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  1.    #1  
    After watching a lot of give and take on these and other forums, I'm more convinced than ever that whether or not we get WiFi and wide open Bluetooth are issues of carrier suppression, NOT PalmOne's decision.

    1. Bluetooth: At first, NO tethering (DUN modem) support on the Sprint version of the T650, but the GSM versions all reported to include DUN. After a huge outcry, and having their ears clipped on the roadshow, Sprint's marketing VP says it's just a misunderstanding - DUN "profiles" not yet ready for launch, but they'll patch it later, and you can use your Sprint T650 as a Bluetooth modem. Yeah, right, just an oversight.

    2. WiFi: Non, nada, zip. But then, look at the hot new "Daxian" PPC 6600, which is being released by many carriers under many different OEM's. All with the same basic configuration - PPC, 128mb ram, SD, Bluetooth, sliding keyboard, and WiFi - EXCEPT - the Sprint PCS model, which won't have WiFi. My oh my, what a surprise.

    My point - if we want operational WiFi, we'll have to bust the carrier's chops, not PalmOne. They now live or die on that carrier relationship, so we can't expect them to carry the fight to Sprint and Verizon.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  2. DHart's Avatar
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    #2  
    I think you are exactly right, dstrauss. There is a lot of whining and angst on this board about the features of the 650. I think people forget that P1 is in business to make money and so are the carriers. Each makes decisions that benefit themselves - just as each of us do.
  3. #3  
    Didn't someone at Palm1 say the problem was because there was interference between the Wifi radio and the CDMA radio?
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by kschoenberg
    Didn't someone at Palm1 say the problem was because there was interference between the Wifi radio and the CDMA radio?
    what's the hitch with hp making the h6315 then? quadband+802.11b+bluetooth
    or the rw6100 for that matter? its cdma+802.11b
    http://tinyurl.com/4g25n
  5. #5  
    me too. Tmobile has pushed the H6315 so much. I see it in every mag from UK mags to USA mags. IT is all over their website. In the stores the day it came out, advertised from the 1800# and their website.

    For the Treo 600 it was

    "well now we offer the Treo 600"

    Like someone made them take it. I don't think they will be getting the 650 until wifi is included in the phone in the 700 or they could bundle the 650 with the WiFI card. Very unlikly.

    Any how. Tmobile will not be getting this phone. Yeah for unlocked 650s
  6.    #6  
    I think wolwol is right - radio interference is a smokescreen. Others are already doing it, and some (HP) have a fair degree of success in transparently switching between data services (not perfect, but a fairly good first try).
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  7. alee's Avatar
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    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    I think wolwol is right - radio interference is a smokescreen. Others are already doing it, and some (HP) have a fair degree of success in transparently switching between data services (not perfect, but a fairly good first try).
    Unless it's a matter of getting the appropriate shielding in such a tight form factor. More likely though, it was a budget constraint. PalmOne already said that the carriers set the maximum price for the Treo 650, and as a result memory had to be scaled back. Adding a WiFi radio was probably another feature that got slashed in the budget.
  8. #8  
    WiFi or Bluetooth should not interfere with the CDMA or GSM radio since they are in different frequency ranges unless the radios just plain suck (1.9 GHz is closest to 2.4 Ghz and that is still 500 Mhz seperation). Since Bluetooth and WiFi are on the same frequency (2.4 Ghz), they can, and in many cases do interfere with each other. I think that the newest Bluetooth and WiFi chipsets can work together better, but this used to be an issue with both working at the same time. I believe I read that TI came out with an integrated chip about a year ago that did both Bluetooth and WiFi and it was one of the first chips that could allow both to operated without interference. Depending on how long the 650 has been in development, it may not have made it into this one. HP has a lot more money to rapidly develop and grease the skids at the FCC for testing (this does happen in Government required testing all the time, NIST is the worst of them all), or Palm just decided it wouldn't be in this one.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by lnichols
    WiFi or Bluetooth should not interfere with the CDMA or GSM radio since they are in different frequency ranges unless the radios just plain suck (1.9 GHz is closest to 2.4 Ghz and that is still 500 Mhz seperation). Since Bluetooth and WiFi are on the same frequency (2.4 Ghz), they can, and in many cases do interfere with each other. I think that the newest Bluetooth and WiFi chipsets can work together better, but this used to be an issue with both working at the same time. I believe I read that TI came out with an integrated chip about a year ago that did both Bluetooth and WiFi and it was one of the first chips that could allow both to operated without interference. Depending on how long the 650 has been in development, it may not have made it into this one. HP has a lot more money to rapidly develop and grease the skids at the FCC for testing (this does happen in Government required testing all the time, NIST is the worst of them all), or Palm just decided it wouldn't be in this one.
    What you said is true. The problem is that PalmOne used the old 1.1 Bluetooth protocol. The new standard is 1.2 and uses frequency hopping to eliminate nearly all interference. That is what protocol the HP 6315 is using and that's why it works. But I believe that because the HP is on T-Mobile and T-Mobile has all their hot-spots, they wanted the HP to have WIFI. Sprint doesn't and so I believed that they convinced PalmOne to only use the 1.1 standard so that they could use "interference" as an excuse to not support WIFI.
  10. #10  
    This has gotten a bit off the track. The original author was suggesting that it was Sprint, not PalmOne that was limiting WiFi. If the Sprint version of the 6600 is also not going to include it he may have a point. Unless there is an interference or safey issue of some sort.

    It would cost extra to remove the WiFi functionality from the PPC phone...

    Now, why would Sprint care if we have WiFi? I can't imagine they're worried we're all going to get VoIP clients. If Anything it would take some of the load off their wireless data usage.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by kschoenberg
    I can't imagine they're worried we're all going to get VoIP clients. If Anything it would take some of the load off their wireless data usage.
    It could be that they are worried about this. Smartphone users and PDA users in general, on the norm, are likely more tech savvy than your standard free phone user and would know that they could use VOIP. Also Sprint is charging anywhere from $15 to $25 per month for Vision now. Some people may opt out of Vision if WiFi were available. I am pretty sure that Sprint is purely thinking about their bottom line.

    I doubt that Sprint will pay a dime to disable any feature on a phone. All they have to do is tell the manufacturer disable this or we won't let it on our network. The manufacturer won't think twice about turning off WiFi to access more potential customers.
  12. #12  
    Visit this link to see the greatest example of a PDA, then scroll down to see where Sprint stated "I/O capability enables third party WiFi cards."

    .
    No, my avatar is NOT a picture of me! If you don't recognize her then you are not nerdy enough to be in here.

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  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean18
    Visit this link to see the greatest example of a PDA, then scroll down to see where Sprint stated "I/O capability enables third party WiFi cards."

    .
    I see that. I guess you can buy a third party wi-fi card for the 6601, which would certainly give it a powerful edge against the T650. Hmm, 6601 looking better all the time.
  14. #14  
    Sprint advertisements said the same about the Treo 600, for both Bluetooth and Wi-Fi, unless you want to argue specific semantics. I don't know if it was worded any more vaguely a year ago.
  15. joele's Avatar
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    #15  
    I think that the newest Bluetooth and WiFi chipsets can work together better, but this used to be an issue with both working at the same time.
    I really don't think this is a general issue, I have been flamed down on this forum before for saying this, but my Imate PPC (XDA II) has bluetooth 1.1 and I use a sd wifi card and I can browse the web and talk on phone (using BT1.1 headset) without issue, and have never had an issue with this, ask on www.xda-developers.com no one using a PPC has a problem with this except Palm users do, but claim it is a general problem with wifi and BT 1.1 and not a Palm implementation issue...

    Flame away
  16. joele's Avatar
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    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by RawsonDR
    Sprint advertisements said the same about the Treo 600, for both Bluetooth and Wi-Fi, unless you want to argue specific semantics. I don't know if it was worded any more vaguely a year ago.
    Yeah but unless they have specially written in code to disallow the sandisk or connect wifi cards, the PDA2k (or 6600) will support the wifi cards just like the previous HTC PPC models do!

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