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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo-mike
    Can we start a single thread for people who wanna continue to whine about WiFi? I am getting so tired of reading this...it's not in...it sucks...but life goes on.
    I'd be for this if it was sponsored by TreoCentral and highlighted on the front page with big links and bounties for getting wifi to work. Until I see a Treo with wifi, I feel that there needs to be many, many threads on this to demostrate the demand for wifi.
  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by Im So Unpopular
    Am I the only one who thinks that having Wi-fi in a smartphone that already has 3g internet access is redundant? I struggle to understand why people are so indignant about the lack of wi-fi in an already internet-enabled device.
    Simple really.

    Cost mate

    I have broadband at home and it cost nothing to add another device.
    McDonalds give you free broadband WiFi hot spot when you dine in at their resteraunts in Australia as do several other cafe's.

    If I dial into GPRS which I only have available on the Internet at present and the Treo I will pay a pretty penny.

    Work it out.

    WiFi connects to existing connections usually for free.
    Ancient_One
    Blood and Honour
    (Those who live in the dark shall meet the light and all shall die by my hand.)

    (Device:Palm Pilot>Handspring Deluxe>Handspring Treo 270>Sony Clie NX60U>PalmOne Treo 600)
    (Beta Tester:Pocketdimension 2 / Quirl / PalmMAME / Seven Email Client)

  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    I'd be for this if it was sponsored by TreoCentral and highlighted on the front page with big links and bounties for getting wifi to work. Until I see a Treo with wifi, I feel that there needs to be many, many threads on this to demostrate the demand for wifi.
    The demand for WiFi is very eveident right from the start of teh Treo 600 device.

    PalmOne are just dragging their heals and playing fools game.

    The Phone can do it given the right Firmware and WiFi controller.

    The company refuse to do it as they are backing BlueTooth.

    Simple.
    Ancient_One
    Blood and Honour
    (Those who live in the dark shall meet the light and all shall die by my hand.)

    (Device:Palm Pilot>Handspring Deluxe>Handspring Treo 270>Sony Clie NX60U>PalmOne Treo 600)
    (Beta Tester:Pocketdimension 2 / Quirl / PalmMAME / Seven Email Client)

  4. joele's Avatar
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    #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by Albert C. Lee
    If you can't afford it, then I would have to say you need to carefully consider your wireless data needs and usage patterns. At this point, most carriers have plans that reach every level of use. Everyone thinks they need unlimited wireless, but not everyone needs it in practice.
    It is not so much can't afford it but more like refuse to pay $10 per MB, when at home, work and most friends places there is wifi there to use which costs me no extra, if I have to use GPRS I will, but if I can avoid wasting money, why wouldn't I???
    Last edited by joele; 11/01/2004 at 09:50 PM.
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    Interesting, I hate doing it with my laptop. It's just too big and clumsy for me to feel comfortable. Using something the size of the Treo is a better form factor. Yeah, I'd be trading screen size for comfort, but that's the kind of thing I'd be willing to do, especially if it's just a few stats or something. Also with the Treo you get instant on, while my laptop takes a few minutes to boot up. making it a decent consideration.
    Are you that needy and busy to not be able to wait! What the hell are you doing that you could not take the time out of your day for 2 mintues for your laptop to boot up?!? Geez, you act like you're whole life is going to crumble if you dont get your stats right then. Do you remember there was a time when you had to wait a day for the newspaper to come out to get stats.

    I understand the "benifits" to wi-fi. But there is truly no need for it with the Treo and an unlimited data plan. If you have enough money to buy a treo then you can say you are probably not hard up for money. Can you not get up off your lazy ***, walk about, at most, 30 feet to sit down in a chair and listen to your music or walk your videos. Just stop your whining. Wi-Fi is not built in, it may come out through a third party. If you need Wi-Fi buy another phone that has it. And stop complaining about how the Treo doesn't. If you want a Treo with Wi-Fi then complain to palmOne and wait til the next one comes out. Myself I am going to enjoy my 650 and my slow download times So just stop complain and buy something else!
  6. joele's Avatar
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    #106  
    it may come out through a third party
    Not if Palm can help it
  7. #107  
    Wait, does everyone think that palmOne adn the carriers are holding this technology back? why? explain this to me, and maybe ill be able to understand you point more and not sound so bull-headed
  8. #108  
    GPRS costs in Australia are very high and I am yet to hear of an unlimited data plan over here. I have WiFi internet access at home and at work, so for me, WiFi would be fantastic. It would save money if I could access the internet while at home or work to get my emails, etc, into the Palm/Treo but to be able to also access GPRS when I am not in either of these locations. An initial increase in cost of adding WiFi to the Treo would later be saved by not having to access GPRS as often.
    I actually currently use a T3 with Bluetooth to a laptop or T68i and it works well, but when I am at home I have to get my laptop out of it's bag, plug in the bluetooth adapter and turn it on before I can use the net on my Palm. WiFi would allow me to get in the door and just turn on my Palm to instant Internet access via my WiFi Router which is connected to broadband.....no need to turn on my laptop in that case.

    So, I think that I have 2 valid reasons as to why WiFi in a Treo would be useful for myself. Yes, I can get by without it, but I could save money and have less hassles if I had it.
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by zehubert
    Treo 650 + EDGE seems to be an alternative to Wifi, as long as the data plan is priced right. If EDGE is readily available, I don't really care about having wifi or not.

    For now, AT&T seems to be the only EDGE provider, and I don't want to go with them (horrible customer service, locked phone, expensive...)
    However, it seems EDGE is not as fast as they promise it to be. In the real world, EDGE transfer rates are lower than 1xRTT CDMA. I don't know why. Here is a recent test of EDGE.

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...pcworld/118365
  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeos
    Are you that needy and busy to not be able to wait! What the hell are you doing that you could not take the time out of your day for 2 mintues for your laptop to boot up?!? Geez, you act like you're whole life is going to crumble if you dont get your stats right then. Do you remember there was a time when you had to wait a day for the newspaper to come out to get stats.

    I understand the "benifits" to wi-fi. But there is truly no need for it with the Treo and an unlimited data plan. If you have enough money to buy a treo then you can say you are probably not hard up for money. Can you not get up off your lazy ***, walk about, at most, 30 feet to sit down in a chair and listen to your music or walk your videos. Just stop your whining. Wi-Fi is not built in, it may come out through a third party. If you need Wi-Fi buy another phone that has it. And stop complaining about how the Treo doesn't. If you want a Treo with Wi-Fi then complain to palmOne and wait til the next one comes out. Myself I am going to enjoy my 650 and my slow download times So just stop complain and buy something else!
    Ummm, yeah two minutes for a laptop to boot up, combined with the uncomfortableness of having on it on my lap is enough for me to say, "eh the batter will be out by the time I look it up", so I go without the stats. Now is it life changing? Of course not. The whole point is that it's just one of the several features that make wifi useful. In short, it's an example where information has to be timely to be useful - I don't know people can't understand this.

    Umm, the process of me listening to a mix of songs that I like outside of my office involves burning a CD and taking it into another room to play. It's not exactly a 30 second operation. Again, this is something that I don't do, so I go without music in most rooms in my home. I doesn't necessarily have to be this way as wifi cures that by making my mp3 collection available anywhere I am.

    I suppose I could go out and buy an ipod or another phone or yet something else (maybe a wifi PDA). The point is that it loses the convergence and requires an additional outlay of money. Treo has everything that I really need (in fact probably even more than I NEED), but I'm trying to build a case that with wifi, the Treo can become much, much more than it already is. It's a case where the combined features add up to something more the features separately (kind of like how a PDA and a Phone does).

    I'm not trying to just complain for complaining sake, I'm trying to build awareness of the possibilities of wifi. Perhaps others will read this thread and realize that they'd like to be able to stream music throughout their house. Products like the Sonos Music System (http://www.sonos.com/) will charge thousands of dollars for this capability. Perhaps someone from Palm will read this thread and realize that by getting those drivers out, with the addition of a few third party products, the Treo's value could skyrocket amongst a growing group of early adopters. The Treo has always been about the early adopters, so you think they'd want to go there.
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeos
    Wait, does everyone think that palmOne adn the carriers are holding this technology back? why? explain this to me, and maybe ill be able to understand you point more and not sound so bull-headed
    Some people say that the carriers don't want wifi because it means they'll use their data network less and the revenue from that business will go down. There are a couple of views of thought on this.

    For one, in the US where Palm has 90% or so of it's marketshare (I'm guessing), a lot of people have unlimited data plans, so I think they'd welcome wifi as they'd still get the money from the unlimited plan, but people would use it less if they were at work or home and had the choice of wifi.

    Another view is that there are places that don't have unlimited plans (Australia appears to be one) and GPRS is very expensive (I think $10 a MB from what I hear). So you'd think those people getting that revenue would try to coerce Palm not to have wifi to maximize this revenue.

    It may be telling that in the US the only carrier (that I know of) that offers a wifi phone is T-mobile which tries to upsell access to it's hotspots. They have a vested interest in wifi. Sprint also has a vested in wifi.

    Overall though no one is really saying much about whether carriers have been pushing Palm one way or another. It's hard to say because the carriers wouldn't be public about it.

    Other theories is that Palm misdesigned the SDIO slot in the Treo 600 and didn't provide it with enough power to do wifi. However, Handspring promised on the box and in the manual of the 600 that the SDIO slot was capable of wifi (if a third party created a card), so Palm doesn't speak of this perhaps in fear of a lawsuit. Who knows is the power is fixed in the 650?

    Now the frustration is that one Palm exec says that wifi interfers with the radio and another says that it does indeed work but the drivers aren't written (see http://www.treocentral.com/content/Stories/479-1.htm and scroll). I think this gets to the original point in thread that for a long time Palm didn't address the issue and now that they do, we get conflicting messages. Even if you don't care a fig about wifi, you'd have to admit that it's disconcerning.

    Thus it puts those of us that really want wifi in a really odd position. We (wifi advocates) have been burned once thinking that we were going to get wifi with the Treo 600, and don't want to make the same mistake with the Treo 650. For me it's getting to point of personal principals of not wanting to get burned twice. Thus I'm trying to think of the Treo 650 as a device that will never have wifi and that puts me on the fence of whether to upgrade or wait until something approaching the Treo does have wifi. It's also annoying as the Treo is worth probably an extra $300 or so dollars to me with wifi. I realize that's insane, but it's true.
  12. Iceman6's Avatar
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    #112  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    It's also annoying as the Treo is worth probably an extra $300 or so dollars to me with wifi.
    I think you will get your wish, but you will have to wait a year.
  13. jlczl's Avatar
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    #113  
    It's amazing to me how many people are actually argueing to NOT have an additional feature (Wi-fi). I wonder how many of them work for Palm.
  14. joele's Avatar
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    #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by jlczl
    It's amazing to me how many people are actually argueing to NOT have an additional feature (Wi-fi). I wonder how many of them work for Palm.
    Shut-up you, Palm know best if we needed it they would have told us! :P (only j/k)
  15. #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by jlczl
    It's amazing to me how many people are actually argueing to NOT have an additional feature (Wi-fi). I wonder how many of them work for Palm.
    Yes working for Palm could be the only reason someone would not care about wifi. Hardly.

    If you want a device with wifi, buy one. They exist. If you dont need wifi buy the treo line, as it doesnt have it. Also please accept the fact that the continuous griping will not make the treo suddenly sprout wifi. It has a radio, it really has no need for wifi as P1 sees it at this point. Some of you should spend this energy on something worth while. Go mentor a troubled kid or something.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  16. #116  
    I gave up on the Treo 650 because it didn't have wifi, and I wasn't willing to risk 'hoping' it would come later only to be disappointed. So last week I bought the PDA2K and so far I'm really pleased with it. I've set up internet sharing on my Mac, so I can get broadband internet access when at home. This is really useful for downloading software, plus it means I can test out all the 'small screen' web sites, and get a decent set of bookmarks for when I'm out and about depending on GPRS or wifi hotspots.

    In case anyone is interested, I really cannot see what all the fuss is about when people say they wouldn't like to use the Pocket PC. There are little things that are done better on Palm, and little things that are done better on the Pocket PC. In general they are fairly similar - although I do find Pocket PC to be more versatile. It can be simple, but there is also the opportunity for having more control over the settings.

    Still waiting for my bluetooth headset to arrive...
  17. #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by bilbo__baggins
    I gave up on the Treo 650 because it didn't have wifi, and I wasn't willing to risk 'hoping' it would come later only to be disappointed. So last week I bought the PDA2K and so far I'm really pleased with it. I've set up internet sharing on my Mac, so I can get broadband internet access when at home. This is really useful for downloading software, plus it means I can test out all the 'small screen' web sites, and get a decent set of bookmarks for when I'm out and about depending on GPRS or wifi hotspots.

    In case anyone is interested, I really cannot see what all the fuss is about when people say they wouldn't like to use the Pocket PC. There are little things that are done better on Palm, and little things that are done better on the Pocket PC. In general they are fairly similar - although I do find Pocket PC to be more versatile. It can be simple, but there is also the opportunity for having more control over the settings.

    Still waiting for my bluetooth headset to arrive...
    Could you give us a more in-depth opinion about your pda2k? Did you have a Treo before for comparison? Is yours CDMA or GSM (EDGE?). I would love to hear more details. It sounds like the pda2k might be a better device for those of us who absolutely need wi-fi in their device.
  18. #118  
    OK, I'll try.

    My last phone was the Treo 600, which I sold on eBay a few weeks ago, with the plan to buy the Treo 650 or the PDA2K. It was the fact that the 650 probably wouldn't work with wifi, and the fact it's likely to not be available in the UK until next year meant that I went for the PDA2K.

    I haven't used it a great deal while out, but I'll try to describe the things I've noticed so far.

    Form factor
    I've noticed that it does seem heavier in my pocket than the Treo, and it comes with a case that has a flap with a magnetic lock. This, and the fact that the device slides out of the side rather than the top, makes it difficult to remove from the case. I'll be looking to buy a better case. I don't find it too big to use as a phone, and the phone app is at least as good as the Treo's. Big easy buttons to press on screen, and easy access to a 'speed dial' screen for your commonly used numbers. The direction pad also can be used to access speed dial or 'history'. History is like pressing the centre button on the Treo, a feature I used a lot as most of the numbers I call are ones I use regularly. The only negative factor is that to get speakerphone you have to hold down the call button for a few seconds which takes too long. The on screen button on the treo is preferable. Looking up contacts is just as good as the treo. The screen makes a difference, so I suspect the 650 will be similarly better. The calendar is also fairly similar to the Treo, I like the fact that all day events are syncronised from iCal (via The Missing Sync) whereas the Palm Desktop/iSync ignored All Day Events. This is a big advantage for me!

    More on the form factor. I've actually found that I've needed to use the keyboard far less often than on the Treo. One negative thing I've found is that I often don't bother with the keyboard because of the hassle of sliding it out! If I'm sending an SMS where I'm typing a lot then it's fine. The keys are a bit more rubbery than the Treo, but as with most differences, it's just a case of getting used to something different rather than one being better than the other. I don't think there is as good use of the direction pad on the PDA2K as there was on the Treo, sometimes it's useful, othertimes I end up using the touchscreen. However, having a bigger screen area means that touching the screen with your finger seems to work fine - hence why I don't need the keyboard as much as I expected. The on screen keyboard is fine if only entering small amounts. When typing long messages, with the keyboard slid out you can hold the device and type in the same way as on the treo (one thing that put me off the SE P910).

    I used to complain about the Treo's HotSync cable. For other devices you could just click on Sync within iSync and it would find the device. With the Treo you had to initiate the sync by pressing the hotsync button - even if you started the sync on the Mac, it would tell you to press the hotsync button. Seemed daft to me. Similarly daft, with the PDA2K even though I have paired with bluetooth, I have to pick up the device and actually connect to the Mac, before I can then choose to sync. Admittedly, when it's in the cradle and connected via USB it does work just by clicking on Sync in isync. Why can't these things be simple? If the T68i paired by bluetooth can be found by iSync why not the PDA2K????

    Battery life is a possible issue. I loved the fact that will low usage, my Treo would last a week between charges. In my first few days of getting the PDA2K, with intensive playing, wifi access etc I've managed to drain the battery each day. With my more typical usage, of occasional phone calls, occasionally checking calendar etc having taken the PDA2K off the charger cradle in the morning, by the evening there has been 89-92% charge (wifi turned off!) I'm assuming that even without wifi, battery life isn't going to be as good as the Treo. I'll be getting a car charger, and I might consider a spare battery. It would be a pain to use wifi, drain the battery, thn need to go out. So far I've tended to only play with wifi in the evenings, drained the battery and then put it onto charge overnight. I think I'll manage, I'll just have to get into the habbit of putting it in the charger every night. I'm not sure I'll trust 'seeing how long it lasts' as I did with my Treo.

    By the way, I have the GSM version, I don't think it has Edge, but in the UK all the carriers are now introducing 3G and apparently only Orange has Edge but I'm not even sure it's usable.

    I haven't really installed extra software yet, other than Adobe reader. PDF files display in colour unlike the Treo, although scrolling through large graphics is still quite slow. I had problems installing it from the Mac, it's supplied as a .exe file for PC's, but fortunately a kind soul posted a CAB file for me to download! I use VersionTracker regularly for Mac software updates, and found the Palm section handy. It's a shame there isn't a Pocket PC section. I still need to find a good source of software.

    The 'Today' screen seemed like an odd concept after having used the Treo, but I have actually found it really useful. It tells you if you have messages, it shows appointments for the next 24hrs, to do's etc.

    Anything else you want to know? Sorry if this is just a random mass of thoughts! I haven't really had it long enough to really get to know it inside out. What I can say is that it doesn't seem any more odd or weird to use than when I first got my Treo. I'm a Mac user, so Palm and Pocket PC/Windows are were equally alien to me before I started using them.

    One last comment - midi ringtones sound VASTLY better on the PDA2K than the Treo. Some of my midi files just sounded odd on the Treo!
  19. #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Yes working for Palm could be the only reason someone would not care about wifi. Hardly.

    If you want a device with wifi, buy one. They exist.
    They don't exist as a phone with the PalmOS and a keyboard. Trust me I've looked.

    Sure I could get another PDA with wifi, but that defeats the entire purpose of Treo's convergence. Then you are looking having a Treo and another PDA that requires carrying two devices, making sure they are charged, and making sure they are in sync.

    How many people have to come up with the solution of "buy another device" when such a comparable device does not exit? I think there are at least 4 or 5 instances of it in this thread.
  20. joele's Avatar
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    #120  
    get ready to be flamed "bilbo__baggins"

    Glad you like the PDA2k though, I switched from the Treo 600 to the Imate PPC (predecessor to the PDA you have) and am very happy with it.... And am following this thread (forum) as I am amazed that wifi is still not even an option on the 650...

    Ohh BTW I hope you get bluetooth working, apparently many headsets are not working too well with the PDA2k, but a patch is coming, check www.clubimate.com, the pains of being an early adopter!

    P.S. for your info, Adobe reader sucks (just like on Palm) Repligo is much faster and smaller. And for your today screen have a look at www.sbsh.net they have a product called pocketbreeze and it is VERY good and VERY cheap, look through the forum for details of their handango store and you can get 30% off, so it will cost around $6.95 best single app on my Imate PPC
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