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  1.    #1  
    You can argue over the merits of whether a better camera is a necessity, or lack of WiFi is a deal buster, but there is one mistake for which PalmOne gets no slack:

    32 MB MEMORY!

    This is the same thing as releasing a Pentium computer with 128 MB ram!

    Is this what you get when they're cleaning out the old Palm Pilot inventory - what are they doing, gluing together 4 old Visor 8 MB chips. There is no excuse for shaving memory on such a "high end" device. I'll probably upgrade for the screen and bluetooth, but a pox on the house of Palm for this unforgivable cheap-out!
    Last edited by dstrauss; 10/26/2004 at 07:32 AM. Reason: Spelling
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    You can argue over the merits of whether a better camera is a necessity, or lack of WiFi is a deal buster, but there is one mistake for which PalmOne gets no slack:

    32 MB MEMORY!

    This is the same thing as releasing a Pentium computer with 128 MB ram!

    Is this what you get when they're cleaning out the old Palm Pilot inventory - what are they doing, gluing together 4 old Visor 8 MB chips. There is no excuse for shaving memory on such a "high end" device. I'll probably upgrade for the screen and bluetooth, but a pox on the house of Palm for this unforgivable cheap-out!

    K...computer missing memory is one thing, however, this is not a computer, but rather a CELL PHONE!!! How much more memory could it possibly need??? We are talking about MBs here...its not like we are saving a movie database on our cell phones. I think Palmone was smart to keep at it 32mbs. This way you have the option of buying whatever you needed. There are 1gbs out there for 75 bucks...If you need more than that, get a LAPTOP!!!
  3. #3  
    it is only a blunder if you need more memory. I dont.

    I use snapper to check 7 email accounts.
    I use doc to go and have documents i need at the ready. Notr synced to the sd card.
    I use jpluck (doc are sync to the sd card).
    I have several games, more than several.
    I have 1-2 e-books.
    I am only using a little over 50% of a available memory.

    I can understand where someone might need more memory, but I would guess that would be a small part of the treo 600 population.
    Felipe
    On the road to 5,000 posts
    Life is what happens between Firmware releases.
  4. #4  
    I don't see the memory as a big deal myself. I'm looking at my 600 right now. I have the following installed - Docs To Go Version 7 Premium along with a number of Word and Excel documents, 2Phone, pTunes, Laridian NIV Study Bible, Laridian Daily Reader, Chatter, iSilo, Personal Ancestry File, several very large eBooks and a number of small files for reading with iSilo and still have 13.4M free. I also have a 1GB SD that has about 750MB of mp3 files leaving another 250MB free. This is plenty of memory for me. Some folks must be running some really large programs to fill up the 600's memory. Now some folks may argue that other PDA's have alot more memory; but IMO I like the relative reasonable price of the 650 ($599).
  5. #5  
    It would have been nice to get the USB stick off my key chain. The idea is to reduce how much crap you carry around. Sure I could get the 650 and then get more mem, but I still think it should have come with at least 64. I regulary have 50 to 100 megs of paperwork that I carry back and forth between work and home. Using USB is fine, but how much betterto just sync my phone at each location?
  6. #6  
    Can a few of you guys who are griping about the memory tell us how it is that you use up your memory. In my experience, the things that fill up memory (like MP3s, movies, ebooks, or email in boxes) can all be moved to SD card without much grief. What IS the problem? What is the killer app that requires so much memory and can't use SD?
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by guinnessdraught
    Can a few of you guys who are griping about the memory tell us how it is that you use up your memory.
    I'm getting the feeling it's almost more a philosophical thing rather than a real need. Folks see other Palm and PPC devices with lots more memory and feel the new 650 should have as much, whether or not it's really needed or not. I'm sure there are some folks that have killer apps that fill up all the memory, but I think for your average user the 32MB is plenty.
  8. #8  
    I installed AI Pro to the card- Inbox to Go and Snapper don't recognize it as a program for opening images. So I had to install it in memory

    I installed Express. It won't let you do certain types of phone number lookups and mapping unless you install part of it to the card. So I had to install it in memory

    I'm pretty sure my Snapper holds the attachments and the last few days worth of mail in local memory too. It takes up a few megs on its own usually.

    Oh ya, and I may be shelling out $500 for a new device. So I'd EXPECT to have a little more internal memory. When's the last time you 'upgraded' to a new device with the same memory as the last?

    So those are just a few examples of how I plan to use it. Don't forget too, that it looks like the 650 is like the 600 in that the video recorder records to INTERNAL memory. So if you ever want to take a quick video- that's what its gonna be- quick. Because my 13MB of free memory just won't hold a lot of video either. Granted, I'm not going to be making feature films with it. But the next time your friends are drunk and you want to save the scene for posterity, its nice to know you have your Treo to help you out!
  9. #9  
    I think that you guys are overlooking the fact that this is not really 32 MB of RAM, it is Flash. The bennifit is you can let the battery die for days, months, and everything will be there when you get it charged. The problem is that it is more expensive then RAM. The 32 MBytes, while the same capacity as the Treo 600, is a vast improvement for cases where the battery dies. I am always concious or what the battery is at for fear of losing data and having to hotsync to get it back, the 650 you can let it die on the road, charge it on the road and have all of data without a hotsync is a major improvement.

    More Flash would be nice, but this is still a major improvement and should not be considered a non-improvement.
  10.    #10  
    You are all wrong (I know, I know - "The whole world is crazy; I'm the only sane one."). We are talking about "operating" memory here. The Palm OS is just like the good old days of DOS - the operating memory is the workspace, and the 1 gig card in my SD slot is effectively storage. Yes, I understand the general concepts of the VFS system, and using programs to emulate ram in the SD card, but it's still a kludge. Some programs, like DateBk5, must be in the internal RAM. In addition, the system has to swap programs in and out of this base RAM from storage RAM.

    With the cost of memory today, saying 32 MB is enough, or that you're "glad" they limited it to 32 MB of RAM sounds as intelligent as Gate's mandate that "No one will ever need more than 640k of RAM." for the original DOS.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  11. #11  
    I've been using BackupMan since about a month after I got my Treo. It crashes so often that its a necessity. Its saved my **** on a few marked occasions. The flash ram thing isn't very appealing to me. I already trust that it'll try to crash and leave me stranded as it has in the past.

    I find the idea of the flash backup being marketed as a feature about as appealing as Microsoft's SP2 being feature filled. Both exist as band-aids for unresolved system problems.
  12. #12  
    While the need for more memory is debatable, I wonder how the new memory architecture will affect performance. The 650 has 32 MB flash, 23 of those are available, and 32 MB SDRAM, of which 10 MB serve as a flash cache, and 6 are for the dynamic heap, with 16 reserved for the OS/Builtin Apps. Now if you want to use any application, its prc and pdb files must all be copied to ram, if not already there. This will certainly affect performance if you are using lots of programs at the same time (after all, available RAM went down from 24 to 10 MB), and I am curious as to how this affects applications that require to reside in ram for proper operation: Will they break, or will the new architecture now allow them to reside on an SD card with any further problems?
  13. #13  
    You people who say 32 megs are enough (23-24 megs usuable) are part of the problem, since Palm seems to design for the lowest possibe denominator. The fact that you don't think you need more memory is nothing to brag about.
    Last edited by IamVincent; 10/26/2004 at 10:48 AM.
    Treo 700p, 650p 600p, 300p, IIIc, III, Vx, USR Palm Pilot, Newton Message Pad 130, Newton Message Pad 120, (Was there a MP 100?), HP Calculator, Pencil and Paper, Chisel and Rock ....
  14. #14  
    I assume everyone who thinks 32 mb is enough has never used a street navigaton program such as Mapopolis. These programs are incredibly popular and will become the "killer app" that everyone wants, especially now that bluetooth allows use of a wireless GPS. In order to use Mapopolis, you must load the maps into the ram. Los Angeles county is 13mb large and I believe Orange County is 6mb. Thus, 32 mb of ram will limit my ability to to use Mapopolis without suffering memory errors every five minutes.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lefty4
    I assume everyone who thinks 32 mb is enough has never used a street navigaton program such as Mapopolis. These programs are incredibly popular and will become the "killer app" that everyone wants, especially now that bluetooth allows use of a wireless GPS. In order to use Mapopolis, you must load the maps into the ram. Los Angeles county is 13mb large and I believe Orange County is 6mb. Thus, 32 mb of ram will limit my ability to to use Mapopolis without suffering memory errors every five minutes.
    Not totally true. With the latest betas of Mapopolis, you can store all your maps on the SD card and the prog will dynamically copy the maps it needs as you travel your route. Of course , it still needs ram to load the current map you are using or driving through, so more ram is always better.
    But there are a lot more programs that require db's loaded in ram like the medical lookup and reference apps, which can be huge.

    I wish they would've added more ram..... I will wait till the next Treo is released or till another Palmsource licensee releases something with more ram.
  16. Templar's Avatar
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    #16  
    To me it is a double edged sword. True with SD prices falling and most programs usable from the sd card it is not a problem. I have 50 to 60 megs of all sorts of programs on my sd. I then use LauncherX to make it seamless in launching. Works great. I am sure that LauncherX will directly support the 650 or update to support it. Now here is the problem: What happens when (IF??) a sd wifi card is realeased? Unless it is a dual memory wifi (with at least 512 MB) I have a problem. I have to make a decision what programs stay in memory and which ones I don't need. This all tells me that wifi was never really on the plate or considered in the design.
    greg
  17. #17  
    Heres another thing. I currently have 3 different SD cards each with different types of programs on them. One has all of my MP3s for PocketTunes along with MMplayer, etc. Another has Isilo and some ebooks on it. My main memory is as filled up as it can be without making the Treo crash. The problem comes along when I want to listen to music as I'm reading. Even if you don't want to use programs that are on separate cards at the same time though, it is very inconvenient to need to switch cards to go to a program. I find myself using my SD backup program very infrequently lately because its just not the card that happens to be in the slot.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lefty4
    I assume everyone who thinks 32 mb is enough has never used a street navigaton program such as Mapopolis. These programs are incredibly popular and will become the "killer app" that everyone wants, especially now that bluetooth allows use of a wireless GPS. In order to use Mapopolis, you must load the maps into the ram. Los Angeles county is 13mb large and I believe Orange County is 6mb. Thus, 32 mb of ram will limit my ability to to use Mapopolis without suffering memory errors every five minutes.
    That is the ONLY app I use for which I can see a legitimate gripe about the RAM size. I believe the PocketPC version of Mapopolis allows for quick access to maps on the SD card. If this is doable (without a noticeable lag) on future versions of Mapopolis, the RAM size is practically a non-issue for me.
  19. jglev's Avatar
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    #19  
    Jumping on soapbox now.

    What I am amazed about is how many people are rationalizing that 32mb of RAM is good! They are actually making up excuses to justify Palm1's stupidity. I am a physician, and like many physicians, we carry around large databases. Programs like ePocrates and others take up multiple megabytes, and although they can run from an SD card, they can't update themselves during a hot sync which severely limits it's usefulness (drug facts and other medical databases are constituently being updated and while I don't need to have it update at every hot sync, they still need to do so at least once a week). Like I said, these medical databases are huge. I am constantly running into memory issues. I cannot in good conscience spend $500 to upgrade a device that has the same memory limitations, nor can I recommend my physician friends to upgrade theirs or even buy one if they are considering a smartphone. And since I am (like many of you) the local Tech Guru, people come to me and ask before they buy. So, not only is Palm1 losing my upgrade dollars (and I would have upgraded had it not been for the memory issues), they are losing my recommendations as well (mine and many others on this board who are angry and who think the way I do). I don't buy the cost argument to adding memory. The Sprint PPC6601 is only $30 more than the Treo 650 and has 128mb among other things. Not giving the 650 32mb extra RAM (which would either have cost a penny or they could have dumped the non-volatile RAM to save money) was very foolish and shortsighted. So please, no more excuses as to why 32mb is great and there is no need for 64mb. If you don't need extra RAM, then fine, you could have just pretended that it was there and not use it and brag to your friends how much free space you had left over (and I am sure, it you had more RAM, you would probably fine a way to use it), but for people like me, I can't understand why Palm1 would do this. I can live without WiFi, I can live without an upgraded camera, I don't care about non-volatile RAM (that is why I back-up to my SD card nightly), but I can't live without more free memory nor will I eat the sh_t that Palm1 feeds me and say "thank you. You are so kind. May I have some more?" By having what seems like many jump over to the PPC camp, they will be losing us brand loyalist and it is always difficult to get people back to your camp once they jump ship. Who knows, maybe I will try the iMate/PPC6000 and stay there, or hate it and come back to Palm1 when they release the Treo 700 (assuming that Palm1 still exists by then).

    Sorry for the rant. I am just very disapointed and frustrated seeing how Palm1 can continue to squander opportunity.

    Jumping off soapbox now. Flame resistant suit now on.
    Jeff
  20. #20  
    I just decided to load Avant Go again (hadn't used it for a few years). It can't load to SD either. When I tried, it said it couldn't find the server. It had two associated files with it. I moved them to RAM. Still no.

    There's a couple of more megs gone, I guess...
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