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  1. #841  
    Hayswj,

    You seem like a cool person. The props comment is not referring to you. It's referring to those persons who hastily rush to create a new threads, "GSM Treo 650 Announced" ... "It's Official", etc..... There are some people who want an edge so to speak...perhaps "one-up-man-ship" thinking. However, in my case, I am trying to respect the TC forum rules and post good information and comments inside appropriate forums. When I am wrong about something or have a bad source, I say to my fellow thread members "I was wrong. My sources were bad." It doesn't take anything from me. I think that's courteous and respectful -- and fosters a great environment for information exchange. You may not agree, but that is the way I see the world.

    Now...regarding your post yesterday. I read it and I am certain others did also. Please forgive me if I am skeptical about embracing another date and building my hopes up. I too want this phone badly, but I don't think it's fair to contribute to the frenzy. So a couple of weeks back I decided not to feel anxious because it will come when it comes....
    Quote Originally Posted by Hayswj
    I posted this yesterday, but nobody appeared to read it.. This is straight from Cingular B2B, who at the beginning of the week said they had no idea. BTW I'm not looking for props, I just want to share my information, because I know how badly I want this phone....

    Well I just got off the phone with Cingular B2B... AND...... They said something different then the normal we have no idea... This guy said "Actually we do have some information for you, they will be available Jan 25 or 26th. Would you like me to take your name so I can call you when they come in...." I called back to verify it with another rep. and he said the same thing.... My original information was that there was going to be a Treo 650 announcement today Jan 5th, and a release the 20th from my sources before (the25 or 26th is pretty close)... So maybe this is the info that everyone is looking for.. Of course it is still a wait and see what happens......
  2. #842  
    Without any doubt whatsoever there are (is).
    Quote Originally Posted by specimen38
    I think we are fairly certain that there are PalmOne moles who lurk TC to report back information from the bleeding edge of discussion from early technology adapters, but I was wondering if there are Cingular moles doing same?
  3. #843  
    The only uncertainty is when they will be "ready for prime time." No one will know that until the Cing testers say so. I guess that could be 1 day or it could be 2 months. There's obviously no doubt there IS a product and I think we'll see it sooner rather then later.

    Frankly, I'd rather wait another 2 months for a GOOD release then have to deal with a buggy release. I wouldn't LIKE to wait ....... but ........


    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    Well, we certainly agree there.

    However, if there is as much uncertainty as you suggest, that uncertainty puts into question, by definition, whether or not there is a 650 GSM product. All we have is an intention, without a commitment, to offer such a product of some kind at some uncertain time in some future from a company that is notorious for vaporware.
  4. #844  
    I still say this is one of the worst product releases ever. It makes absolutely no sense why Palm would be so secretive about the release date. If its not untill march, just say so.
  5. #845  
    Or NOT call you when they DON'T come in. Same old same old. At least it makes for more entertainment. EVENTUALLY, someone is going to get it right, if for no other reason, just by luck.

    No disrespect meant to either you or your B2B guys. It's just one more date to add to the list (although end of Jan is much more logical then Jan 5th).

    Quote Originally Posted by Hayswj
    Well I just got off the phone with Cingular B2B... AND...... They said something different then the normal we have no idea... This guy said "Actually we do have some information for you, they will be available Jan 25 or 26th. Would you like me to take your name so I can call you when they come in...."
  6. #846  
    MAYBE THEY JUST DON'T KNOW ??????????????? It's not up to PALM it's up to CINGULAR. When Cingular accepts the "fixes" that they want from P1 then Palm would know. Once Cingular releases THEN Palm should be able to say when THEY will sell direct. They certainly are not going to have TWO GSM versions. One all bug repaired for Cingular and one not fixed for them to sell. Cingular will be selling it first before Palm so it's up to Cingular to announce it's availabilty just as Sprint did (problems and all).

    Here, THIS MESSAGE makes the most sense of anything posted to date: http://discuss.treocentral.com/showp...&postcount=112



    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman
    I still say this is one of the worst product releases ever. It makes absolutely no sense why Palm would be so secretive about the release date. If its not untill march, just say so.
  7. #847  
    Cingular cant stop Palm from releasing an unbranded version. Or how about Palm saying "we are working on fixing some problems, the release will be soon after".

    Instead palm says nothing.
  8. #848  
    Of course Palm says nothing. Of course they can keep Palm from selling on their own if it was part of their agreement with Cingular. They (Cing) could have exclusivity for ??? months in their contracts with Cingular. And Palm may very well have no right to discuss any "problems" they are having with a Cingular branded device. If I was Cingular I'd make damn sure Palm didn't expose any issues with the (non-released) device we (Cing) would be releasing. If Palm didn't have those NDA's I'd be very surprised. There was never even any (official) discussion of the Sprint release either. In fact, it technically didn't even officially exist until a very short period before it was released. I don't think they even "officially" admitted it existed until early November and it was released around the 17th. Sure, there were rumors, but that was all. Nothing was official.

    Problem is, we all see the Sprint release and think that the GSM model should be right after it. No one ever (officially) said it would. It's a totally different radio. If you believe what has been written by C-Net, Sprint had all production through the first of the year. They may not even be manufacturing the GSM models until the final, fixed, rom release is available.

    I think Palm is doing just what Cingular wants them to do. Keeping quiet until they are READY to release just like they did with Sprint. Palm is the manufacturer, Cingular is the customer and they must do whatever they agreed upon.

    I also won't be surprised if the "unlocked" GSM models we are waiting for from VC are just unlocked Cingular branded versions and not unbranded.

    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman
    Cingular cant stop Palm from releasing an unbranded version. Or how about Palm saying "we are working on fixing some problems, the release will be soon after".

    Instead palm says nothing.
  9. #849  
    Problem is, we all see the Sprint release and think that the GSM model should be right after it. No one ever (officially) said it would. It's a totally different radio. If you believe what has been written by C-Net, Sprint had all production through the first of the year. They may not even be manufacturing the GSM models until the final, fixed, rom release is available.


    And thats the problem...Palm says nothing. We all know the product is out there for cdma, we know its "coming soon" for gsm. The problem is, nobody knows what "soon" means. If there problems that need to be fixed, Palm should announce "coming soon, after bugs are fixed". Even that announcement would make alot of people happy.
  10. #850  
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterEd
    Problem is, we all see the Sprint release and think that the GSM model should be right after it. No one ever (officially) said it would.
    Actually if I remember correctly I'm 90% certain that PalmOne officially made statements that GSM 650 would be released Internationally in January of 2005. These statements were made right after the CDMA Sprint version was released. I'm also 100% certain that when I phoned PalmOne (for a lark) to inquire about purchasing a 650 I was told that the GSM 650 would be released Internationally in January. Now they may have backed away from such a stance, or things may be delayed, and problems like the sound glitch and memory that they're working may be reasons for the delay, but I do doubt that P1 would have made such statements if they've always known that it was up Cingular as when the GSM 650 could be released Internationally.
    Oh, so they have internet on computers now!
    --Treo 650 unlocked/unbranded with Rogers
  11. #851  
    Actually they said "Carrier availability is expected to begin later this year in the United States, with worldwide rollout to follow in 2005." No month was given. Here is official announcement dated 10/25/04:

    http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...02307936&EDATE=

    This was referring to BOTH models, not the GSM. It did BEGIN late in 2004 and is now continuing. Cingular can have exclusivity for whatever period they agree on.



    Quote Originally Posted by Boobookins
    Actually if I remember correctly I'm 90% certain that PalmOne officially made statements that GSM 650 would be released Internationally in January of 2005. These statements were made right after the CDMA Sprint version was released. I'm also 100% certain that when I phoned PalmOne (for a lark) to inquire about purchasing a 650 I was told that the GSM 650 would be released Internationally in January. Now they may have backed away from such a stance, or things may be delayed, and problems like the sound glitch and memory that they're working may be reasons for the delay, but I do doubt that P1 would have made such statements if they've always known that it was up Cingular as when the GSM 650 could be released Internationally.
  12. #852  
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterEd
    I think Palm is doing just what Cingular wants them to do. Keeping quiet until they are READY to release just like they did with Sprint. Palm is the manufacturer, Cingular is the customer and they must do whatever they agreed upon.

    I also won't be surprised if the "unlocked" GSM models we are waiting for from VC are just unlocked Cingular branded versions and not unbranded.
    Perhaps. However, that is pure speculation on your part. That this behavior is part of an established pattern of behavior on P1's part is not. This is the 600 release all over again. No one liked it then and no one likes it now.

    There is no product until someone offers it for sale on a date and at a price certain. In P1's case, the only date that counts is today. No promise from them about what they might do on any date in the future has any credibility at all. Never mind the commitments that they make to end users; they have systematically reneged on dates that they committed to distributors.
  13. #853  
    Of course it's speculation on my part as is EVERY POST ON THIS BOARD BY EVERYONE nothing but pure speculation. That's why I preface my comments with "I think" or "In my opinion."
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    Perhaps. However, that is pure speculation on your part. That this behavior is part of an established pattern of behavior on P1's part is not. This is the 600 release all over again. No one liked it then and no one likes it now.


    There is no product until someone offers it for sale on a date and at a price certain. In P1's case, the only date that counts is today. No promise from them about what they might do on any date in the future has any credibility at all. Never mind the commitments that they make to end users; they have systematically reneged on dates that they committed to distributors.
  14. #854  
    You people are all talking crazy. Short of Sprint having a lock on the 650 still, and no one else being able to sell it, why would P1 sit on the GSM version? Well if it was ready to go I can't think of one reason, can you? Now on the other hand if they are still working on it, why would they talk about a release date? Something you are trying to fix doesn't have a hard release date, so why open your mouth and make things worse. I am not saying they didn't say what you all claim they have at all. I just think it's not very sensable to expect them to tell you how the project is going. When is the last time you read Ford Motors reports that once they fix the deadly break failure problem in the 2006 Focus, it will be available to the public... or Miscrosoft says, we will ship Windows 200X when we get at least a couple more of those horible bugs fixed? Does that make them look better some how? Granted you are all freaking out to get your hands on one, but do you think the vast majority of the people who will buy it are just dying to get it? No, I think the average buyer, even of a device like this, just sees it is available and gets it, they aren't reading rumor forums and eveerything all day long. If they hear the Treo 650 GSM has problems, that is what they will remember, it's bad publicity. Keeping quiet it the smart thing to do, that's why they do it.

    I hope that did not insult anyone or anything. Just trying to point out why palm might take the possition you so dislike.
  15. #855  
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterEd
    Of course it's speculation on my part as is EVERY POST ON THIS BOARD BY EVERYONE nothing but pure speculation. That's why I preface my comments with "I think" or "In my opinion."
    Perhaps. However, I would argue that it is self evident to regular participants here that P1 cannot be relied upon.
  16. #856  
    It hurts companies when customers are want their product and they can't put the product in the customers hands, and it doesn't matter what the reason for this inability is, all the customer cares about is the fact that "they personally" can't buy one. Usually this happens when companies have mismanaged inventory/demand, but regardless, this seeminly endless waiting, especially when Sprint phones are out there in the world, is going to hurt P1. They will lose sales. You already see a bunch of posts by people who say "I couldn't wait any longer so I went out a purchased X" and for each of those posts there are numerous silent others doing the same thing. The longer the wait, the more customers they lose. A few have switched to Sprint, but for some of us GSM is must and we'll end up switching to phone x, y, or z and many of us who switch will never be back.
    Oh, so they have internet on computers now!
    --Treo 650 unlocked/unbranded with Rogers
  17. #857  
    I'm coming from Nextel (whom I've have service for 3 years) I want the Treo 650 & I want to switch to T Mobile. Or hell I'll even go to Cingular, but T mobiles Service is way better.. I'm waiting with you guys. Sprint Sucks really bad.
  18. #858  
    Quote Originally Posted by Boobookins
    It hurts companies when customers are want their product and they can't put the product in the customers hands, and it doesn't matter what the reason for this inability is, all the customer cares about is the fact that "they personally" can't buy one. Usually this happens when companies have mismanaged inventory/demand, but regardless, this seeminly endless waiting, especially when Sprint phones are out there in the world, is going to hurt P1. They will lose sales. You already see a bunch of posts by people who say "I couldn't wait any longer so I went out a purchased X" and for each of those posts there are numerous silent others doing the same thing. The longer the wait, the more customers they lose. A few have switched to Sprint, but for some of us GSM is must and we'll end up switching to phone x, y, or z and many of us who switch will never be back.
    You said it, it does hurt them, so they sure aren't waiting to release on purpose. That being said what should they do? They can't release a product until it is done.
  19. #859  
    Quote Originally Posted by helpermonkey
    You said it, it does hurt them, so they sure aren't waiting to release on purpose. That being said what should they do? They can't release a product until it is done.
    Absolutely, you're right. I'm sure they're doing their best, and whatever the hiccup I'm sure some Executives are yelling about, possibly to other Executives at P1. At this point they do need to nail down a release. It needs to be soonish. (Say sometime in February, something that if people knew with confidence they could the phone they want would keep them waiting.) And they need to communicate this date because I think that calm a lot of people down. It gives people a date to look forward to, something to circle on the calander. It lets people plan, and I think it would stop some people from jumping ship now if they knew that the wait was almost over, instead being in this limbo of frustration and uncertainty.

    Wow, did I just get all worked up about a phone. Screw it, I'm not getting a 650. I'm getting a cat instead. I wonder if Vaja makes a nice cat carrier?
    Oh, so they have internet on computers now!
    --Treo 650 unlocked/unbranded with Rogers
  20. #860  
    This man hit the nail right on the head. That should be the final word. "They" have finally spoken the truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by helpermonkey
    You people are all talking crazy. Short of Sprint having a lock on the 650 still, and no one else being able to sell it, why would P1 sit on the GSM version? Well if it was ready to go I can't think of one reason, can you? Now on the other hand if they are still working on it, why would they talk about a release date? Something you are trying to fix doesn't have a hard release date, so why open your mouth and make things worse. I am not saying they didn't say what you all claim they have at all. I just think it's not very sensable to expect them to tell you how the project is going. When is the last time you read Ford Motors reports that once they fix the deadly break failure problem in the 2006 Focus, it will be available to the public... or Miscrosoft says, we will ship Windows 200X when we get at least a couple more of those horible bugs fixed? Does that make them look better some how? Granted you are all freaking out to get your hands on one, but do you think the vast majority of the people who will buy it are just dying to get it? No, I think the average buyer, even of a device like this, just sees it is available and gets it, they aren't reading rumor forums and eveerything all day long. If they hear the Treo 650 GSM has problems, that is what they will remember, it's bad publicity. Keeping quiet it the smart thing to do, that's why they do it.

    I hope that did not insult anyone or anything. Just trying to point out why palm might take the possition you so dislike.

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