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  1. #901  
    Exactly the impression I got from them.
    Quote Originally Posted by helpermonkey
    .... No one working on such a product would not care about it. They are all doing their best to release this product and make everyone happy.
  2. #902  
    Of course palmOne favors the carriers when it comes to phone distribution - that's the way that market works in the US (and, largely, in other parts of the world). Direct-to-consumer sales are a small fraction of the sales that are made through carriers, because they are set up to deal with consumers, and palmOne really isn't. If they tried to make a big push in direct-to-consumer sales, they would alienate the carriers and they would be gone in no time. Other phone manufacturers follow these same practices - you can buy one from Nokia, SonyEricsson, etc. directly if you really want to, but they won't ship before carriers get a chance to.
  3. #903  
    Makes sense, since T-Mobile does not have EDGE service in the US. But the GSM phones all have an EDGE-capable GSM radio in them, according to the tech specs. Even if T-Mobile eventually decides to carry the 650, I highly doubt that they will ask palmOne to replace the GSM module with a non-EDGE one. Especially since they do offer EDGE in other world markets.
  4. #904  
    I overheard (not intentionally) a couple of conversations where a Treo user walks up to a PalmOne staff person and says [paraphrasing here] When is the Treo 650 due out for Verizon? The Palm rep would say "usually Verizon is the last to put the Treo out. Maybe 5 to 6 months." Then the person would walk away saying OHHHH that sucks. Perhaps that same guy comes here and post in a thread with out corroborating the information.
    Quote Originally Posted by bcaslis
    A really great and balanced report, much better than these "P1 sucks and they are stupid" ones. I'm really surprised but encouraged by the statement that the generic GSM will be out in the same timeframe.
  5. #905  
    Quote Originally Posted by specimen38
    CES was great and I have a different perspective about PalmOne as a company (of people).
    <snip>
    Excellent post - thanks for the report.
  6. #906  
    In defense of those who were supposedly speculating. This review gives us no more information than we had at each of the Roadshows. This has been reported repeatedly more than two months ago.

    GSM - Palm employees were non-commital with release date then they said one to two months.
    Verizon - just released 600 two months prior so should not expect 650 any time soon.
    T-mobile had not yest shown an interest in the phone, they want wifi.
  7. #907  
    It is funny how things change. I was based in the UK for the last 18 months and travelling throughout Europe, Asia, and the US. No way did I think when I got back here that I would ever go CDMA. But the truth of the matter is I will be NAM 95% of the time so who cares. I'll pull out my old SE and use pay as you go while in GSM only areas....

    No offense ever taken on the web...


    Quote Originally Posted by Daddyof3
    Sprint was hoping you'd do that. It made the wait worthwhile. No offense, and congratulations!
    PIII,PIIIx,V,Vx,M505,M515,TT,T3,650,700p=>>iPhone
    There's more to life than technology....but not a whole lot more
  8. #908  
    Quote Originally Posted by cglaguna
    In defense of those who were supposedly speculating. This review gives us no more information than we had at each of the Roadshows. This has been reported repeatedly more than two months ago.

    GSM - Palm employees were non-commital with release date then they said one to two months.
    Verizon - just released 600 two months prior so should not expect 650 any time soon.
    T-mobile had not yest shown an interest in the phone, they want wifi.
    verizon always has the oldest phones possible
    Naveen

    Current:Cingular 8525 w/Faria R32

    Next Phone:
    Something from HTC because Palm sucks, so I want a Touch Pro, Touch HD, or a Treo Pro.
  9. #909  
    Quote Originally Posted by jimf
    But the GSM phones all have an EDGE-capable GSM radio in them, according to the tech specs.
    jimf,

    That information is completely false. If a phone had an EDGE radio in it, the maker would be stupid not to turn it on. It would just be done in software. So cost would not be changed. Most manufacturers are still playing catch up on EDGE. I had a Nokia 6200 EDGE phone AGES ago, still some companies don't even sell one.

    BTW, what tech specs are you refering too? GSM in general? EDGE is simply an add on to GPRS, but just because a phone can do GPRS does not have anything to do with it being able to do EDGE.
  10. #910  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    Perhaps. Nonetheless, the report supports the proposition that the happiness of some is more important than the happiness of others. The happiness of carriers is more important than that of end users. The happiness of Sprint is the most important while the happiness of GSM users is least important.

    I was particularly interested in the statement that "they did not want (to) offend their carrier customers by releasing the Palm branded GSM Treo earlier." So much for those who have argued here that it was a matter of contract rather than strategy. So much for those who have argued that the problem is that the phone is "not ready."

    P1 is no longer about selling PDAs to consumers but about selling phones to or through carriers. This strategy cannot help but erode the loyalty of the consumer.

    All that said, I too am grateful to specimen38 for a complete and illuminating report. I particularly appreciate his reporting all the winks and nods, though I probably interpret them differently than he has.
    whmurry, you seem to be missing the boat on how buisness works in the cellular world. How can you think PalmOne could do well without working with the carriers who's networks they are trying to put their devices on. I can't really see them saying we are releasing a GSM 650, but we have not tested it with any of the GSM carriers anywhere. That would work really well. What little percentage of devices they can sell directly, is nothing in relation to what all the carriers sell for them. Look at how many stores in the US each of the major providers has... I am sure PalmOne can compete with that by selling from a web site.

    Why are you taking the whole thing so personal? If I disliked Palm as much as you seem to I would get some other device and not give them my money.
  11. #911  
    Quote Originally Posted by helpermonkey
    jimf,

    That information is completely false. If a phone had an EDGE radio in it, the maker would be stupid not to turn it on. It would just be done in software. So cost would not be changed. Most manufacturers are still playing catch up on EDGE. I had a Nokia 6200 EDGE phone AGES ago, still some companies don't even sell one.

    BTW, what tech specs are you refering too? GSM in general? EDGE is simply an add on to GPRS, but just because a phone can do GPRS does not have anything to do with it being able to do EDGE.
    The tech specs for the GSM Treo 650 say EDGE. It has EDGE. However my understanding is that T-Mobile doesn't have an EDGE Network in the US yet, which would be the reason why a 650 with T-Mobile sim card doesn't have EDGE.

    The following is a quote from the PDF datasheet for the GSM 650 I just downloaded from PalmOne's website:

    "And it supports GSM EDGE networks, a worldwide standard for high-speed wireless data communications. EDGE technology offers fast and secure access to email, the web, and enterprise applications. 3"

    The footnote says:
    "3 EDGE service not available in all areas. See service coverage map for details"

    The 650 has EDGE. T-Mobile doesn't. ATT does, so does Rogers in Canada so I'm happy.
    Oh, so they have internet on computers now!
    --Treo 650 unlocked/unbranded with Rogers
  12. #912  
    Ok, I may have missunderstood the original statement. I thought he was talking about GSM phones in general. Yes I know the 650 GSM is an EDGE device. It is EDGE class 10 class B. That is 4 slots up 1 slot down (I am not sure if it supports 3 up 2 down).
  13. #913  
    Maybe I am not understanding what you are saying. If so, I apologize. A 650 with T-Mobile SIM should still have EDGE (it STILL would be an edge compatible device), there just wouldn't be any edge "communcations" going on because the T-Mobile network doesn't support it. Just like my desktop PC is a 1 gigabit network workstation ..... except I don't have a gigabit switch on my network. It's STILL a 1 gigabit device. I don't believe the SIM has anything to do with whether it's EDGE compatible or not. I don't believe T-Mobile would remove or disable EDGE, it just wouldn't communicate at those speeds (and of course T-Mobile wouldn't advertise it as such because they don't have the EDGE network infrastructure). Are you saying their "version" would have EDGE physically disabled/removed because their netowrk isn't compatible?
    Quote Originally Posted by Boobookins
    The tech specs for the GSM Treo 650 say EDGE. It has EDGE. However my understanding is that T-Mobile doesn't have an EDGE Network in the US yet, which would be the reason why a 650 with T-Mobile sim card doesn't have EDGE.
  14. #914  
    I agree with you decision to wait but why do you want to switch to Cingular?

    FoxWatch
  15. #915  
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterEd
    Maybe I am not understanding what you are saying. If so, I apologize. A 650 with T-Mobile SIM should still have EDGE (it STILL would be an edge compatible device), there just wouldn't be any edge "communcations" going on because the T-Mobile network doesn't support it. Just like my desktop PC is a 1 gigabit network workstation ..... except I don't have a gigabit switch on my network. It's STILL a 1 gigabit device. I don't believe the SIM has anything to do with whether it's EDGE compatible or not. I don't believe T-Mobile would remove or disable EDGE, it just wouldn't communicate at those speeds (and of course T-Mobile wouldn't advertise it as such because they don't have the EDGE network infrastructure). Are you saying their "version" would have EDGE physically disabled/removed because their netowrk isn't compatible?
    MisterEd you are correct. Maybe you said it better than any of the rest of us though.
  16. #916  
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterEd
    Maybe I am not understanding what you are saying. If so, I apologize. A 650 with T-Mobile SIM should still have EDGE (it STILL would be an edge compatible device), there just wouldn't be any edge "communcations" going on because the T-Mobile network doesn't support it. Just like my desktop PC is a 1 gigabit network workstation ..... except I don't have a gigabit switch on my network. It's STILL a 1 gigabit device. I don't believe the SIM has anything to do with whether it's EDGE compatible or not. I don't believe T-Mobile would remove or disable EDGE, it just wouldn't communicate at those speeds (and of course T-Mobile wouldn't advertise it as such because they don't have the EDGE network infrastructure). Are you saying their "version" would have EDGE physically disabled/removed because their netowrk isn't compatible?
    Actually it's exactly as you describe. The 650 is an EDGE device, but you just don't get those connection speeds on a T-Mobile network because their network doesn't support EDGE. There would physically be nothing different in the 650, and when P1 finally gets around to selling us unlocked GSM phones we will be able to use these with any GSM provider. Whether we get the benefit of EDGE speeds will depend on the network, but our phone will have the capability to take advantage of EDGE on those networks that provide. For now it looks like T-Mobile customers are SOL until T-Mobile upgrades their network.
    Oh, so they have internet on computers now!
    --Treo 650 unlocked/unbranded with Rogers
  17. #917  
    Quote Originally Posted by helpermonkey
    MisterEd you are correct. Maybe you said it better than any of the rest of us though.
    Agreed, MisterEd you did the best job of summarizing.
    Oh, so they have internet on computers now!
    --Treo 650 unlocked/unbranded with Rogers
  18. #918  
    So, I know this is off topic, but I am no T-Mobile user - why aren't they offering edge? Do you know when / of they will? Sounds as if they are really befind the pack on that one.
  19. #919  
    My guess, probably $$$$$. That's probably how they are able to be one of the (if not the) lowest cost "national" provider with probably the least overall coverage of all (but with some of the "coolest" devices of all the providers). They also have the most beautiful spokesperson. From their advertising their market seems to be the young "hip" crowd and don't hit the business world too heavily.
    Quote Originally Posted by helpermonkey
    So, I know this is off topic, but I am no T-Mobile user - why aren't they offering edge? Do you know when / of they will? Sounds as if they are really befind the pack on that one.
  20. #920  
    Quote Originally Posted by helpermonkey
    So, I know this is off topic, but I am no T-Mobile user - why aren't they offering edge? Do you know when / of they will? Sounds as if they are really befind the pack on that one.
    I think companies that provide EDGE now have been primarly focused on the PC wireless card business. How much market share have EDGE phones really had in the US up to this point? And Other than smarthphones like the TREO's, how many people really need, want, are looking for higher data speeds on their phones?

    T-Mobile may have a plan to upgrade their network based on when they think the demand for such a service warrents the cost. Also T-Mobile is all about Wifi hotspots and obviously that has been their focus for high-speed data access. They may not care about EDGE phones right now.

    Of course all this is baseless speculation on my part and I'm really just talking out of my *** at this point.
    Oh, so they have internet on computers now!
    --Treo 650 unlocked/unbranded with Rogers

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