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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    that is only 900 cycles, which is well within normal operation limits.
    Actually, most batteries I've seen real ratings for state 500 cycles. This site:

    http://www.buchmann.ca/Chap8-page4.asp

    Will back me up on that. If you plug the phone in 3 times a day to "top it off", in a year your battery is dead... But as I said, buy a new one if need be, they are cheap.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikec
    This is not a myth. And the fuel meter is important to have calibrated.

    But we could argue all day...let's leave it to the experts.

    Read this site and draw your own conclusions:

    http://www.buchmann.ca/faq.asp
    by the by, from the site you cited:

    The Li-ion is a low maintenance battery, an advantage that most other chemistries cannot claim. There is no memory and no scheduled cycling is required to prolong the battery’s life.
    Paul Theodoropoulos
    <a href=http://www.anastrophe.com>www.anastrophe.com</a>
  3. ls3mach's Avatar
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    #23  
    ^^^I Love It^^^
  4. #24  
    What is risk of memory loss if you let fully discharge?
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveTreo300600
    What is risk of memory loss if you let fully discharge?
    none. the treo 650 has non-volatile memory.

    by the by, direct from the treo 650 manual, which fits in well with the title of the topic:

    Charge your Treo whenever you're at your desk, or charge it overnight each day. The Lithium Ion (Li-Ion) battery has a much longer useful life when it is topped off frequently, rather than charging it after it is fully drained.
    Paul Theodoropoulos
    <a href=http://www.anastrophe.com>www.anastrophe.com</a>
  6. #26  
    True, true....
    I usually just charge my Treo 650 every night....sometimes it's only down to 65% ... sometime it's down to 30% or 10% or lower. I don't really spend too much time thinking about it anymore.
    Lithium polymer and lithium ion should behave in similar ways (they both have relatively flat discharge curves, which is good thing). They may have slight differences in how they like to be charged, but usually they are roughly the same (charge by limiting voltage to 4.2v...once voltage of 4.2V is reached, current going to battery is reduced to 0).
    Some interesting notes:
    Lithium ion batteries, most always in cylindrical form, have more energy density than lithium polymer.... However, one of the advantages of lithium polymer is that they can be manufactured in a special shape according to a devices need's, occupied otherwise unutilized space....so in the end, the effective "capacity" of the battery is the same or possibly slightly more than a traditional cylindrical lithium ion battery.
    Also, lithium polymer batteries tend to be safer (less risk of burning, exploding, etc.)
    Check out Valence's new batteries. While discharging at something like 2C, they've driven nails into the batteries, shot them (putting a bullet through the battery), and they still performed...even took a charge again!

    Oh, and yes...topping off does count as a partial charge...and many partial charges do add up to effectively count as a "CHARGE." (shadowmite is right)

    Just don't worry about it too much, charge you battery when you can (no need to constantly plug it in to top it off to 100% if it's only at 85% or 90%)...and yes, buy an extra battery...they're as cheap as $30 or so (on Amazon?)
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmite
    The honest truth is batteries are a design flaw. They wear out and stop working as designed. They have a set life span and number of charges they will take. Although keeping it fully charged will allow you to have a longer battery life till discharged, it also means you use your charge cycles faster. Just charge when you need to and don't worry about it. You bought a $600 phone, you can afford a $30 or less battery every year.
    I havent done any studies, but I have had several LiIon and LiPoly battery devices. I'm with this guy, they all start to suck after a year and a half so I stopped worrying about it. I've tried constantly charging and also just charging whenever, the battery starts to degrade anywhich way.
  8. #28  
    Do what you want, but I tested this out, and even after a year, the batteries go strong if you condition and use them right.

    (two separate tests with several laptop batteries, Treo 300s, 600s, and 650's bear this out (since the 650s have only been out a few months, I had to "accelerate" usage and cycle it over 300 times)

    3 full charge and discharges on a new battery, then do whatever. Charging frequently, topping off,etc. actually lowers battery life becuase you use up charging cycles...be it 2 hours or 2 minutes.

    Vendors do not this you will charge your Treo 3 times a day, so you won't hit the life cycle limit within a year.

    However, this is not a big deal for a $30 battery for the Treo 650...but it is for a $150 laptop battery.

    To each their own...
  9. #29  
    Sorry to revive an old thread, but does the USB cable charge over USB? I wanted to keep the included AC adapter in the office and charge overnight while at home. Last night I didn't lose any power, but only gained a few percentage points charge wise. I've read differing opinions on this. The Treo was plugged directly in and not through a monitor or hub. Thanks
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by 4spammers
    From prior devices, I've gotten this advice:

    • Charge fully the first time
    • Drain completely before charging the first time or two
    • From then on, it doesn't matter much. Better to charge frequently than to always do complete cycles (i.e., use it 'till it's dead). But a complete cycle or two can sometimes "refresh" as battery that isn't holding charges well.
    • Buy brand replacements -- i.e., you get what you pay for
    • Avoid over-charging...though most devices these days go to a trickle charge to avoid this problem. I'd assume the Treo 650 would be among this group.


    This is just a collection of anecdotal data I've collected along the way.
    The Treo's use a Li-Ion battery, not a Ni-Cad as your suggestions suggest (at least the way I read them).

    Charge the battery fully the first time and then top off the battery as much as possiable. I also hear that Li-Ion's don't like to be ran down below 20% too often, but that my be a wives tale?
  11. #31  
    If you get a "sync & charge" cable (the retractable kind) from http://www.seidioonline.com you can definitely charge AND sync using this one cable.
    The cable supplied by PalmOne with the Treo *may* or *may not* trickle charge the Treo...not sure. It will only positively charge the Treo if you have the AC power plugged in...so in that case you can't leave that at home and have the cable at your office, etc. You need to carry them together.
    I highly recommend getting the sync and charge cable, along with a versacharger from boxwave (www.boxwave.com)
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmite
    Actually, most batteries I've seen real ratings for state 500 cycles. This site:

    http://www.buchmann.ca/Chap8-page4.asp

    Will back me up on that. If you plug the phone in 3 times a day to "top it off", in a year your battery is dead... But as I said, buy a new one if need be, they are cheap.
    I assumed that a "cycle" was moving the battery from a low percentage to full charge and topping the battery off is not a full cycle, is this incorrect?
  13. #33  
    Does anyones Treo 650 reach 100% after being fully charged? My light turned green, but it still said 99%.
    current: GSM Unlocked, SonyEricsson T610 Unlocked
    macuser: AI 1.5 & Pismo 500
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by neps
    Does anyones Treo 650 reach 100% after being fully charged? My light turned green, but it still said 99%.
    Mine says 100% while its still plugged in. The second I unplug it and check again its 99%.
  15. #35  
    Sometimes (when green is finally reached), it says 100%, sometimes 99%. I don't think it's much to worry about.
  16. cec
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    #36  
    Please would one of you geniuses invent a better battery. Everything about these devices is advancing at breakneck speed while battery technology is stuck in neutral...
  17. #37  
    I've answered my earlier question. Last night I had the treo plugged in to usb (direct to pc) with no AC adapter and had a full charge this morning. So, I can leave the real ac at work and use only usb at home. The first few nights I had it plugged into the monitor hub and the monitor sleeps at night (ee bum bum ba way). So, it wasn't charging. That's all...
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Burkhardi
    I assumed that a "cycle" was moving the battery from a low percentage to full charge and topping the battery off is not a full cycle, is this incorrect?
    Yes, that's basically correct, though it's reversed in a sense. Some of the participants in this discussion are misunderstanding the use of the word "cycle" in this context. A "cycle" is a term used to describe a certain amount of usage of the battery - basically the amount of power delivered by a battery that goes from a full charge to a 3V (80% discharged) status. It doesn't matter how many times you "top off" the battery, what matters is how much power it delivers over time.

    However, these batteries tend to wear more at low charges than at higher ones, so they will have a longer useful life (on average) if they are kept closer to a full status than an empty one. Hence the recommendation to charge early and charge often.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by neps
    Does anyones Treo 650 reach 100% after being fully charged? My light turned green, but it still said 99%.
    i had that when i first charged up my 650 battery. after about 3 more hours or so it finally peaked at 100%.
    Nokia 3585 > Moto i60c > Moto i90c > SK Color > Nokia 6820 > Nokia 6230 > Treo 600 > Treo 650 > BB 7100 > BB 7105 > BB Pearl > Treo 755p > Treo 800w
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