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  1. pdadoc's Avatar
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    #21  
    jglev-

    As another physician using the treo, I totally agree. What I can't quite understand is that Palmone is making a strong effort to market this to the medical community (eg, thru epocrates webinars). I can only guess that the reality is that there is not enough "demand" in the marketplace, or they would be doing it. I can't imagine that memory won't get better soon (at least I hope so!), but until then, I think we're just stuck. I'm constantly having to manage memory, which is a real pain. And like others, I'm very familiar with options (eg, zLauncher) to keep most of the apps and data on the cards. But there is just too much that *has* to be in RAM. I would probably have bought Epocrates essentials, rather than just the RxPro, but for the memory demands....
  2. pmdied's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by jasondeno
    I just decided to load Avant Go again (hadn't used it for a few years). It can't load to SD either. When I tried, it said it couldn't find the server. It had two associated files with it. I moved them to RAM. Still no.

    There's a couple of more megs gone, I guess...
    The latest AvantGo will work with the SD card: I've been using it for the last few months.
    To address the internal user ram issue: unless there is a way to get ALL apps to run from the card, including those that are linked to an alarm(Snapper, Agendus, ptunes/mp3ringer, or function thru other apps:Mapopolis,Docs to Go,reqwireless,etc.), there eventually will be a memory problem.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by jglev
    Jumping on soapbox now.

    What I am amazed about is how many people are rationalizing that 32mb of RAM is good! They are actually making up excuses to justify Palm1's stupidity.
    Jumping off soapbox now. Flame resistant suit now on.
    Well, let's see. There actually is 64MB of memory -- it just happens to be 32MB flash and 32MB RAM to get around some limitations with Palm OS applications not liking flash. Okay, so that's a small nitpick.

    Since you're a physician (and I'm about to marry one), I won't give you a hard time about designing products requires some thinking about the cost and other tradeoffs.

    The question for everyone complaining about 32MB is that if it costs, maybe two hundred more, made the battery life one hour less and/or altered the form factor, would you still buy it?

    As my EE prof use to say, people want a gigaflop in a shoebox and have it cost ten bucks, but what people want and reality aren't always the same thing.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy
    As my EE prof use to say, people want a gigaflop in a shoebox and have it cost ten bucks, but what people want and reality aren't always the same thing.
    Funny that my EE professor used to say almost the same thing.....we all want to drive a Porsche, but are only willing to pay Chevy price.
  5. #25  
    The other thing to keep in mind is that you don't really get to use all the memory they say you have. I've left 2 to 4 megs free on my Palm and tried to run a program only to have the Treo say that there isn't enough free space.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy
    The question for everyone complaining about 32MB is that if it costs, maybe two hundred more, made the battery life one hour less and/or altered the form factor, would you still buy it?
    That would be good point if 64mb or even 128mb would actually add two hundred more to the end user price and reduce battery life one hour less but I really doubt it would. Memory is cheap and the additional memory shouldn't have that much of an appreciable effect on the battery. (If I'm wrong about this my apologies, and please explain.) 64 or 128 would merely bring the Treo650 in line with what similiar Symbian and PocketPC devices offer.

    And even if your Treo isn't full now, what about room to grow. (How often can I convince my wife I need a new phone. If I buy this it's got to service my needs for a while. With the T5 having 256mb Palm OS developers are likely to get lazy about memory requirements in the future.)
    Oh, so they have internet on computers now!
    --Treo 650 unlocked/unbranded with Rogers
  7. #27  
    I never use up all the ink in a Bic pen, but it's good to know it's there. Same for the pages in a Mead notebook.
  8. #28  
    As a computer geek, rather than a physician, I'm confused by this thread. Why are you not complaining to the software designers for not writing their software so that it can use the SD card? Palm devices have limited main memory but plenty of available external memory via the SD slot; why wasn't the software written with this in mind?

    Since we're all about the analogies... imagine buying for your home computer some software that comes with 4 GB of data. You'd expect that database to live on your hard drive, right? If the software was written in such a way that it couldn't see the hard drive and you had to go out and buy a system with 4GB of memory, would you complain to Dell for not building the system big enough to begin with? Or to the software company for not recognizing that databases should live on hard drives, not system memory?
  9. #29  
    Sorry to differ, but in my opinion nobody is looking at this the right way. The system RAM is equivalent to the hard drive of a Palm. In other words, its the main system storage and should hold all your programs. I think SD cards are more equivalent to using discs. You have to change them often for different programs, etc etc.

    I know of many people (including myself) that will buy games, but then download a NoCD crack to run them off the hard drive only, because they don't want to change discs. Well, I feel the same about my Treo. I don't want to have 20 different programs on different SD cards. My phone should be capable of storing all the programs I want. You wouldn't buy a computer with a 1 gig hard drive these days and store everything on CDs, so why should our Treos have crippled system memory and force us to store everything on SD cards?
  10. #30  
    I guess it all comes back down to functionality. As the creator of the device AND the OS, they fell short. I think using SD is a stop-gap for not building a machine with enough memory in it. I think if Dell's only option was to bring out one new computer per year and that the new computer had the exact same hard drive size as last year's computer, then ya, I'd be complaining to Dell like I am with Palm now.

    Oddly the T5 and the Pda2k don't seem to suffer from this problem. One is a Palm and the other is a smartphone at the same price point. Which makes it difficult to argue pricing or ability.
  11. #31  
    My take on the memory... When the Treo 650 was in Development, over a year ago memory prices were no where near as cheap as they are now. Don't forget how long it takes for a device to get to market. Also, don't forget that the Treo 650 was probably initially designed by handspring and PalmOne took over the design when they bought Handspring. Handspring didn't have the budget to add extra memory; they needed the large profit margin. Also, don't forget that the T5 was not expected to have as much memory as it did. That was added on later. Perhaps because this (treo 650) is a converged device adding the extra memory would have increased the cost to the point that marketing at Palm said no way! People won't spend that much money on a converged device.
    PalmOne is not in the market to make a device for .5% of the market place. They want a much larger share and the high the price of the device, the lower the market share. Most competing devices for PalmOne are in the $300 dollar Symbian or even the MS Smartphone world. There are major benefits to the Treo 650 over these devices, however how many people are willing to pay the extra $300 for the small advantage you get over a Symbian device? It's all marketing! I would bet the engineers and designers at PalmOne fought to get more memory in the device but when the decision was made the cost increase would have taken the device further into the Elite phone market where normal geeks would never buy it. Think the Motorola MPX. To much money and horsepower. We all love the design... well a lot of us. The cost is prohibitive for 99% of us though. If it was priced the same as a Treo 650 do you think the Treo 650 would even stand a chance?

    Just my 2 cents from experience in product development for 2 world leader technology companies!
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy
    Well, let's see. There actually is 64MB of memory -- it just happens to be 32MB flash and 32MB RAM to get around some limitations with Palm OS applications not liking flash.
    I'm not an expert on these matters so please bear with me here.

    Are you saying that the Treo 650 has 32 MB FlashROM in addition to the 32 MB RAM? Can this 32 MB Flash be used like the FlashROM I used with products like Jackflash, TRG Flashpro?

    If so, that would mean that it would allow me to run most of the programs I needed to run in RAM. Datebk5 ran fine in FlashROM "back in the day" and I'd hope 2day!, 4cast, Soundrec, Audible, BackupBuddy VFS, alarm programs (Bigclock, Bob's Alarms), IM programs (Verichat, Causerie), Launchers (zLauncher, LauncherX), email programs (Snapper, Chatter), TAKEphONE, VoiceLauncher and other big program files will also work in Flash. That isn't so bad, actually. The objective would be to press the developers to modify their code, as necessary.

    I'm not minimizing the need for a device with more RAM because I still feel that new devices should come with double the RAM of its predecessor. However, if the Treo 650 is the Treo 600 with an additional 32 MB FlashROM and that Flash works as described above, I'm feeling a little better about it.
  13.    #33  
    Sorry - the 32 mb flash rom is a mirror for the 32 mb of ram - that's how they get around "losing" data when powers fails. I guess you could hack aound the dual use, but don't change the battery.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  14. #34  
    OK. I would definitely want to hack around it. I'd rather segment that 32 MB flash rom to mirror critical PIM data and Saved Preferences and then rely on a card backup program if there was a power loss. They should have had 64 or more MB in flash ROM if to handle mirroring plus additional data.

    P1 obviously did not intend for existing Treo 600 users to upgrade to this product.
  15. #35  
    Palm1 should have addressed this memory issue permanently by designing the 650 to have the ram be upgradable. Either when you place the order or by designing a new way of adding ram by the user. They can then license that technology to others to make the same ram memory. They can also modify the OS to access the slower SD card directly and treat it as internal ram without using third party tools. This might be diffucult to do but if they want to continue to succeed they need to lead by Innovating.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by jasondeno
    I just decided to load Avant Go again (hadn't used it for a few years). It can't load to SD either. When I tried, it said it couldn't find the server. It had two associated files with it. I moved them to RAM. Still no.

    There's a couple of more megs gone, I guess...
    I used Zlauncher to move Avantgo and Avantgo Connect to SD and I am able to sync via GPRS.
  17. #37  
    It is amazing to see how quickly people change their opinions. Last week all we read about was how the 650 better have more memory and a better camera or I'm jumping ship! Now, everyone is rationalizing the lack of memory and crappy camera, some even saying crap like this: "I think Palmone was smart to keep at it 32mbs. This way you have the option of buying whatever you needed." That's just about the dumbest thing I ever heard. I guess if it came with 128mb that guy would be angry that there was too much memory!

    I know you all love your little Palm devices, but one day you will come to the realization that Palm is being beaten to death by PPC. In the coming year or two it will just get worse. By the time Palm has 128mb of RAM and WiFi, PPCs will replace your laptop. It takes a big man to admit when he is defeated - go ahead, come on over to PPC, it's okay... read this comparison...
    No, my avatar is NOT a picture of me! If you don't recognize her then you are not nerdy enough to be in here.

    "I didn't think it was possible, but this actually sucks and blows."
    - Bart Simpson
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by guinnessdraught
    Can a few of you guys who are griping about the memory tell us how it is that you use up your memory. In my experience, the things that fill up memory (like MP3s, movies, ebooks, or email in boxes) can all be moved to SD card without much grief. What IS the problem? What is the killer app that requires so much memory and can't use SD?
    Allow me to give an explanation. Have you ever used the Treo 600 freeware movie recorder app? Have you noticed it's limited in recording length based on the amount of free memory available? Did you stop to think that the built in movie recorder on the 650 might be the same? (I'd venture a 75% chance). Thus without more memory certain real-time data recording apps are not possible. This is the only real concern. A SD card can hold most everything that gets swapped in and out of memory.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean18
    I know you all love your little Palm devices, but one day you will come to the realization that Palm is being beaten to death by PPC. In the coming year or two it will just get worse. By the time Palm has 128mb of RAM and WiFi, PPCs will replace your laptop. It takes a big man to admit when he is defeated - go ahead, come on over to PPC, it's okay... read this comparison...
    Only dweebs care what the OS on their phone or the fact that an OS can "win."

    Right now, nothing that runs PPC can match the combination of size, functionality and battery life that a Treo 6xx has right now. Who knows -- the next Treo may also be PPC.

    But who cares? I just want the right device. OS be damned.
  20. #40  
    And check out the thread somewhere below, where you have all of the Microsoft device types moaning about how they are losing ground to palm.

    Indeed the most recent report is that plam has passed MS OS in smartphones.
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