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  1.    #1  
    Does anyone know if the new Treo 650 will have be Bluetooth 1.1 or 1.2? The advantages of 1.2 are hugh and most new headsets are coming out 1.2.

    Bluetooth 1.2 introduces Adaptive Frequency Hopping (AFH), which was designed to reduce interference between wireless technologies sharing the 2.4 GHz spectrum. Cordless telephones, microwave ovens, and certain Wireless Local Area Networking (WLAN) technologies, including IEEE 802.11b and IEEE 802.11g, generally share the same wireless frequencies as Bluetooth.

    Bluetooth 1.2 also offers Enhanced Voice Processing -- designed to improve the quality of voice connections, particularly in noisy environments, using error detection methodologies.
    RC
    robert
  2. #2  
    1.1
  3.    #3  
    You are you sure it is 1.1. If so PalmOne has really blown it here. After not including a better camera, and now a sub par bluetooth experience on a specification that has been on the market for 2 years. I am having a very hard time making the case to upgrade to a 650 from the 600.
    robert
  4.    #4  
    Where did you determine that the Palm 650 supported 1.1 and not 1.2?
    robert
  5. #5  
    PalmSource does not introduce BT 1.2 until Cobalt.
  6. #6  
    Although I'm not sure if the decision was based on hardware (could the 650 properly handle the 1.2 chipset) or software issues (Cobalt may be optimized for 1.2 where Garnet is not) or both.

    Whatever the case is, I'm not too thrilled about the 650. It's obviously an intermediate upgrade (just to put something out that should've already been out).
  7. #7  
    What will BT 1.2 give you personally, over 1.1? (I'm guessing nothing)
    There's no place like 127.0.0.1
  8. TxDot's Avatar
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    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Im So Unpopular
    What will BT 1.2 give you personally, over 1.1? (I'm guessing nothing)
    The very first post explains the benefits to us "personally".
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by TxDot
    The very first post explains the benefits to us "personally".
    Overlooked that.

    Nontheless, I'm willing to bet a cost/benefit analysis by P1 realized that it wouldn't be worth the extra development effort and costs.
    There's no place like 127.0.0.1
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Im So Unpopular
    What will BT 1.2 give you personally, over 1.1? (I'm guessing nothing)
    the ability to switch on bt & wifi at the same time?
  11. ls3mach's Avatar
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    #11  
    I believe the reason for BT 1.1 is that the Zire already had the BT stack for Garnet. If they make a 1.2 stack for Garnet and Cobalt it is like doing the same work twice. Eventaully they will abandon Garnet so why upgrade its technology.
  12. #12  
    BT 1.2 includes features such as adaptive frequency hopping for improved reliability, and a stereo headset profile. PalmOne did not support 1.2, because they did not see any devices using 1.2 on the market. In fact, 1.2 has not even been finalized and approved yet! (though many many companies are using the gold master versions in their products) The Broadcom chip is upgradeable to 1.2, but i highly doubt palmOne would release the new software for 1.2..

    It's kind of sad, because I spoke with the guy in charge of Bluetooth at Broadcom, and he claims that stero headsets are going to be the next big thing for Bluetooth, and the 650 won't support it.
    -Michael Ducker
    TreoCentral Staff
  13. #13  
    I bet he's right...then they'll have to re-do all the iPod advertisements to get rid of the white headset cords because you gotta believe the iPod's will support it eventually
    Palm III > HS Visor > Treo 600 > Treo 650 > Treo 750 > Treo Pro > PrePlus GSM

    "95% of all software issues are due to USER ERROR."
  14. #14  
    I can't believe the lack of support (regarding BT in 650) for Mac OS X. This makes me so mad! I was really looking forward to connecting my Powerbook with the 650 (at some point) to answer and make phone calls. Apparently, this is not going to happen (See story on TC homepage).
  15. #15  
    I'm only going to say this once. The Treo 650 CAN support bluetooth 1.2. In addition we CAN fix DUN profile on Sprint. It all comes down to this datasheet on the bluetooth chipset:

    http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/pb/2035-PB01-R.pdf

    Just wait, several groups will be working on cracking this.
  16. #16  
    Thanks shadow!
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmite
    I'm only going to say this once. The Treo 650 CAN support bluetooth 1.2. In addition we CAN fix DUN profile on Sprint. It all comes down to this datasheet on the bluetooth chipset:

    http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/pb/2035-PB01-R.pdf

    Just wait, several groups will be working on cracking this.
    I'm going to disagree with you about 1.2 support, becauseI spent yesterday talking to the people not only designing Bluetooth on the 650, but the man behind the actual broadcom chip.

    First, as showed in the spec sheet - 1.2 is not final yet, the chip can support it in the future, but does not support it now.

    Second, and this is very important, PalmOne said that they will not be making the software for it. I highly doubt that PalmOne will change their mind and provide the upgrade needed to support it. They made a concious decision to not support 1.2. Developing the software on your own, would be as prohibitive as developing bluetooth for the 600 (look how much success that has had.. sadly none)

    I do agree with you on the Sprint DUN issue however, but only because I believe that the PalmOne disabled it, and one simply has to find a way to turn it on.
    -Michael Ducker
    TreoCentral Staff
  18. #18  
    I am only as informed as the broadcom webpage showing that 1.2 can be patched onto the chip. I'd imagine to do so we'll have to steal it from some other device using the same chip farther down the road. I was simply stating that is was possible.

    And yes, the DUN fix shouldn't be too hard. Based on the datasheet they just issued a patch to block the normal ROM stack. We can hopefully just write a small app to read the ROM back into memory instead of the patch.
  19. #19  
    Miradu,

    The newest version of Bluetooth not only has adaptive frequency hopping but it also uses arbitration for improved coexistance with other wireless technologies, has echo cancellation for improved sound quality, enhanced inquiry for more reliable and quicker connections, eSCO channels for enhanced error correction, and even some Scatternet support for multiple, simultaneous Bluetooth connections. Multiple master/slave connections: like say file transfer or syncing via Bluetooth while listening to an internet stream over Bluetooth headphones. Or in the case of the computer as a Bluetooth master & slave; maybe a laptop that connects to the Internet via a Bluetooth access point (say a Motorola phone with Bluetooth) functions as a slave to the access point. Now, to use a Bluetooth mouse with that laptop, it must also function as a master to the mouse – a “Scatternet”.

    This brings me to another point miradu (please note I’m not taking this out on you, my disappointment is with Palm).

    For Palm to say that they did not use Bluetooth 1.2 because there are no devices on the market using it, is ridiculous. It goes beyond just mere compatability. And how can they say Bluetooth 1.2 hasn’t even been finalized. Why do you think Apple waited so long to release their Bluetooth mice and keyboards. It was because they wanted the enhanced security that the finalized version of Bluetooth 1.2 would give them to keep prying eyes from detecting those air-born keystrokes. These have been on the market for about a year. There is even Bluetooth 1.2+ (enhanced) now and soon we will see Bluetooth 2.0. Palm is leaving its customers in the dust.

    Now for my biggest complaint of Palm’s use of Bluetooth, regardless of their chosen Bluetooth version, is their refusal to allow for proximity detection. I would love to walk through my door and have the computer detect my phone’s Bluetooth signal and say… check my email and then open my favorite webpage. Purchase an X10 home unit for $25 and I could even set it up to turn on the room lights before walking in the door. All with Bluetooth’s proximity detection and software called the Salling Clicker. It has been said that good Bluetooth devices along with the Mac can be used for everything from “controlling GarageBand to opening garage doors. All Bluetooth phone manufacturers use this capability except for Palm. Why not Palm?

    Wait, maybe this is my biggest complaint: Palm will not let Macs use Bluetooth connectivity to connect to the Treo to Fax from Mac OS X. This is becoming a necessity; primarily because I do not have a land line. Can't afford it with my Treo voice and data services and cable internet at home.

    There is so much that could be done with a Bluetooth Treo and a Mac, even as Palm has incorporated it, that it makes my head spin because it really, honestly could propel us 10-12 years into the future – but they cut it off at its knees.
  20. #20  
    By the way; miradu, have you gotten a chance to find out why the Palm OS doesn't provide "listening" for bluetooth connections like every other manufacturer does. Palm OS handhelds must connect from the palm side. No proximity detection or event triggering or any of that cool Salling Clicker stuff.
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