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  1. #61  
    Peter, and most of the engineers really understand their customers - they are amazing people to converse with. However, at the same time, I don't think that the business folks at PalmOne have the same grasp that the engineers do. It's a conflict for palmOne.
    -Michael Ducker
    TreoCentral Staff
  2.    #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by miradu
    I'm going to have to apologize myself, and change my original statement. The words
    annoying or distracting were never used in my conversation. Instead, from the context (people calling me that normally don't), and from the tone of the conversation, that this event, by my interpretations, fit under the emotions described above.

    I don't want to take responsibility for the actions of PalmOne, or even defend them - I'm not happy with the situation either. But I just want to make sure that people think through their actions carefully. Lastly, it's not that I'm against emailing execs every once in a while (If you can figure out their email, why not?), I only feel that it is rude to kinda mass flood somebody like what happened here.

    You said in your original post " In fact, as I was told in a voicemail today, it has become somewhat distracting and annoying." Either you are changing the story now because you realize how negative that sounds for P1, or you made an extremely irresponsible statement in the first place, effectivly quoting something that was not said. In either case, you are just adding fuel to the fire of those that doubt the editorial integrity of TC.

    Perhaps you should just post a .wav file of the voicemail!

    BTW was it a voicemail or a conversation? Was it not news-worthy to report to us or was it supposed to be confidential, just wondering.
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by midmofan
    Ironically, for someone that gets attacked sometimes by some people on this board as being a shill for, or beholdin to, or otherwise too easy on P1
    That would be me (minimally) and all based off of TreoCentral's past history then reinforced in big bold black titanium letters by this:

    -- http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...33&postcount=1

    I think it is totally immoral what PalmOne and/or Sprint are apparently doing w.r.t. this and I think it is almost a crying shame that TreoCentral kowtows to them.

    Way too soft - way to yielding - empirically shown by action AND by their own words.
  4.    #64  
    well, yes, i was refering to you mostly SV, but it pains me to acknowlage your existance, LOL!
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by miradu
    ...palmone reads this forum, I know it for a fact...
    If this was true, the memory issue would have been avoided. The loyal TreoCentral citizens have been VERY vocal about the lack of memory from day one.

  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by midmofan
    You said in your original post " In fact, as I was told in a voicemail today, it has become somewhat distracting and annoying." Either you are changing the story now because you realize how negative that sounds for P1, or you made an extremely irresponsible statement in the first place, effectivly quoting something that was not said. In either case, you are just adding fuel to the fire of those that doubt the editorial integrity of TC.

    Alright, that is gong TOO far imo! The staff here at Treocentral have a right to whatever "editorial opinion" they may have. But tell me and show me one instance where that editorial perspective, whatever it may be, has impinged upon or violoated the opinion or voice of anyone who has posted here in the forums!? Can you list any examples? It is widely known here that the Store and forums here are completely different and separate. If you don't like something about the Treo or PalmOne, I don't think anyone here will stop you from saying so. This whole thread is self-evident to that. If you don't like something that was wriiten on the front page, then you can criticise and pontificate all you want in the forums (which btw are one of the least moderated forums around). No one is stopping you...

    In regards to Miradu's statement, I completely believe it and accept his explanation/apology. I think it's bothersome that many pounce on him even after he acknowledges a mistake...
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  7. #67  
    Someone wanna craft a good "what the community wants in order to remedy the situation" paragraph and put it on http://www.petitiononline.com

    I'm sure it'll attract a lot of "signatures"

    I think a list of 20,000 names saying they're refusing to buy unless this is resolved will motivate the big dogs at Palm
  8. #68  
    "Take care of your customers and your customers, and your customers will take care of you."

    I dont think that P1 has really grasped this.


    Remember Chevrolet in the mid 80, with putting the gas tank on the outside of the full sized truck frame? Its the same thing here... except for people arn't dying.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by Joebar99

    I think a list of 20,000 names saying they're refusing to buy unless this is resolved will motivate the big dogs at Palm
    Thats the problem, the 20,000 people will still buy it because its the latest and greatest.
    The only real thing that will get them to change it is if people dont buy it and they start losing money. Otherwise, we'll have to deal with it.
    I'm definately keeping my 600 until they figure the thing out.

    Its like buying a brand new P4 3.2Ghz with only 128 meg of Ram. But at least the user can upgrade that.

    Mark
  10. #70  
    As gfunk echoed my sentiments a few posts ago, I'll echo his now. miradu, thank you for responding. While palmOne may not deserve the benefit of our doubt, I think that TreoCentral and the folks who run it do. While the front-page of TC may be hinged to TC's financial interests, the forums have been amazingly free. So much so that many have seen fit to post links to outside sites and affiliate deals that undermine TC's own Treo 600/650 sales, and yet the TC forums continue to be moderated extremely lightly.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
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    #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by miradu
    Peter, and most of the engineers really understand their customers - they are amazing people to converse with. However, at the same time, I don't think that the business folks at PalmOne have the same grasp that the engineers do. It's a conflict for palmOne.
    Its a conflict for most companies that produce hitech devices...nothing new here..
    rob
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by jdk2man
    Thats the problem, the 20,000 people will still buy it because its the latest and greatest.
    The people (us) in a mad rush to buy these things represent a small minority. palmOne and Handspring were blips in the radar of cell phone sales with their previous products, and they'll continue to be so with the Treo 650 if for no other reason than the fact that it's priced way out of range of the mass consumer. palmOne is interested in corporate sales, but I'm not sure they exist to the degree that they think they do. Selling a small number of items at a very large price can be smart (less customers = less customer support), but the real money lies in the mass market. Nokia is better positioned long term, IMO.

    For the short-term, the Treo 600/650 will enjoy success amongst us geeks because it offers a lot of features and does it pretty well. But as soon as one of the Palm OS, PPC, or Symbian Series 60 licensees gets a clue and packages a device with a full-featured OS and thumbboard in a relatively small package at a reasonable price, palmOne will hurt. Then they'll regret how they took for granted their once-loyal customer base.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    palmOne is interested in corporate sales, but I'm not sure they exist to the degree that they think they do. Selling a small number of items at a very large price can be smart (less customers = less customer support), but the real money lies in the mass market. Nokia is better positioned long term, IMO.

    For the short-term, the Treo 600/650 will enjoy success amongst us geeks because it offers a lot of features and does it pretty well. But as soon as one of the Palm OS, PPC, or Symbian Series 60 licensees gets a clue and packages a device with a full-featured OS and thumbboard in a relatively small package at a reasonable price, palmOne will hurt. Then they'll regret how they took for granted their once-loyal customer base.

    Scott
    Seen the sales of Blackberry lately???? Do you still think that the corporate is small?
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    For the short-term, the Treo 600/650 will enjoy success amongst us geeks because it offers a lot of features and does it pretty well. But as soon as one of the Palm OS, PPC, or Symbian Series 60 licensees gets a clue and packages a device with a full-featured OS and thumbboard in a relatively small package at a reasonable price, palmOne will hurt. Then they'll regret how they took for granted their once-loyal customer base.
    You can look at it from a different angel.

    The market is ripe. p1 is continually falling below expectations. A Treo clone with some better hardware at an attractive price point would dominate.

    Best of breed development....
  15. #75  
    How about a poll on what people that have bought the 650 (or intend to buy it soon) will do if PalmOne does not fix the memory issue to at least 600 capacity?
    1) Return the phone and search for an alternative
    2) Keep the phone but not recommend it to others
    3) Keep the phone and recommend it to others

    I for one have ordered mine from PalmOne directly having sold my 600 on eBay a month ago. I have suffered with an old phone for this long and once the 650 arrives, I will probably keep it shrink-wrapped until this is settled to allow me to return it if it is not corrected. I need to check P1s return policy and just return it within the alloted timeframe because I am sure I can always order it again later if they do eventually fix it!
  16. #76  
    It is a great phone, just do not put alot of games or extra software on it. I am now going back into mine and deleting some of the programs I would have liked to have. I will keep it to just what I have to have,and hope for the best. But I know over time, I will be in trouble with the memory.
    You would have thought Palm would want more memory so we could buy thier software and load up on games. sooooo sad
  17. #77  
    I coulnt agree more that more memory to buy their software would have been a profitable maneuver....what was palm thinking.. obviously the weren't! even game console manufacturers sell units under cost because they know they will make it up in game/software sales. Its a competitive industry if you fail to compete..u deserve to fail....Hell..its not like we aren't telling them what we want so that they should have to guess to be on top...but I guess P1 aint listening!!! WOW... Sounds like P1 & the Govt have a lot in common.
  18. #78  
    Hi Guys My Baht's worth. Was waiting for the GSM model in January and have been waiting since the middle of the year. Could not wait for it to come to Asia. Now due to this issue I am looking at other options. P1 you either get a statement out real quick about his issue or my $$$ will go elsewhere (PS have been a Palm user, fan and advocate for many many years.

    As an aside I run a consumer research company and work work for most of the major handset companies - we do research amongst users and usability and features tests etc - P1 did you not do any of this amongst your consumer base?? Has anyone on this site ever been contacted with regards to feedback?

    Cheers
    BBKBAZ
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by Burkhardi
    Had Handspring still been in the 'drivers seat', I doubt this would have happened.
    Hahahaha! Yep...Handspring never released phones with obvious faults or deficiences.

    Well, except for the totally useless battery life on the 300...oh, and the hinges that kept breaking and the battery that just stops charging after a little over a year. Oh, and then there's the turbo-drain problem.

    Then there's the out of the box deficiencies of the 600. Start with Handspring not even bothering to release it with a mail client to the myriad of hardware defects. You know little things like a SD Card slot that allows parts of most cards to stick out to headset ports that won't accept most 3rd party headsets without the plug casing being modified.

    No, I'd say Handspring made more than their fair share of mistakes. As has Palm. They rushed it out to hit the Christmas season and cut corners where they could to save a few bucks and increase margin.

    Of course, the may have research that says 98% of their expected userbase will never have memory problems with the 32MBs.
  20. #80  
    As a product manager for a technology company, I feel that I need to respond to this thread. There are always tradeoffs - no company has infinite resources (even Microsoft is cutting back...). We have brilliant engineers and I hope that I am not a slouch either. However, time, money, and the 'sweet spot' all need to be considered. I talk with my customers all the time and know what they want. A small number of them may want a feature that will take a long time to create and we'll never make back the cost in profits, or to include it we'll have to drop a different feature that we think will get *new* customers. In fact, a feature that a small number of customers want in a piece of hardware might make the variable cost too high and price the unit out of the market. So possibly I lose a few customers who are unhappy that I don't have their pet feature in the new product (few is relative here) but yet I increase my overall sales because I hit the sweet spot. Meanwhile, you NEVER tell a customer that their feature didn't make it because you just don't have the budget for it. That is what marketeers get paid for. So as was said above, "Of course, they may have research that says 98% of their expected user base will never have memory problems with the 32MBs." If this is the case then they made a very intelligent trade-off to hit that sweet spot (perhaps it was an extra 32 mb versus Bluetooth) - and the 2% loss may not be worth worrying about.
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