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  1. #21  
    I might have to agree. I think the 650 is going back tomorrow.
  2. #22  
    yeah i had about 6.3 mbs left on my 600 but on my 650 its 1.9
    but i think just moving all my junk to an sd card will cover it.

    can get 1gbs pretty cheap these days.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Shazsta
    yeah i had about 6.3 mbs left on my 600 but on my 650 its 1.9
    but i think just moving all my junk to an sd card will cover it.
    That's no where near as bad as others have reported in this thread. What gives? Maybe people could discuss how they restored their files to the device and maybe the total number of files installed vs the amount of memory used.

    I too have my 600 barely breathing with 4 MB free and tons of stuff on my card and expecting to receive my 650 tomorrow. I would be very interested in us investigating why Shazsta's situation seems to be considerably better than the others.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by silverado
    That's no where near as bad as others have reported in this thread. What gives? Maybe people could discuss how they restored their files to the device and maybe the total number of files installed vs the amount of memory used.

    I too have my 600 barely breathing with 4 MB free and tons of stuff on my card and expecting to receive my 650 tomorrow. I would be very interested in us investigating why Shazsta's situation seems to be considerably better than the others.
    It's because each Treo has a different set of applications on it. The bloat of the app is a function of the number and size of its data files, so unless you have the exact same set of applications, and each application has the same data files, you'll have different memory profiles on each device.
  5. #25  
    Yep I had 12.4 meg before I am now out of room and dont have it all backed up.

    Ouch. I hope it uses the card so it wont be an issue.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by silverado
    That's no where near as bad as others have reported in this thread. What gives? Maybe people could discuss how they restored their files to the device and maybe the total number of files installed vs the amount of memory used.

    I too have my 600 barely breathing with 4 MB free and tons of stuff on my card and expecting to receive my 650 tomorrow. I would be very interested in us investigating why Shazsta's situation seems to be considerably better than the others.
    It seems to me that Shazsta's situation is fairly consistant. Following this story from a few threads it seems like on "average" that it takes up 25-33% more memory overall. Shazsta might be out of that range, I didn't do the math, but it's fairly close.

    I'm banking on not needing something like Power Run (because it's built in) and just running apps off the SD card for the most part.

    Still, I have to agree that the lack of a memory upgrade was terrible before we knew this, but it's especially bad since. Can we get Treocentral to talk to Palm or something? I mean this really, really hurts the device. I mean there shouldn't be a big downgrade in basic specs when you spend more money and that's what this amounts to.
  7. #27  
    There are now more threads on this. Probably a merge is in order. I'd also recommend a big bold sticky as this is something that no one expected until recently. It's like finding that the device was downgraded to 16MBs.
  8. #28  
    Ahhhhhh........

    I moved a bunch of junk to SD card fixed my issues. Somewhat acceptable, but geez what were they thinking??
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    The only thing that can save this is the ability to run off a SD card fairly transparently. I'll suffer the loss of 10MB of storage on the handheld to gain seemless use of 1GB on the card.

    Try PowerRUN

    http://homepage2.nifty.com/hackerdudesan/index-e.html
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    It seems to me that Shazsta's situation is fairly consistant. Following this story from a few threads it seems like on "average" that it takes up 25-33% more memory overall. Shazsta might be out of that range, I didn't do the math, but it's fairly close.

    I'm banking on not needing something like Power Run (because it's built in) and just running apps off the SD card for the most part.

    Still, I have to agree that the lack of a memory upgrade was terrible before we knew this, but it's especially bad since. Can we get Treocentral to talk to Palm or something? I mean this really, really hurts the device. I mean there shouldn't be a big downgrade in basic specs when you spend more money and that's what this amounts to.
    I was referring to what was said in this thread. Jayzee for example said that the 650 will only hold 40% of what was on the 600. That's a very different story.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by bestoverall
    Does anyone know if Jackflash can relieve memory limitation? On my T3, I currently able to get over 600K extra memory from Flash, but not sure if this is even possible with the new memory architecture on 650.
    I haven't yet spoken to Brad (at Brayder) yet . They weren't able to figure out a way to support the CLIE UX50's arcane memory scheme, so I doubt they'll have much luck with this NAND Flash setup either.

    Palm is quietly removing our ability to hack/customize our PDAs, probably at the request of the carriers. I hope the new Samsung (if it's EVER released) uses normal RAM.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by jimf
    It's because each Treo has a different set of applications on it. The bloat of the app is a function of the number and size of its data files, so unless you have the exact same set of applications, and each application has the same data files, you'll have different memory profiles on each device.
    Obviously. But, again, the difference between the Shazsta's and Jayzee's situations is rather big. That's why I suggested the file count and total memory use as a way to get a very crude estimate of the average file size. As we know, the smaller the file size the higher the propensity for wasted space. I don't think we should just assume without some close observation first since this is a rather new environment about which we don't know all the facts.
  13. #33  
    Do you guys have a lot of stuff in your garage too? Sounds like you need to purge, let it go. If you haven't worn it in the last year, maybe it's time for the Goodwill....
  14. #34  
    < merged per request >
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by miradu
    This is a warning from TreoCentral.com. We have not been pleased with your postings on the forum - recently they have been disruptful, inciteful, and rude. If you would like to continue to be a member of TreoCentral please shape up, otherwise we will have to ask you to leave.

    -Michael Ducker
    Senior Editor, TreoCentral.com

    Well I just came back to Treocentral to check up on what's been happening recently and find there's a message waiting for me from several months ago. Are you guys for real? Michael, it appears you take yourself way more seriously than a normal person should. No doubt you'll (was that the "royal we"?) now "ask {me} to leave". Whatever, Mikey. Take care.

  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by fushigi
    I don't really have a problem with a 512 byte sector. What seems to be the larger issue is the 512 byte minimum data allocation. That's what will kill memory usage. For programs, rounding up to the next 512 byte allotment won't waste enough RAM to notice. However, for data, allocating 512 bytes per record or worse, per field, will really hurt. Most modern OSes do memory allocation at the word level:2, 4, 8, or maybe even 16 bytes at a time. Multiple data segments can be stored in a single sector. There's no reason why PalmOS shouldn't follow this same guideline.
    If you are talking about runtime memory needs of a running program, then I don't think this 512 allocation unit applies. Based on the article whose URL was posted here describing the memory architecture, the device should have about 10 mb's of "normal" RAM for currently executing code and data. Write operations to in-memory databases are periodically propagated to the NAND flash copy to keep them in sync.

    [On a side note, the article said that this writing to flash only happens when DB's are closed, but I have a hard time believing that...]
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by wcarlson40
    This is NOT good. I am definately not buying, I'm running low on memory on my 600 already (and yes, I have everything that can run from the memory card on the card....)

    Have you tried PowerRUN?
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluetux64
    When I HotSync my Treo 600, Power Run appears to temporarily load the app into memory, allowing the the HotSync Conduit to function as normal, and afterwards saves the app (and any HotSynced data files) back to the SD card.
    As far as I know, this isn't exactly what's happening 'behind the hood', but the result is the same. What PowerRun (or ZLauncher, for that respect, when creating shortcuts) does is simply create a file in RAM with the same Creator ID than the original application. During a hotsync, the associated conduit will simply check if there is a file in RAM with the appropriate Creator ID, and if that's the case, then the conduit deals with the data - but the data need to be in RAM unless the application is specifically designed to handle the memory card.

    In a nutshell: if the application is an old one that doesn't support the memory card, then you need to keep the databases (at least those containing data which is 'hotsynced') in RAM if you want the hotsync to happen for that application. If the application is more recent and is able to handle the memory card to store its databases, then, well, you don't even need to move those databases to the card in the first place!

    That's how it worked last time I had a look at it, but I'm sure that there are a few knowledgeable people here who will correct me if I'm wrong!

    Overall result is that using PowerRun to save storage memory will mostly be useful for apps that need a lot of memory to store their databases but don't support the card, and which also don't need to be synchronized during hotsync. Example: a dictionary or map program. Otherwise, I fear that this may not be the ultimate answer to memory shortage on the NVFS devices, even if it'll help a bit.
  19. #39  
    this is just marketing guys, they hold back, give cheap, since longtime available memory stuff, to have some upgrades left in the faaar future. nobody seriously believes that the 700 is around the corner
  20. #40  
    My 650 is going back!

    Killer screen, great camera, fast processor.... but no memory to use all those great things with.

    Its a sad, sad day!
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