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  1.    #1  
    So along with about 90% of the world I thought that palm one was nutts not including wi-fi in the treo. And yes like I am sure has happened at every road show (this time at Long Beach) I inquired for the reason behind the decision. I tired to do so very politely.

    The answer was two fold - service providers didn't request it, and the robustness of the solution.

    Thinking about this it is consistant with the basic philosphy of the treo development team, they don't make it untill they feel confortable with the solution. Putting quality control issues aside, the device certainly has some maturity from a usability standpoint.

    More impotantly is the battery life issue, I have a Garmin Palm. My ideal device is a Palm/phone/wi-fi/gps. The garmin is awsome EXCEPT for battery life! To use the GPS you have to plug it in, or it is dead in a very short amount of time. So I have a nice car charger rig for it. The same is likely for Wi-Fi in the 650. To use it for any length of time you will need external power. and they may have had to increase the size a bit (which we would all complain about) so internal is not ready yet. If they give you drivers for the SDIO card, battery life will be short, and we will not have enough memory (it used the memory slot). I would be okay with drivers for the third party card with the 250MB flash in it as well, but you would still be needing to take your power supply and be near a wall plug with this solution.

    So at this time I am hoping for a sled or connector to the bottom of the device that connects a POWERED Wi-Fi device to the Treo (as well as other palm units with the same unverisal connector - like the t5).

    If this device was as large as the treo itself it whould not be a big issue and that size would allow it to use decent capacity batteries for long run times. Maybe even AA NIMH that we could recharge inside it with the treo's same power supply?


    By the way I am still waiting for the GPS/Phone/palm/wifi device that works well and runs a long time on batteries, but I better pull up a confortable chair because it may be a few years.
  2. #2  
    Not another WiFi thread. Please stop the madness.
  3. #3  
    now show some decency bssinrver, mbrenner's making some good points.

    mbrenner: and how do they explain that mr ed c. was standing in front of people and claiming that they're working on wifi for the 650?!

    dunno of any other mobile maker that claims false promises ...
  4. #4  
    A few points here:

    1. Palm has no problem putting out something that doesn't work optimally. I'm referring to the camera on the Treo 600 which most of the time was useless. In direct daylight with the right hacks you could get something useful, but it's not like you can always expect to take a picture and get it.

    2. With the GPS you are presumably using that for an extended period of time. For wifi, it would be like a minute here and a minute there. I might use it 15 minutes a day and that would save me about 100 minutes worth of cellular data time (and battery) due to its increased speed. The Tungsten C doesn't have battery problems that I know of with it's built-in wifi. There's also the Palm Wifi card, which presumably doesn't eat up battery so much to require a sled (or they would have made it a sled). I don't see how the Treo would be any different than these examples.

    I think a sled would be a huge mistake. Suddenly the Treo would blow up in size to a brick and then you are at square one. A wifi SD card and drivers would be an ideal compromise.
  5. Iceman6's Avatar
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    #5  
    The real problem is, PalmOne and PalmSource are looking backwards, not forwards, when they spec their products. Bluetooth 1.1, .3 Megapixel camera, 23 MB RAM are all features that can best be described as "proven technology". None of that "bleeding edge" stuff for PalmOne!
    The Treo 650 is pretty much a remake of the Treo 600. In car manufacturer terms, the product has been "freshened". Who knows? Maybe a more reliable 600 with a better screen is what the market is asking for?
  6. #6  
    Palm didn't make the Treo 600. That was put out by Handspring...which they purchased. They did put their logo on it, but the 650 is really their first creation in the series.

    I noticed that Sprint also pulled Wifi from the 6601 citing cost and battery life issues. I'd like to have the option, but obviously we need to be able to easily turn it off so as not to be drainging the battery.

    The sled on the original iPaqs stunk...I think we can live without that Rube Goldberg technology coming back
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by kschoenberg
    Palm didn't make the Treo 600. That was put out by Handspring...which they purchased. They did put their logo on it, but the 650 is really their first creation in the series.

    I noticed that Sprint also pulled Wifi from the 6601 citing cost and battery life issues. I'd like to have the option, but obviously we need to be able to easily turn it off so as not to be drainging the battery.

    The sled on the original iPaqs stunk...I think we can live without that Rube Goldberg technology coming back

    Yes,l but I believe that the 6601 will support a wifi card unlike the treo. That allows the customer flexibility, while still keeping the cost down. I think Palm should have provided the solution, since it was promised for the 600 and never delivered. It seems like deja vue with the 650
  8. Iceman6's Avatar
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    #8  
    Sprint chose to not include both Wifi and EVDO in the 6601. You can make the argument that you don't need both, but Palm chose to omit both approaches to high-speed data services. I think this is "good enough for government work", but high tech it ain't.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by kschoenberg
    Palm didn't make the Treo 600. That was put out by Handspring...which they purchased. They did put their logo on it, but the 650 is really their first creation in the series.

    I noticed that Sprint also pulled Wifi from the 6601 citing cost and battery life issues. I'd like to have the option, but obviously we need to be able to easily turn it off so as not to be drainging the battery.

    The sled on the original iPaqs stunk...I think we can live without that Rube Goldberg technology coming back
    6601 did NOT have its Wifi pulled by Sprint. This is how the device was designed by HTC. This has been available overseas for a while now.
  10. #10  
    The Treo 650, with a removable battery will, of course, accommodate power drain issues better than previous models. So the WiFi power drain may not be as serious of a problem as it would have been in the past... If you want to use WiFi, better keep a couple of spare batteries around. Now I wonder how long a single battery would last with constant use of WiFi...

    Just my $.02
  11. #11  
    Treo 650 doesn't have WiFi because Sprint didn't want it to bog down their network, IMHO. Other reasons are just excuses. If Tmobile were main carrier subsidizing development of Treo, there would have been Wifi. Palmone ppl at roadshow pretty much said Tmobile was begging for Wifi on treo 650.

    You can always turn Wifi off to alleviate power issues and have it on only when needed.

    Just my two cents....
  12. #12  
    How would wifi bog down sprints network?

    Also, the ppc-660x hardware is evdo capable.

    -rob
    Neopoint 1000, I300, Treo 300, i330, Toshiba 2032, Treo 600, T608/UX50, I500,Treo 600, G1000, Treo 650, PPC-6600, PPC-6700, Treo 650, Blackberry 7250, Treo 700wx, Motorola Q, PPC-6800, 700wx, Motorola Q9c, Sprint Touch, Sprint ACE, 700wx, 800w, Touch Pro, 800w, Touch Diamond, 800w, Treo Pro, Palm Pre, HTC Hero, Palm Pre, EVO 4G warm2.2
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by oclin627
    Treo 650 doesn't have WiFi because Sprint didn't want it to bog down their network, IMHO. Other reasons are just excuses. If Tmobile were main carrier subsidizing development of Treo, there would have been Wifi. Palmone ppl at roadshow pretty much said Tmobile was begging for Wifi on treo 650.

    You can always turn Wifi off to alleviate power issues and have it on only when needed.

    Just my two cents....
    Wi-fi would not bog down Sprints service. Sprint does not have a wi-fi service. Wi-fi would truly serve to free up some of Sprints service (thereby probably losing money for Sprint).
  14. #14  
    After attending the Chicago show, I would concur that P1 has two major concerns 1)Making the carriers happy -- after all THEY are the major customer. 2) Workability above all things, even at the expense of "bleeding edge" inovation.

    I think they got burned pretty bad with all the bugs and QC issues with the 600 and wanted to come up with a device that was useable to the most amount of people, maximizing reliability and everyday workability for the maximum number of customers.

    P1 clearly DOES listen to the customers, sometimes at least. They originally had not planned on reversing the color on the numbers on the keypad, but did so when feedback came in that that was wanted by many users. Same with BT and blackberry, customers are demanding this so they either have it (BT) or are working hard to get it (BB).

    With wi-fi, however there is no push from Sprint to have it and it increases a lot of everyday workability issues for the average user. I have read of a lot of people having problems in NY as they move in and out of hotspots, plus the battery drain issue, plus more things to break down or not work right. Plus, I can imagine the carrier getting all sorts of complaint/service calls from consumers when the real problem was with the hot-spot.

    So wi-fi is never going to be a priority to P1 until it thinks that its a necessity for a large number of its real customers.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by midmofan
    So wi-fi is never going to be a priority to P1 until it thinks that its a necessity for a large number of its real customers.
    yeah, what I said....
    ELR
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  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    Palm has no problem putting out something that doesn't work optimally. I'm referring to the camera on the Treo 600 which most of the time was useless.
    Which, I might remind you, most of us bought anyway!
    ELR
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  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by rbright
    Wi-fi would not bog down Sprints service. Sprint does not have a wi-fi service. Wi-fi would truly serve to free up some of Sprints service (thereby probably losing money for Sprint).
    Sprints vision plans are typically (maybe even complete) all you can use, thus it would just save them bandwidth. In other words, they are getting my Vision money for the month either way. I think very few people would give up Vision completely to use wifi for the times they aren't in wifi range.

    To some other points:

    For all practical purposes the people who made the Treo 600 made the Treo 650. You might call them Handspring or Palm, but they are the same people. Palm wouldn't have bought Handspring if they were going to drastically alter the successful approach of the Treo 600.

    PalmOne was forward looking in trying to have a 1.3MP camera, it just didn't work out. PalmOne also probably would have included more Ram if they weren't left with a surplus of 32MB chips. I'm not happy about it, but I think we have to recognize that if the rumored surplus was true, it was a mistake from a long time ago. I think they figured a decent compromise is allowing applications to easily run off of the SD Card instead of requiring new launcher and helper applications as it seems to require for the Treo 600 now. I suppose we'll see how that works.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by midmofan
    After attending the Chicago show, I would concur that P1 has two major concerns 1)Making the carriers happy -- after all THEY are the major customer. 2) Workability above all things, even at the expense of "bleeding edge" inovation.

    I think they got burned pretty bad with all the bugs and QC issues with the 600 and wanted to come up with a device that was useable to the most amount of people, maximizing reliability and everyday workability for the maximum number of customers.
    This arguement only flies with built-in wifi. Making a wifi card work should have no bearing on the QC for the people who don't want wifi.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    Palm has no problem putting out something that doesn't work optimally. I'm referring to the camera on the Treo 600 which most of the time was useless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Otter Emperor
    Which, I might remind you, most of us bought anyway!
    I don't think, (however I could be wrong) that most of us said, "Wow, .3MP camera, now that's something that I have to have." I'm fairly sure people will point to the hundred or so other things that made the Treo 600 the best smartphone. In fact, there is even a cameraless Treo 600.

    My point is simply that yes people will buy the Treo's because they still function well for most of the things that people need to do. However, there are an increasing group of early adopters (which seems to be the majority of TreoCentral's members) who are asking for features that PalmOne passes on to reach a more mainstream audience.

    Overall it's not a bad plan, business-wise, but I think it would be far more advantageous to have drivers out with the release of the Treo 650 for their own wifi card. If nothing else they'd sell more of their own hardware. That would more than make up for the "resources" it would take to develop the drivers.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by mbrenner
    The answer was two fold - service providers didn't request it, and the robustness of the solution.
    I think more specifically, Sprint may not have requested it even stated they may wanted it ommited on purpose...at least that's the impression I got from the Palm execs...

    So at this time I am hoping for a sled or connector to the bottom of the device that connects a POWERED Wi-Fi device to the Treo (as well as other palm units with the same unverisal connector - like the t5).
    Enfora makes wifi integrated cased for PUC enabled handhelds. I imagine they will eventually release a version compatibe with the multiconnector (Athena) as well in the future that would be compatible with both the T5 and the Treo 650...

    By the way I am still waiting for the GPS/Phone/palm/wifi device that works well and runs a long time on batteries, but I better pull up a confortable chair because it may be a few years.
    Why not just get a BT GPS receiver to go with the Treo 650? That seems like the best solution imo b/c it convserves the battery of the Treo while at the same time preserving the Treo's form factor. Also, from info I gathered from the Treo roadshow, the CDMA Treos are absolutely equiped and compatible with E911 AGPS functionality, but the CDMA carriers like Sprint and Verizon have not released the API's to access it. The PalmOne execs even stated that they would love for the wireless carriers to enable the LBS (location based services), but it wasn't up to them. AGPS is not the same as WAAS satellite GPS of course, but still a nice future solution that may be available on the Treo 650...
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