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  1.    #1  
    I just read Mossbergs column were he compares the 650 to the new Audiovox, Blackberry and Sony Ericsson smart phones. His review suggests that the 650 is still the best smart phone available. He does note the short comings of all the units including the 650.

    His conclusion, while the 650 is still the best, it's heating up.
  2. #2  
    The article will be available for free here in a few hours: http://ptech.wsj.com/ptech.html
  3. #3  
    Something near and dear to TreoCentral readers from the article:

    > ...Plus, in my tests, the preproduction
    > Treo 650 I had crashed several times, and
    > so did the Palm synchronization software,
    > which has always been solid as a rock...

    [also posted to another thread before I read this one - apologies]
  4. #4  
    Given that the 650 had the longest beta test in history, and with PalmOne promising it to be more reliable than the 600, it is quite poor that it crashed on Mossberg. I am afraid we will still have to wait until PalmOne has sorted the quality issues out.
  5. #5  
    Especially since "Mossberg's tests" undoubtedly were comprised of reading and sending email, taking pictures, and MAYBE using a couple (max) third-party apps.

    IOW - not very heavy.

    ======

    Hmmm...I wonder if the TREO 650 crashed while TreoCentral was "trying it out"?

    ======

    Addendum - while addressing some posts down later in this thread I reread the Treocentral Hands-On review on the front page - they answered the "Hmmm" question above with:

    == "...thus some issues or bugs might have already been taken
    == care of in final versions..."

    thus I would assume the TREO 650 did indeed crash on them, too.
    Last edited by SeldomVisitor; 10/28/2004 at 12:09 PM. Reason: added "Hmmm..." sentence and more
  6. #6  
    There are well documented bugs with programs that use large files (e-mail, pictures, web cache, etc) where the new memory is a problem. Hopefully they work that out. I'm confident they will.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    There are well documented bugs with programs that use large files (e-mail, pictures, web cache, etc) where the new memory is a problem. Hopefully they work that out. I'm confident they will.
    i may wait a bit to see how bad it is. crashing on sync? they better have things worked out by release if they want my money
  8. #8  
    "But there are some drawbacks. The internal memory available to the user is still paltry, at 23 megabytes, which is actually a little less than the 600 offered. There's no Wi-Fi wireless networking, and the built-in camera, while improved, is still low resolution at a time when other cellphone cameras are offering higher resolution."

    Good lord..."actually a little less than the T600"...I'm just baffled as to why they couldn't at least double the internal memory. Absolutely baffled...
  9. #9  
    Does my Treo 600 reset sometimes with the TONS of software I'm running? Yes.

    Do I lose any data? No.

    How long does a reset take? About 5 seconds from rest to device is available for use.

    With the incredible convenience that the Treo gives me, these resets have almost no bearing on my opinion of it.

    Again, lets not focus on the negative, especially when the competition has no claim on better stability.
  10. #10  
    If you read the Palm developer documentation for the 650, you find that there is only 10 MB user available RAM to serve as a cache for 23 MB of flash. Also, it seems that instead of implementing a proper virtual memory manager, they have a kludge that swaps in and out complete databases for the active application. I would assume that you will have to wait for PalmOS 6 until the Treo can properly use virtual memory, since this is quite a core OS function.
    It could well be that PalmOne have developed both the Treo 650 and the T5 on the assumption that PalmSource would deliver OS 6 by now, but they had to go back to 5.4 to get a device out of the door.
    But currently, with the choosen architecture on the 650, PalmOne can only fix the problems with large database programs by increasing physical RAM. Otherwise it has to rely on the software developers to adopt their programs to their new architecture.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by silverado
    Does my Treo 600 reset sometimes with the TONS of software I'm running? Yes.
    The question/topic is not if the TREO 650 resets with TONS of software running on it.

    The question is if Mossberg was running TONS of software when HIS test-TREO 650 reset.

    And we KNOW what the answer is.

    Like it or not.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by SeldomVisitor
    The question is if Mossberg was running TONS of software when HIS test-TREO 650 reset.

    And we KNOW what the answer is.

    Like it or not.
    For someone who would not acknowledge the existence of the 650 until it was officially announced (despite the abundant evidence preceding that event), I am surprised by how fast-and-loose you are with this issue to make a bigger deal of Mossberg's comment than it deserves. No one but Mossberg and those working with him knows what he was running on his Treo 650. You certainly do not.

    As to the point of crashing, and as annoying as a crash is, you would not really know anything about that as you don't own a smartphone at all -- let alone a Treo -- making your observation only marginally relevant. Comments regarding the effect of smartphone crashing is more informative and helpful if made made from personal expericene, as opposed to speculation.

    As others have noted, it is an unfortunate reality that no smartphone platform is 100% stable at this point. That said, in my experience, the Palm OS recovers faster and more easily (and this is before the new flash memory) than Symbian or PPC. I am sure the 650 will be an improvement over the 600.
  13. #13  
    > For someone who would not acknowledge the existence of the 650 until it was
    > officially announced (despite the abundant evidence preceding that event)...

    Excuuuuuuuuse me! The TREO 650 does NOT exist yet!

    And that literally is "No kidding".

    > ...I am surprised by how fast-and-loose you are with this issue to
    > make a bigger deal of Mossberg's comment than it deserves.

    You are correct, of course,

    I mean, THE biggest Media Drum Beater for the entire TREO line (and if you want, I'll PROVE that with links to his past articles!) comes out and says "It crashed on me multiple times - they have to fix that before release" means nothing at ALL! Way overblown!

    So you want to be a betatester for a $600+ device, eh?

    Go for it!
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by SeldomVisitor
    Excuuuuuuuuse me! The TREO 650 does NOT exist yet!

    And that literally is "No kidding".
    Yes, it does. I have held one. I have seen dozens of them.

    As to the rest of your post, there is nothing new in your response that was not in your first post -- except your acknowledgement of the accuracy of my critique. I do find it interesting, albeit not surprising, that you apply different (and lesser) standards of proof when it comes to negative information relating to P1 than when positive information relating to P1 is involved.

    An even hand would enhance your credibility.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by MHR
    Yes, it does. I have held one. I have seen dozens of them.
    No, you haven't.

    Holding a preproduction prototype of a nonexistent device is not holding that (nonexistent) device.

    Though PalmOne is probably not rich enough to do so, do you really need to be reminded about all the preproduction prototypes made by other companies that were dropped before they reached production (didn't INTEL ==just== do that with a Pentium?)?

    When the device is generally available (...) THEN it exists.

    Until then, the TREO 650 is an amazing bunch of PRPRPR-$fluff$ $HYPE$ $and$ $a$ $few$ $preproduction$ $prototypes$ $that$ $crash$ $too$ $often$ - $nothing$ $more$.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by SeldomVisitor
    No, you haven't.

    Holding a preproduction prototype of a nonexistent device is not holding that (nonexistent) device.

    Though PalmOne is probably not rich enough to do so, do you really need to be reminded about all the preproduction prototypes made by other companies that were dropped before they reached production (didn't INTEL ==just== do that with a Pentium?)?

    When the device is generally available (...) THEN it exists.

    Until then, the TREO 650 is an amazing bunch of PRPRPR-$fluff$ $HYPE$ $and$ $a$ $few$ $preproduction$ $prototypes$ $that$ $crash$ $too$ $often$ - $nothing$ $more$.
    WRONG.

    The Sprint models at CTIA were not pre-production. I was expressly told so by both P1 and Sprint reps at the show, which is where I saw/interacted with the 650. That amounts to proof in my book.

    Do you have anything other than your supposition underlying your assertion to the contrary? Is this just another in the spate example of the dichotomous treatment of information I mention above? Or are you are now attempting to recast this question of "existence" into one of "general availability" (as the last sentence of you post suggests)?
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by MHR
    WRONG.

    The Sprint models at CTIA were not pre-production. I was expressly told so by both P1 and Sprint reps at the show, which is where I saw/interacted with the 650. That amounts to proof in my book.
    TreoCentral says:

    == "...Both units were pre-production units..."

    thus I will let you personally sort out what you saw and what you were told by the marketing guys from Sprint and PalmOne at CTIA.

    -- http://www.treocentral.com/content/Stories/474-1.htm

    Oh - wait! - I know! TreoCentral was the ONLY entity given preproduction units to test and write about for THE biggest Treo-fan web site!

    Yes, that must be it!

    (and let us not forget what Mossberg said up there near the top of this thread..."preproduction"...yes, he simply doesn't rank, either, eh?)
  18. #18  
    MHR,

    There is no point is getting into a "discussion" with SV/Hengeem. He is a day trader who is only interested in rumors and innuendos, not facts.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by SeldomVisitor
    TreoCentral says:

    == "...Both units were pre-production units..."

    thus I will let you personally sort out what you saw and what you were told by the marketing guys from Sprint and PalmOne at CTIA.

    -- http://www.treocentral.com/content/Stories/474-1.htm

    Oh - wait! - I know! TreoCentral was the ONLY entity given preproduction units to test and write about for THE biggest Treo-fan web site!

    Yes, that must be it!
    I will base my assessment on my personal experience and the face-to-face discussions that I had with numerous Sprint and P1 officials. You can base your assessment on a TC article, that is fine. I do not question what TC was told -- but I know what I was told.

    Again, though, it is ironic that you're not quoting TC in your favor. Another double-standard. You are quite fickle. Enough of this, though. You are pig-headedly going to believe that which you want to believe, which is fine with me. I know what I saw and what I was told.
  20. #20  
    If you truly believe what you saw was a WHOLE BUNCH of POSTproduction TREO 650s, then why are they not available for purchase RIGHT NOW?

    (that is, available as in "walk away with one")
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