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  1.    #1  
    I think there are a few reasons why you are seeing people post negative things about the Treo 650:

    1. People saw higher specs listed and hopes were raised. For instance the camera that while it appears to be a big improvement, has the same number of pixels as the one on the Treo 650. From a spec standpoint, it looks like no improvement.

    2. People are running into limitations with the Treo 600 that the Treo 650 doesn't address. For this one, I'm thinking memory. Some applications can't be moved over to the SD card and it's a pretty clumsy process overall. I hear if you buy something like ZLauncher it fixes a lot of the clumsiness, but I don't think people want to purchase a product to make the file system work better. That should be the OS' job. I don't install lot of applications, but Java takes up quite a bit. Blazer cache is always a couple and mail is also a few unless you purge it every so often.

    3. Constructive criticism because they love the Treo and see it so close to being "complete" that it hurts to not finish it. This is probably the biggest one. For me it's wifi and the IR strength. Those two things make the device probably worth another $500 to me as it replaces the need for me to get an iPod (stream music over wifi) and a universal remote (which are pricey). Sure it's not the same either of the real deals, but convergence never is. It's like the camera, it's not going to replace a 4MP camera with a flash, but in some situations it's just useful (taking pictures after a car accident for exampe). These are just a couple of the features for me personally. There's enough about these in other threads so let's not discuss it here and just reduce this point to "missing feature X", where "X" is a feature in another phone that is valuable to you.

    4. Fear of competition. I'm guilty of this one. PPC has started to get there act together. They don't quite have the form factor there, but for the first time, there are things that the PPC can do that the Treo can't. I feel jealousy when someone with a PPC phone can streaming audio/video over their home network and I can't. Before I could stand tall and be happy that I have a keyboard, form factor, a lot of great usability, and it could do everything that PPC could do. PPC can do the keyboard and features that the Treo can't. So now instead of a no-brainer it's a battle of what's more valuable to me, form factor and usability, or wifi. I've been firmly in the Palm camp for years like many of the people in these forums. I'd like to stay there. It's familiar to me, I love the underdog, and I think that the Treo's success gives the market more choices and more competition, so I want to support that.

    To sum up there are many reasons (perhaps some I forgot) why people complain about the Treo 650, but it doesn't mean it isn't loved. I think it actually means quite the opposite and that we love it so much that we want to push it to the undisputed top. By voicing our dissatisfactions, Palm can get better feedback for the Treo 700. It worked with the Treo 650 where people got features such as hi-res, removable battery, and bluetooth.
  2. alee's Avatar
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    #2  
    1 and 2 are essentially the same, and I do agree with you on most of your points, although I would say although #3 is worth another $500 to you, the market would never bear a device that expensive. It would be you, me, and a half dozen folks shelling out $1100 for it, and everyone else complaining about it being so expensive.

    The bigger problem is because of the delay between announcement and general public availability, we are left with too much time to sit around and second-guess ourselves. Once the big brown truck starts making deliveries, I think people will finally be able to make more qualified decisions on what the Treo 650 is and what it isn't. Playing with a Treo 650 for 15 min at the Road Show is not enough time to judge the product properly, and reading a Treo review on a Treo website is obviously a slanted view. Specs alone don't tell the full story.
  3.    #3  
    I think there's a slight difference between 1 and 2. A lot of people on these boards were counting on a 1.3MP camera, and when it didn't appear as all the leaks said it would, people were disappointed.

    However, in case #2 there were very few legit leaks (I think maybe one if any) of there being more than 32MB of memory. So when it came with 32MB, people couldn't be too let down by a drop of a perceived gain. They just didn't get that feature they had hoped for. Thus I'd almost say it's like #3, but because it's an upgrade it's not an entirely new Feature X.

    In #3, I completely agree. I'm not saying that I'd pay that much, but as separate devices, I'd have to pay another $500 to match what those features added. It's kind of like my broadband bill each month or my computer at home. Both are worth more to me than they actually cost. The features I mentioned for the Treo would be the same way. The Treo is already worth more to me than it actually costs, but it would put it in a whole new stratisphere. What particularly annoys me is that two features are fairly cheap to add. Sony had strong IR ports for remote use back with their Clies years ago. There's no way this is a part that costs more than $5 and I'm expecting it to be closer to $2. The other one is simply the software to make their own wifi card work. Any cost of developing this should be offset by sales of the wifi card to a large degree.

    I agree that the bigger problem you mention is indeed a problem, but it's not related to the Treo's 650 features, which is what I was going for with this thread. However, If you are at a roadshow and can get it for $349, I don't know why anyone (with a Treo 600) wouldn't do this and sell their Treo 600 on eBay. I'm thinking it would be net cost to them of something like $75, which seems like a very good risk when you consider there are some good upgrades and not really any known downgrades from the Treo 600 (at least that I can think of).
  4. #4  
    You forgot # 5:

    Some people are never happy except when they have something to complain about.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  5. #5  
    You also forgot #6
    There is no single item that will satisfy EVERYONE.

    Thus, you end up with the few out of the many making a big stink.

    "Age is only a number society has inflicted upon us to number our days on Earth."
    ~Stephen Todd
  6. Iceman6's Avatar
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    #6  
    It is human nature, especially GEEK human nature, to ask "what have you done for me lately?" when it comes to upgraded products. Today's new-and-improved products become tomorrow's obsolete handsets. I think the Treo 650 will sell better than the 600, due to the improved screen. The 600 will sell better than it ever did, due to the sharply lower price. They both better be made by HTC though. Reliability is MUCH more important than Wifi when you are ordering in quantity 50 and up.

    I ain't saying that I'm buying a 650. But I might. The usability of the 650 looks to be even better than the 600 (improved screen, better keyboard). The PDA2K still looks too big to me, with the slider open.
  7. #7  
    One thing is true, no one product will ever satisfy all. The 4 points mentioned above may eventually come out as some product but as a Treo 600 owner right now, I know this phone/pda is the best on the market. The 650 is going to be such an improvement that I might just wet my pants. I don't think that wi-fi is going to be of any extreme value - seems if you need that, you really need a PC because I have not found anything that I do using the wireless capability that has hindered me in the least. I have the Sony Clie 50 with wireless and bluetooth and at a cost of about $800 bucks, it is sitting in a bag not being used.
  8. vike's Avatar
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    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb
    You forgot # 5:

    Some people are never happy except when they have something to complain about.
    Reminds me of an old saying about the nature of complaints: To some it's a hassle, to some an opportunity to learn ...
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by kirkeric
    I have the Sony Clie 50 with wireless and bluetooth and at a cost of about $800 bucks, it is sitting in a bag not being used.
    I will give you $50 for it.

    "Age is only a number society has inflicted upon us to number our days on Earth."
    ~Stephen Todd
  10. #10  
    It is worth far more than that my friend If you are familiar with it I am sure you will agree.
  11. #11  
    But if it is being unused it isn't worth anything. Especially if it stays unused and goes out of date. Make $50 while you still can.

    "Age is only a number society has inflicted upon us to number our days on Earth."
    ~Stephen Todd
  12. trellus's Avatar
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by kirkeric
    .... I have the Sony Clie 50 with wireless and bluetooth and at a cost of about $800 bucks, it is sitting in a bag not being used.
    Oh, why, oh WHY, are you not selling said Clie on ebay -- or even better yet, giving it to me so I sell it on ebay?

    ...Nothing makes me weep more than a depreciating, unused device left to rot...
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by trellus
    Oh, why, oh WHY, are you not selling said Clie on ebay -- or even better yet, giving it to me so I sell it on ebay?

    ...Nothing makes me weep more than a depreciating, unused device left to rot...
    You better step back!!! I get the Clie for $50.

    "Age is only a number society has inflicted upon us to number our days on Earth."
    ~Stephen Todd
  14. #14  
    An unused ELECTRONIC device for that matter!

    Quote Originally Posted by trellus
    ...Nothing makes me weep more than a depreciating, unused device left to rot...
  15. #15  
    $75.99 for the Clie
  16. #16  
    I'll even pay shipping
  17. #17  
    OK...$76 plus shipping. I will even tell people on here how GREAT you are.

    "Age is only a number society has inflicted upon us to number our days on Earth."
    ~Stephen Todd
  18. #18  
    I would like someone to show us what complaints were made about the Treo 300/180 and see if we have meet up with those yet...?

    -CK
  19. #19  
    Before I really up the ante, are there any accessories included? Perhaps, the bag its sitting in?
  20.    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by kirkeric
    I don't think that wi-fi is going to be of any extreme value - seems if you need that, you really need a PC because I have not found anything that I do using the wireless capability that has hindered me in the least. I have the Sony Clie 50 with wireless and bluetooth and at a cost of about $800 bucks, it is sitting in a bag not being used.
    I've tried streaming music around my house on my PC and it works fine, but my PC just isn't portable enough. Even my notebook is too big to carry everywhere. Imagine just bringing your Treo 650 into any room your house and docking it to some speakers (like the millions the iPod have) and there's your music. That's one of like 10 very useful things that come from wifi.

    From everyone I've heard, they've had the exact opposite experience. A poster yesterday said that his Treo isn't used for the Internet at all anymore because he has a Tungsten C with the wifi. These are case by case situations that depend from person to person.

    In any event, my point on this thread is not about wifi specifically.
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