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  1. #21  
    I've heard that P1 is on an 11 month dev cycle for their smartphones.
  2. #22  
    FWIW, this new memory scheme will mess with the current version of Backup Buddy. They are aware of the issue and will need to release an update.
  3. #23  
    The thing about these software updates, like the one for BackupBuddy, is that they'll force you to upgrade to the latest versions. There are many times I've been happy with an older version and not cared to upgrade. Now this new memory architecture comes along and the old versions don't work. This means I'll have to factor in the cost of the software upgrades into the mix.
  4. #24  
    About flash sector life. (Don't need to worry so much.)
    The technique mentioned in this article is old news.

    http://www.elecdesign.com/Articles/A...4018/4018.html

    The important part:

    Sector remapping takes into account the limited number of updates supported by flash memory. This is rarely the entire flash-memory array that's repeatedly updated. Instead, the typical mode of operation is to change one or more sectors on a regular basis.

    Without sector remapping, the chip essentially becomes useless when a sector can no longer be updated. With sector remapping, a different sector can be used for each update while unused sectors are recycled for later use. This form of wear-leveling significantly increases the overall useful lifetime of the chip. The same technique is used to handle bad sectors as well.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by DaleReeck
    Aw, come on man. Now, there's TOO much memory.
    Actually quite the oppisate.
    First off, i must disqualify myself as an enginner. I am not all that smart.

    But in reading the article, as I understand it, since the Treo has to duplicate/access the NAND memory, it does so in chunks for faster access and writing and such. These chunks are; as a result (for speedy delivery), addressed in larger chunks than the Treo 600. What this means is that it is far less efficient in utilizing the space available.

    Let's say it works in, I don't know 256 byte blocks or something. That means if you have a record that is 48 bytes, when it gets written you just wasted 208 bytes.

    That is not good.

    That makes the lowly 23MBs even worse. Effectively giving you something like maybe 15MBs.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie
    Actually quite the oppisate.
    First off, i must disqualify myself as an enginner. I am not all that smart.

    But in reading the article, as I understand it, since the Treo has to duplicate/access the NAND memory, it does so in chunks for faster access and writing and such. These chunks are; as a result (for speedy delivery), addressed in larger chunks than the Treo 600. What this means is that it is far less efficient in utilizing the space available.

    Let's say it works in, I don't know 256 byte blocks or something. That means if you have a record that is 48 bytes, when it gets written you just wasted 208 bytes.

    That is not good.

    That makes the lowly 23MBs even worse. Effectively giving you something like maybe 15MBs.

    and this is EXACTLY what people are seeing. People are not able to store all their software. Palm screwed the pooch on this one...I know people complained about memory before but I don't think any of us realized it would be this bad...
    ELR
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  7. #27  
    I was kinda hoping it wasn't going to be that big of an issue (because I really WANT to like the Treo 650), but every couple of days that go by, I here about some other disappointing factor in the new design.

    For me, this phone is a step backwards. That is disappointing.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie
    Actually quite the oppisate.
    First off, i must disqualify myself as an enginner. I am not all that smart.

    But in reading the article, as I understand it, since the Treo has to duplicate/access the NAND memory, it does so in chunks for faster access and writing and such. These chunks are; as a result (for speedy delivery), addressed in larger chunks than the Treo 600. What this means is that it is far less efficient in utilizing the space available.

    Let's say it works in, I don't know 256 byte blocks or something. That means if you have a record that is 48 bytes, when it gets written you just wasted 208 bytes.

    That is not good.

    That makes the lowly 23MBs even worse. Effectively giving you something like maybe 15MBs.
    That is truly pathetic. PowerRun can only do so much. Looks like I'll have to look into MSMount more closely, and even that may not be enough.

    The only large apps that HAVE to stay in RAM for my needs are Chatter, Documents (core prc only), McPhling, PTunes, Uninstall, VeriChat, and WebViewer/Java. It''s a shame that it's gotten to this point of nit-picking apps.
  9. #29  
    Hmm, it doesn't seem to mention that this new flash memory stores data in 512 byte chunks, therefore, effectively giving you less storage space than on the Treo 600.
  10. #30  
    Perhaps you should re-read it.

    One of a couple paragraphs follows:
    "All user data on the Tungsten T5 and Treo 650 is stored in NAND Flash this type of flash is known for being fastest when reading and writing large blocks, and when erasing large blocks. It is Flash memory, but it can't be accessed directly like memory - the NAND Flash really is accessed more like a hard drive."
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