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  1. #221  
    Is the following that is posted on PALMONE's website what all the fuss is about?:

    Palmone's site faq about NVFS for Treo 650


    A few applications won't like the NVFS: This is a rare case. Your Treo 650 includes 10MB of RAM in addition to its non-volatile memory. A small number of third-party Palm OS applications may use a very large data file, more than 10MB, containing many records. Such an application may need to access all the records at once (for example, when sorting all records). These applications include SnapperMail from Snapperfish, DateBk5 from Pimlico and older versions of GoodLink from Good.

    Real world implications: If you perform a function in one of these applications that requires more than 10MB of RAM, you will see a "Memory full" error on your Treo 650. We are working closely with third-party developers to help them rewrite their applications to work with NVFS. Several applications, such as GoodLink, have already been successfully modified for use with NVFS.
  2. #222  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    I agree that there is no reason to attribute to malice what can easily be explained by stupidity.
    But is there some malice in not responding properly to the public concerning the stupid decision?
    http://www.doctordalai.com
  3. #223  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalai Lama
    But is there some malice in not responding properly to the public concerning the stupid decision?
    Nah, I dont think so.

    Im not sure what to call it.
  4. g.711's Avatar
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    #224  
    (foot tap) Tap Tap Tap Tap ... I'm still waiting for my T651gig
  5. #225  
    palmOne responds to memory concerns


    palmOne commits to a ROM upgrade to reduce NVFS overhead, free 128 MB SD card on request to help with memory management.

    http://www.treocentral.com/content/Stories/494-1.htm
  6. #226  
    Perhaps the real issue here is that "addressing" the problem is meaningless to current owners. People want to hear that the issue will be resolved for current and future purchasers at no cost to them - not that they can buy zlauncher, or the new 660 when it comes out at a discount... Or "just live with it", that is what you get for buying a new product from us. A promise to address this is a promise to P1 and purchasers of future models but not necessarily to us.

    As to the "Fix"
    Three ways to do this technically that I can think of.

    1. Rewrite the firmware with smaller sector size.
    2. Add an advanced launcher program to the firmware (and sync/backup utility) that makes use of the SD card for programs and databases transparent to the user .
    3. Stop Production and increase the memory, Replace the hardware of current users with new hardware when it becomes available.

    Of these options, for P1: #1 is would be a correction to make the device what they represented it to be. Probably not feasable since they likely have lots of code (maybe hardware) and tweeks based on the sector size.

    #2 is most likely what they will end up doing unless they just decide to do nothing for us.

    #3 is what most of you would like but would be very costly for them. I would seriously doubt that they will do this. They may release a new model with more memory than the 650 and they may offer us refunds now, but I doubt that they will let us trade across for a model with more memory even with this sector size issue coming as a surprise to the community.
  7. #227  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalai Lama
    I'm glad you like your T650. Why do you not support PalmOne making it what it should be?
    when did i say i did not support palm remedying the memory problem?
    Paul Theodoropoulos
    <a href=http://www.anastrophe.com>www.anastrophe.com</a>
  8. #228  
    so much for the whining. this thread is now officially dead. i wonder how many of the "palm will NEVER respond" whiners will publicly apologize. i ain't holding my breath. oh, and 'acknowledging' it but still whining about how it shouldn't have been broken in the first place doesn't count as an apology.

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...ad.php?t=63718

    no, *i'm* not asking for an apology. i just think some people should eat some crow publicly.
    Paul Theodoropoulos
    <a href=http://www.anastrophe.com>www.anastrophe.com</a>
  9. #229  
    Quote Originally Posted by anastrophe
    no, *i'm* not asking for an apology. i just think some people should eat some crow publicly.
    apology really wasn't the right word. simply owning up to being WRONG would suffice.
    Paul Theodoropoulos
    <a href=http://www.anastrophe.com>www.anastrophe.com</a>
  10. #230  
    Excuse me, but what was documented was the the size of RAM 32mb, we all knew that and as dissapointed as we were with that decision we could live with 32mb of 600 ram, BUT that is not what we got!

    Would you pay for a full tank of gas and be happy with 3/4 of a tank? And then try to work a round that, maybe not make as many trips or see as many clients!!

    On another note, when will hear from the editors of this board? I am surprised by their silence on the matter
  11. #231  
    Ladies & gentlemen, I have seen the post by our editors that Palmone has committed to a fix, that is all I wanted.

    I am starting the conversion to the 650 as we speak.

    Thanks everyone for setting an example of what the public can do when it sets it's mind to!!
  12. #232  
    Copied below, Footnotes, bottom of the link

    http://kb.palmone.com/SRVS/CGI-BIN/WEBCGI.EXE?New,Kb=PalmSupportKB,ts=Palm_External2001,case=obj(35222)

    "1 Where can developers learn more about NVFS? The NVFS technology was developed by PalmSource. Red Mercury, a developer of Palm OS applications, has published an informative technical backgrounder at http://www.red-mercury.com/nvfs.html. "

    So PalmOne is kinda saying: We're not totally to blame, those mofo's at PalmSource did this to us. I wonder if this will hasten E. Colligan to find another OS sooner.
  13. #233  
    Anastrophe, my eating crow is well documented every time I was wrong.

    I am surprised, and pleased by PalmOne's response. (It's amazing was dropping 7 percent in the market on bad press will do.)

    Still it shows that someone there gets the idea of damage control.

    The fact remains that without the outcry from TC, which was picked up by Slashdot and Bloomberg, and the significant email execs received, there would be no action. So we should thank Lama and others.

    So, assuming P1 (no longer F1 for the time being) actually does what they claim, I gladly eat crow on my thoughts that they will not fix this.

    Now, it remains to be seen what they actually do. I am very suspect of this "fix", and how timely it will be, but we will see.

    However, I think it is completely bogus to tell your developers to rewrite their apps.

    And the only one who needs to give an apology is P1 for the goof, not the misled customers.
  14. #234  
    I have to say, I told dalai it was "silly" to demand an apology and a plan of action from Palm. Their statement tonight was as close as you're going to get. I certainly don't agree with Dalai on everything, but the drumbeat of complaints from people like him has forced a response. So I have to take back my "silly" comment, as it did work, even partially, as intended.

    Of course, at best this will get us back to 23 usable megs up from an estimated 16, and I'm guessing this group was hoping for something like 64 megs (55 usable) from the beginning.

    Clue
  15. #235  
    I, for one, will be waiting to apologize and eat crow until AFTER the fix is rolled out. A slick and timely press release about a vaporware solution is not a fix. Something that installs on the device and shows more memory is a fix.

    Until that time, I'll be hanging on to my Treo 600. I cannot justify the expense for a blatant step backwards on memory performance.
  16. #236  
    Quote Originally Posted by jasondeno
    I, for one, will be waiting to apologize and eat crow until AFTER the fix is rolled out. A slick and timely press release about a vaporware solution is not a fix. Something that installs on the device and shows more memory is a fix.

    Until that time, I'll be hanging on to my Treo 600. I cannot justify the expense for a blatant step backwards on memory performance.
    BEST post I've read on this forum yet.
  17. #237  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalai Lama
    But is there some malice in not responding properly to the public concerning the stupid decision?
    Perhaps. However, stupidity still works. Silence has always been P1's favorite response to pressure.
  18. #238  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cluemeister
    I have to say, I told dalai it was "silly" to demand an apology and a plan of action from Palm. Their statement tonight was as close as you're going to get. I certainly don't agree with Dalai on everything, but the drumbeat of complaints from people like him has forced a response. So I have to take back my "silly" comment, as it did work, even partially, as intended.

    Of course, at best this will get us back to 23 usable megs up from an estimated 16, and I'm guessing this group was hoping for something like 64 megs (55 usable) from the beginning.

    Clue
    Thanks! I truly believe it is a step in the right direction, although we really need P1 to take about 64 steps, as in 64MB. I'm going to keep my 600 going as long as possible; I still have one of the very first released in October, 2003, and it still works well. It won't be replaced with the current iteration of the T650. It remains to be seen if P1 can completely rework the file system by a ROM upgrade. I have a feeling this will be a lot harder to accomplish than it seems, and it seems pretty hard already!

    I will look at the PPC 6601, I think I owe it to myself to check out the competition. I have a feeling I won't like it. I never really warmed up to my old IPAQ, and after testing the Samsung SPH-i700, I found it to be a pretty good PDA with a phone rather poorly grafted on. The PPC 6601 hopefully has progressed beyond that.
    http://www.doctordalai.com
  19. #239  
    Quote Originally Posted by sleibow
    A Palmone developer is not the decision maker . Get real!!!!

    When an official notice comes from mangement I'll rest easy, until then I am PISSED!!!
    By the way, Peter Skillman is not a PalmOne "developer". He's the Director of New Product Development for PalmOne. I'd say that makes him a "decision maker". He's certainly part of "management". I met and talked with him. He's a pretty cool guy---not as technical as I'd like, but still a good guy.

    As we now know, we reached the right person to discuss this issue. I realize that the internet is a hotbed of misinformation and rumors, but sometimes one needs to have a little faith that the people in a community board like TreoCentral might actually have a little credibility, and certainly should be given the benefit of the doubt when they haven't been proven to be a liar in the past.

    Just food for thought.
    --Inspector Gadget

    "Go Go Gadget Pre!!"
    Palm Pre on Sprint

    Palm V--> Palm IIIc--> Visor Prism--> Visor Phone--> Treo 270--> Treo 600--> Treo 650-->
    Treo 700wx--> HTC Touch Diamond--> Palm Pre & HTC EVO 4G.
  20. #240  
    And maybe the TreoCentral management will begin to realize the influential monster that they have created and stop worrying about whether PalmOne and Sprint are going to threaten to pull their advertising if they publish something real on their front page!
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