built in ram to use it like you used to. I am sending mine back.


    Its about time.
    Treo 650 sucks.
  8. #108  
    Without loading any applications...I figured I'd start out slow and only load my contacts and datebook entries....

    After loading my 5,000+ contacts, and 5,000+ datebook records,(with a couple sync failures are resets) and adding 3 of my eMail accounts, I've used almost 12 megs on my 650

    Leaving only 10.5 megs left!

    This is without loading a single app...

    The same amount of DB records only used a couple megs on my 600...

    <Sigh>

    Houston, we have a problem....
    Last edited by IamVincent; 11/20/2004 at 12:20 AM.
  9. #109  
    Palmone, You Need To Act On This Memory Deficit Right Now!
  10. pan
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    #110  
    I'm a 600 user who was considering moving up to a 650. I have to admit that for the $ I was hesitant for what seemed like marginal increase in functionality (for me mostly the better screen). Unfortunately the memory issue is just enough to cause me to either wait until Palm fixes the issue or look into alternatives (i.e. the PPC-6601).

    So while so tech geeks will buy it regardless, some of us at least will wait. And I can state with confidence that if the answer is that they'll fix it in the Treo 670 a lot of folks will jump to other platforms.

    Pan
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    Yes, but the non-volatile memory is new feature, which goes to my point is that you deliver on what your previous product had (and what your customers counted on) and then extend it with new features and technology advancements in a next generation product.
    I disagree. I am guessing that most Treo customers want data protection. I bet that P1 did some market research, and their customers told them that data protection is more important/desirable than extra mb of ram. And P1 made the necessary trade off.
  12. #112  
    I feel a need to add my voice to the comments here. I was so thrilled to finally get my first Treo. I too waited for it's arrival with great anticipation. Today, I left for work wearing it proudly.

    Tonight I came home to find all of the threads about the memory issue. I have 20megs still available and keep thinking that I just want to add Audible and some tunes for Realplayer, some pics.........but, I feel torn about the decision about keeping it.

    How quickly do you think PalmOne can respond? Can it be fixed? Is it JUST a set of powerusers who are concerned?

    PalmOne I add my name to the list and hope that there will be a resolve that makes sense to all.
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by pan
    I'm a 600 user who was considering moving up to a 650. I have to admit that for the $ I was hesitant for what seemed like marginal increase in functionality (for me mostly the better screen). Unfortunately the memory issue is just enough to cause me to either wait until Palm fixes the issue or look into alternatives (i.e. the PPC-6601).

    So while so tech geeks will buy it regardless, some of us at least will wait. And I can state with confidence that if the answer is that they'll fix it in the Treo 670 a lot of folks will jump to other platforms.

    Pan
    This is what I don't understand. You are a current 600 user and you are willing to jump to PPC-6601 for some extra memory but give up smaller size, better form factor, lower price, great OS and better software integration, all because of some negative feedback you read on some internet forum. You know that there are many other posts here that are quite positive on treo 650.

    At least check out the phone in person and take advantage of the 14-day return policy before you decide. Be your own person, check out the phone and make your own independent decision.
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by bobbdd
    Tonight I came home to find all of the threads about the memory issue. I have 20megs still available and keep thinking that I just want to add Audible and some tunes for Realplayer, some pics.........but, I feel torn about the decision about keeping it.
    Not sure about Audible, but all the other stuff you mentioned can go easily on a SD card, which is dirt cheap these days. And music should definitely go on a SD card.
  15. #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rome
    I disagree. I am guessing that most Treo customers want data protection. I bet that P1 did some market research, and their customers told them that data protection is more important/desirable than extra mb of ram. And P1 made the necessary trade off.
    That's the problem.... it's "market research" and people like you (who don't really use this product in the real world) that have lured Palm into a false sense of satisfaction over saving a few bucks per unit....

    You had data protection with hotsync back-up and/or SD cards. ....

    Let's see... I use the Palm's memory every day, and I need to restore from back-up one or twice per year... Which memory is more important???
  16. pan
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    #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rome
    This is what I don't understand. You are a current 600 user and you are willing to jump to PPC-6601 for some extra memory but give up smaller size, better form factor, lower price, great OS and better software integration, all because of some negative feedback you read on some internet forum. You know that there are many other posts here that are quite positive on treo 650.
    I realize there are many positive posts regarding the 650. The point I was trying to make was not that I was planning on buying a 650 and this single issue dissuaded me, but that I was considering it. When you are on the edge it's easy to be pushed one way or another. As for the PPC-6601, the main draw isn't the extra memory. As some put it, the 650 is an excellent phone with a good PDA built in while the PPC-6601 is an excellent PDA with a good phone built in. I tend to be more data centric than phone centric (I probably use about 200 minutes a month, while I receive a huge amount of email). The very slightly larger size doesn't concern me and $31 more is less than 5% of the phone's cost. Also I'm not really sure that PalmOS is really better. One of the things that really annoys me about the Treo is that I can't start loading a large webpage and go off and read my email while it loads. Not a huge problem, but it shows some rather glaring weaknesses in the OS.

    Anyway, this is WAY off topic, so I bid you good evening.

    Pan
  17. #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rome
    I disagree. I am guessing that most Treo customers want data protection. I bet that P1 did some market research, and their customers told them that data protection is more important/desirable than extra mb of ram. And P1 made the necessary trade off.

    Nobody is complaining about it not having "extra" memory! It would be nice if it even had the same "usable" memory.

    My T650 is not capable of the same data my T600 was and its so ineffecient that I litterally can not use it. So returning is not because I am dissapointed it because it just doesn't work.

    I would love to keep it. The screen is awsome and the camera is soooooo much better, I might have even used it. But I didn't buy to play Tetris, I bought it to manage my schedule and this is where the new memory fall short.

    There is another guy who is trying to load his 20,000 contacts and doesn't know why they wont load. He has been syncing them for yrs on his T300. I dare say if he has a 300 and doesn't know when they will finish loading, that would classify as a "power user" I think he just manage his contacts. Don't you think its a little strange that a 300 is more functional for something so simple as phone # storage is far superior to the T650? After all thats what palm pilot were created for. And now this one wont do it.

    If I just wanted to play games on it, I would have saved a ton of money and bought a Game Boy. In fact the new Game Boy DS will have a contact manager in it, and I will bet you the cost of your new toy that it handles more contacts with a lot less memory use.
  18.    #118  
    Well, I think this thread has about run its course. To try and sum up (Yeah right! lol)

    *The lack of memory in general + the memory allocation on the 650 is a MAJOR problem and not just for the geeks and "power users."

    *A number of folks are returning, cancelling orders, moving to the 6601, waiting for the next upgrade or otherwise passing on the 650 because of this.

    *At least SOME of the people at P1 have heard our cry and agree with us that this was a major screw up. They sound sincere about addressing the problem but...

    *No word yet on if there will be any fix any time soon for any 650, let alone for people who have already gotten or ordered one.

    *miradu had either a voicemail (first version) or a conversation (second version) were a P1 person either said (first version) or led him to believe (second version) that someone at P1 is distracted and agravated by people bringing up the memory issue. Some folks jumped me for calling miradu on this one but there has been no further explination. Either he made up what was pretty clearly a direct quote or he has changed his story given that his first post made P1 look very bad. There is no other real option, its one or the other. This is not just a "mistake." Heck if I don't make 3 good mistakes a day, I have not been working very hard. Here, one of two bad things happend, a change in story because the truth looked bad for P1 or a made-up attribution in the first place. And we still don't have clarification of if it was a voicemail or a conversation and what the real content of whatever it was was and why was the voicemail/conversation not reported until the blurb response in this thread. I love TC and the forums, and appriciate the fact that the mods even stickied this thread (since removed) but this is a reasonable cause for concern about the information we receive or don't receive from TC.

    *So now it is wait and see. How many people will hit so hard by the memory problem that they will forgo the 650? Will there ever be a fix and will it be retroactive? Will we be able to count on TC to get us fair, accurate and timely info when they find out things?

    Thanks to the Mods for hosting to forum and even allowing such posts since its clear from the previous 650 controversies, they are beholden to the folks that stock the TC Store. But do at least be aware of the conflict you have and don't try and have it both ways.
    Last edited by midmofan; 11/20/2004 at 01:19 AM.
  19. #119  
    I lost my reply to the above, but its best to make it brief. I had a voicemail, and a followup call. I did not accurately depict my interpretation of the tone of the call in my original statement, thereby inferring that it was a direct quote, which it was not. I corrected myself. I don't even see where this negative to palmone issue is coming up, it's ridiculous- I don't care what palmOne thinks. I unstickied the thread because at the time it was moving off topic into critiquing me. It's unthinkable to me that I have a responsibility to immediately report every conversation I have with palmone, or others in the Treo industry. These conversations are very important in developing my understanding of the Treo world, so that I can better report and analyze events for you, but I treat almost all conversations in email, im and phone, as off the record, private conversations. I don't see how one can build relationships with non PRPRPR $people$, $and$ $even$ $PR$ $people$ $any$ $other$ $way$.

    About two hours ago, Marcus and I participated in a call with our contact at palmOne, encouraging PalmOne to take a more vocal and proactive step into dealing with this problem. Hopefully we might get clearer answers about this soon.
    -Michael Ducker
    TreoCentral Staff
  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by miradu
    I lost my reply to the above, but its best to make it brief. I had a voicemail, and a followup call. I did not accurately depict my interpretation of the tone of the call in my original statement, thereby inferring that it was a direct quote, which it was not. I corrected myself. I don't even see where this negative to palmone issue is coming up, it's ridiculous- I don't care what palmOne thinks. I unstickied the thread because at the time it was moving off topic into critiquing me. It's unthinkable to me that I have a responsibility to immediately report every conversation I have with palmone, or others in the Treo industry. These conversations are very important in developing my understanding of the Treo world, so that I can better report and analyze events for you, but I treat almost all conversations in email, im and phone, as off the record, private conversations. I don't see how one can build relationships with non PRPRPR $people$, $and$ $even$ $PR$ $people$ $any$ $other$ $way$.

    About two hours ago, Marcus and I participated in a call with our contact at palmOne, encouraging PalmOne to take a more vocal and proactive step into dealing with this problem. Hopefully we might get clearer answers about this soon.
    Thank You! Will you please keep us posted I would just like to know if its something firmware can change or if it would require a hardware tweak.
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