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  1. kenn's Avatar
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       #1  
    i am a current treo 600 owner. I really wanted a number of things in a new phone/pda... bluetooth with DUN working, higher data rates than att wireless, a better screen, a better keyboard, and better software... the 6601 is an amazing device from a technological standpoint... unfortunately, microsoft has proven to me what so many have said about them in the past... they are an imitator -- not an innovator. Though the software selection for the pocket pc is far and away better than what palm has to offer, the built in stuff is worthless in my opinion. There is very limited configuration beyond basic settings-- nothing like what the aftermarket provides. I was unhappy with pocket explorer.... I downloaded thunderhawk and it blows pocket IE away... but locks up for some reason or another. Point is that there is better than built-in. I was unhappy with pocket outlook... So I downloaded a mail client which was far more robust. Again, better than what microsoft provided. At some point it dawned on me that my 600 does all of these things just fine. The only thing missing is the high res screen. There are so many little quirky behaviors on the 6601 that I can't begin to describe them all. Suffice it to say that the engineers didn't fully use WM2003 in the field with people that really use the device. If they did, they'd have fine-tuned the OS.

    For example: you can't activate voice dial with any bluetooth headset. It's an OS issue... How stupid is that?

    If you are surfing the internet and the auto email check interval comes up, it interrupts your browser session to check email. Why the heck wouldn't you simply tell the OS to check if the data connection is active and if it is, DON'T try to connect.

    It even makes an attempt when I'm on the phone. I get a brief moment or two of garbled conversation and the phone gives up.

    How's this one grab you: I installed a number of PPC apps that didn't work right and had to uninstall them. I got a message, not unlike the one you get in desktop windows, that the application was not fully uninstalled and I had to delete the files manually. As I poked around, I found a number of little extras that got left behind in various directories. I guess the apple never falls far from the tree, eh? Way to go microsoft on creating a clean, trouble free OS.

    In the end the 600 simply works. Yep, it's had some occasional bugs and but nothing earthshattering or that can't be fixed. I suspect the 650 will be a bit more solid, but even if it had a similar level of bugginess with the 600 it will still behave itself far more than WM2003 has for me. The treo is a better device as long as the phone to pda integration is very, very tight.

    Ironically, i like all the toys and software you can get on PPC. I'll probably get one of the VGA pocket pcs and tether it to my 650 if/when that becomes possible so that I have a "toy" to play with and I have a solid phone with integrated PDA to carry for important work purposes...

    anyway, just wanted to share my story and I await you guys who get the first unit's reports so that I know whether to stick with my 600 for a while and wait for something even better or jump into a 650....
  2. #2  
    Having owned about 4 Palms and an iPaq in the past I can say I agree with almost everything you said. However, while MS has done some catching up on the # of third party apps, I believe the Palm platform still blows them away. Maybe not in gameboy type stuff, but in useful business and personal organization apps, MS is whooped by Palm.
    Palms and more Palms till the 700p ruined it for me. Blackberry and now the Pre. Sprint customer since 1994! They had 1 tower in town.
  3. #3  
    Wow, I'm "between Treos" and using a HP h6365 on cingular right now. Kenn, you hit the nail right on the head. The h6365 (imported from Singapore, generic, unlocked version of the h6315) is a great device (it even has, dare I say it?... WIFI), but it just misses the mark for practical usability for this "since the Pilot 1000" Palm OS veteran. It just hacks me how much I really need that da** stylus--can't even really use the thing walking down the street.

    Todd/Indy
  4. #4  
    There are so many little quirky behaviors on the [insert your PocketPC model here] that I can't begin to describe them all.
    Hallelujah! I couldn't have said it better myself. My path was Newton -> Psion 3c -> Some Windows CE piece of @#$@ -> Palm Vx -> iPaq -> Tungsten T|3 -> Treo 650 (tomorrow?). Newton was a toy, but innovative. Psion 3c rocked -- loved the keyboard -- but slow & simple. The Palms have been rock solid. Every time I've used/owned a PocketPC device, I've been underwhelmed. It felt like Windows crammed in a pda and complaining about it -- strange circular interfaces...just annoying. My wife's iPaq for work would constantly turn itself on and never turn off until the battery died. Yuck. And don't even get me started with the synch-to-more-than-one-machine headaches. Palm, on the other hand, has always been essentially plug 'n' play.

    Now the Treo 650 will fulfill the job of both my SE T608 and my Tungsten T|3. And I'll get back the keyboard that I've missed ever since I retired my Psion 3c. The phone is a bit bigger than I'd like...but that's where the technology is (at least in the U.S.) for now.

    Welcome back!
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by perry_rob
    Having owned about 4 Palms and an iPaq in the past I can say I agree with almost everything you said. However, while MS has done some catching up on the # of third party apps, I believe the Palm platform still blows them away. Maybe not in gameboy type stuff, but in useful business and personal organization apps, MS is whooped by Palm.
    Well, no. Unfortunately, this is a myth that Palm apps are better and there are more of them. There may be more Palm apps, but many are of them are nickel and dime stuff. The multitasking capabilities of Pocket PC allow for far more advanced applications. For example, business apps for Pocket PC such as PlanMaker and TextMaker are near exact copies of Microsoft Word and Excel in terms of functions and capabilities. They are far more capable than Palm apps like Docs to Go and QuickOffice. And IMO, organizer apps like Pocket Informant and Agenda Plus are superior to Palm apps like DateBook.
  6. #6  
    That's precisely why many people just love or hate the PPC format.

    PPC tries to be a "pocket pc" - tries to do all it can as well as the PC. So it has become more and more powerful over time at the expense of userbility and stability. At the ultimate incarnation of the PPC, it will be as unreliable and unstable as the desktop PC.

    Palms on the other hand have given 'sufficient' functionality to 95% of common users and has kept it as friendly as possibly - not something easy to do.

    So for "power users" that need replicas of desktop Excel, Word or WMP while walking down a road or driving a car, then PPCs are the way to go. Even on the desktop, I only use maybe 10-20% of the full functions of Office software so I wonder what kind of superhero power does anyone need to carry around in their pocket?

    For those of us who recognise that easy of use and in the case of the Treo, a very tightly integrated phone/pda, non-complex solution is key, then the Palm platform is the way to go.
  7. kenn's Avatar
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       #7  
    I didn't mean to imply that the ppc has less software than the palm... I think both devices have a significant quantity of software. The PPC does have a larger library in terms of overall software -- games, business, whatever... but I guess my question is that if they are installed on a quirky OS what good are they?

    Here's another thing about 6601 that irritated me. 3 different apps, 3 different ways to delete a file. One has an entry in the menu: "edit:delete". Another has a similiar way, but is one level deeper: "file:modify:delete" or something like that... Delete a recording in the file list in pocket recorder? No such command in the menus. You have to click on the filename and hold, wait for the popup, then delete. I realize that once you get used to it, it's no big deal, but I was seriously irritated from the onset. These are the little quirks I'm talking about.... Consistency in operation and behavior is key to making it simple to learn and use...
  8. njchris's Avatar
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    #8  
    From some of these posts, you'd think the Palm OS never crashes or is perfect.

    My Treo has reset/rebooted so many times on it's own I don't think I could count that high.

    and OS 5.x product put out with 160x160 screen? That made MANY OS 5 High Res apps not work right when the Treo first came out (many had to put in code specifically to work on the Treo). Go back to when the 600 came out and stll now look at the 600 forum. THere's plenty of comments about bugs and crashes.

    Neither OS is perfect, and it's really a matter of what works for you.
  9. jlczl's Avatar
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    #9  
    By what I have read in other threads and in this one I have come to the conclusion that the Palm OS and the Treo 650's target market is my mother and other less tech savvy folks while the Pocket PC is geared more towards the professional and technically gifted among us. I consider myself the latter.
    Palm VII-Palm Vx-Palm M125-Clie T615-Sony NZ90-Sony NX80-Toshiba E800-Sony NZ90 (again)-Treo 600-HP 6315-Treo 650-Moto MPX220-SX66-Treo 650 (again)-QTek 9100-HP6515-Cingular 8125-Moto Q (10 days)-Cingular 8125 (again)-Nokia 9300-Cingular 2125 & Nokia E62-ETen M600+-Cingular 3125-Treo 750 & Samsung Blackjack-Cingular 8525-iPhone-Moto Q9-at&t Tilt-iPhone3G-Nokia E71-HTC Diamond-Blackberry Bold-at&t Fuze-SE Xperia X1a-Treo Pro.

    Be very, very quiet. I'm gonna catch me a rhinoceros.
  10. jlczl's Avatar
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    #10  
    BTW, don't flame me I'm just having a little fun. I do plan to come back to Palm when the Treo 700 surfaces. (If I haven't been completely turned to the dark side.)
    Palm VII-Palm Vx-Palm M125-Clie T615-Sony NZ90-Sony NX80-Toshiba E800-Sony NZ90 (again)-Treo 600-HP 6315-Treo 650-Moto MPX220-SX66-Treo 650 (again)-QTek 9100-HP6515-Cingular 8125-Moto Q (10 days)-Cingular 8125 (again)-Nokia 9300-Cingular 2125 & Nokia E62-ETen M600+-Cingular 3125-Treo 750 & Samsung Blackjack-Cingular 8525-iPhone-Moto Q9-at&t Tilt-iPhone3G-Nokia E71-HTC Diamond-Blackberry Bold-at&t Fuze-SE Xperia X1a-Treo Pro.

    Be very, very quiet. I'm gonna catch me a rhinoceros.
  11. #11  
    so simple, elegant, with solid apps = non techy
    while confusing, flawed os and bloated apps = techy?

    Yes, gifted...

    *humor off*
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelonius
    so simple, elegant, with solid apps = non techy
    while confusing, flawed os and bloated apps = techy?

    Yes, gifted...

    *humor off*
    Right on, Thelionus. I will take simply elegance any day!!!
  13. #13  
    Well folks, I gave it a chance. I purchased a PPC6601 thru Sprint tele-sells. My previous phones were a Treo 300 and then a 600. But I was interested in the 6601 because I also have a Dell Axim X3i PPC which I absolutely love. After the Treo's and my Axim, the 6601 was a real let down. I will be returning it tommorrow and buying a 650. My reasons - it is just too big and cumbersome to use. Everytime I wanted to do something I was finding that I needed to either pull out the stylus or drop down the keyboard. No single handed use at all. Everytime I turned around it was taking me two hands to do various things. Plus the buttons are so far a part on the 6601, I just found it very difficult to use. I kept doing different things and then remembered how easy it was to do similar things on my old 600. Sure it is flashy and impressive looking, but if it's not usefull what good is it? Plus I found IE with Vision very slow, at least IMO slower than Blazer on my 600. Finally, I really missed having Chatter. This was the one application I always said would cause me to stay with a Treo and sure enough it's true. I gave it a chance and I'm sure the 6601 is perfect for some folks but just not me. I'm kind of glad though I went ahead and bought the 6601, at least now there will be no second quessing when I get a 650.
  14. #14  
    wolf,

    how long did you have it for? would more time have helped?
    Felipe
    On the road to 5,000 posts
    Life is what happens between Firmware releases.
  15. #15  
    I only got it yesterday. Granted that's not a long time for evaluation - but since I was already familar with PPC's as well as Treo's I used it enough to see I really didn't like it. My main gripe is just the size and it's lack of one-handed use. For instance the five-way control is at the bottom of the device, whereas with the Treo it's above the keyboard in the middle. It's very hard to hold the device and then scroll down when reading files in iSilo with the control at the bottom. Whereas with the Treo with the control more in the middle it's a breeze. With the Treo all of your buttons are in one area, whereas with the 6601 they are all over the place. First you have to press the top power button, then press a button on the bottom area to do anything. I just found it was taking two hands to do alot of things.
  16. #16  
    Some other things I wanted to throw out that I didn't like about the 6601. I was concerned about the flimsy rubber cover to the headphone connector. It is just a matter of time till it comes off. Then I used my 2.5 to 3.5 converter plug so that I could play some mp3 files on my car radio using a cassette adapter. The plug didn't fit quite right and the music kept cutting out on me. I never had this problem with my Treo. Other things - when you do a close on a program it doesn't really close it, it is still running. I know this is a "feature" of PPC's and was aware of it from my Axim, but I still found it annoying because the only real way to exit the programs is to install a program such as WisBar (a third party PPC program) and then you have to use the stylus to do the close. The email application (Inbox) doesn't come close to providing the functionality of Chatter (or possibly Versamail on the 650). I really missed the push capabiliy of Chatter. The phone part of the 6601 looks like an after-thought addon IMO. Not very attractive. Finally, and I know this is a new phone, but you can find hardly no additional accessories for the 6601. I know they will come and isn't really a good argument - but in my old(er) age here, I just don't have the time or patience to be on the edge of technology and that's kind of where I see the 6601. The bottom line - the entire time I was using (and actually am still using until I return it tommorrow) I kept thinking I sure wish I had my old 600 back. So back to Sprint the 6601 goes (I hope I can return it to my local store, if not I'll go the RMA route) and I'll continue waiting for my Palm1 delivery of a 650.
  17. kenn's Avatar
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       #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Felipe
    wolf,

    how long did you have it for? would more time have helped?
    I'm not wolf, but I had mine for 5 days and drove it pretty darn hard. I used it with and without the headset, tried some aftermarket tools including a couple of browsers and email client, struggled with getting it to IMAP properly with my server (never got there), watched battery usage, surfed the forums, tried two different voide dialing systems, etc. etc... In the end, it just isn't as easy to use. The buttons are too far apart. If the keys are locked and I want to make a phone call from a contact, i have to press the power button on top right. It's HARD to reach that one-handed. THEN you have to reach again to the upper left corner of the phone again, one-handed which is a big stretch, then to the very bottom edge of the phone where the d-pad is, scroll to your contact, and execute from there. Keylock on treo is right there in the middle... It's just so much easier to use it isn't even a fair comparison to the treo... Also, I didn't think I'd have an issue sliding out the keyboard when I needed it, but i found myself at times wondering why the hell don't I have a device with an exposed keyboard? Aha! I do, it's called a treo!

    Now that I have my treo back in hand it literally feels TINY. I know the 6601 was just over 1cm wider, but that 1cm feels like a heckuva lot more... My hands aren't exactly tiny...

    I'll wait for the first round of 650s to hit the streets and give dox to go and snapper a little time to update their prodcuts... As soon as the all clear is sounded, I'm all over the 650.

    I do want to see the DUN issue addressed as I'd love to get a large screen pda that can tether so I can surf and email on a bigger screen when i want to play around...

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