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  1.    #1  
    I now understand why Palm was so forceful about keeping the specs secret. They are so disapointing that they wanted the least amount of time for people to compare devices.

    For me the real issues are:

    The lack of memory -
    Lack of wi-fi
    camera just blows

    I must admit I really like the form factor, but when comparing specs with the PDK2a, the 650 just gets blown away.

    Of course, I am not willing to buy either one yet (but its not like I could anyway) , but I want to get my hands on the PDK2a and see what the form factor is like. I believe that Palm really blew it. If they had come out with a device that even seemed competitive, it would have been a no brainer decision, but now I want to feel and touch the competition.

    Just generally disapointed, after the wait, the rumors and the hype, to get this.

    Just my 2 cents, for what it is worth
  2. wahili's Avatar
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    #2  
    good point. other's are open and brag about their specs.
  3. alee's Avatar
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    #3  
    You've obviously never studied marketing. Leaking specs, regardless of whether they're excellent or horrible, is a bad idea in a competitive market space. Early specs lead to premature speculation, and can affect the sale of current devices on the market. Early specs also drive consumer expectation -- if you can't meet delivery dates or the early specs, your customers will always call you on it. And of course, if your competitors know what you're doing, they have a competitive advantage as well.

    Leaked specs are almost always by accident. Non-disclosure agreements exist to make sure things don't get out of hand.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by Albert C. Lee
    You've obviously never studied marketing. Leaking specs, regardless of whether they're excellent or horrible, is a bad idea in a competitive market space. Early specs lead to premature speculation, and can affect the sale of current devices on the market. Early specs also drive consumer expectation -- if you can't meet delivery dates or the early specs, your customers will always call you on it. And of course, if your competitors know what you're doing, they have a competitive advantage as well.

    Leaked specs are almost always by accident. Non-disclosure agreements exist to make sure things don't get out of hand.
    Not heard of viral marketing then?
    A lot of so called leaks are deliberate efforts by companies to get attention for their unreleased product or divert attention from a competitors.
    If you have a decent/competitive product then there are lots of ways that releasing advanced information can help, from generating press coverage to mobilising you installed base to name just two.
  5.    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Albert C. Lee
    You've obviously never studied marketing. Leaking specs, regardless of whether they're excellent or horrible, is a bad idea in a competitive market space. Early specs lead to premature speculation, and can affect the sale of current devices on the market. Early specs also drive consumer expectation -- if you can't meet delivery dates or the early specs, your customers will always call you on it. And of course, if your competitors know what you're doing, they have a competitive advantage as well.

    Leaked specs are almost always by accident. Non-disclosure agreements exist to make sure things don't get out of hand.

    And the way this was done was better??
  6. alee's Avatar
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    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Not heard of viral marketing then?
    Viral marketing exists for very specific purposes, but not to release the specs of a hardware product. Viral marketing is typically used for a product to self-promote, such as webmail where each email comes with a signature that self-promotes the product it came from. Or GMail, where friends on the inside invite those on the outside.

    There was no viral marketing on the Treo 650.
    A lot of so called leaks are deliberate efforts by companies to get attention for their unreleased product or divert attention from a competitors.
    These do exist, but are extremely controlled. A proper example is Sprint reps carrying Treo 650s... you want people to know the 650 is coming, and people have seen it. You don't want people to evaluate it based on the hardware/software in a pre-production unit. You want to introduce visibility and create buzz, but you don't want people to know what they're getting yet.

    Final specs for products are corporate secrets... leaking them is dangerous, and companies in competitive spaces do not leak an entire spec sheet intentionally, unless they really want to go out of business.
  7. alee's Avatar
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    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by jimHy
    And the way this was done was better??
    Yes.

    To take another competitive space, let's take a look at Nikon and Canon, and how premature specs affect the market.

    Nikon recently announced the Nikon D2x. Spectacular specs really. But they rushed to get the product release timed with PMA in September 2004. One problem, the product isn't ready. Software is still heavily in beta, and unlike other camera releases, this one did not come with examples of how well the camera could do. Release date, January 2005.

    Canon, on the other hand, made a product release in the same time period. Their cameras were ready to ship and be in consumer hands within a week. Samples were made available, and reviewers had the hardware at launch.

    The difference? Canon did not release their specs prematurely. They had a smooth product launch, and were able to cash in on the consumer excitement, by being able to put the product in the hand of the consumer immediately. Nikon, while having released a great spec sheet, really has nothing to offer the customer. They released their product info 4 months too early... people are excited that it's coming but 4 months is a long time to stay excited about a product.

    What am I driving at? You time specs release and product releases very close to each other. Consumers are impatient, and in a hot market, whether it be cell phones, digital cameras or cars, you don't want the public to know too soon, and you don't want the competitors to have the early jump.
  8.    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Albert C. Lee
    Yes.

    To take another competitive space, let's take a look at Nikon and Canon, and how premature specs affect the market.

    Nikon recently announced the Nikon D2x. Spectacular specs really. But they rushed to get the product release timed with PMA in September 2004. One problem, the product isn't ready. Software is still heavily in beta, and unlike other camera releases, this one did not come with examples of how well the camera could do. Release date, January 2005.

    Canon, on the other hand, made a product release in the same time period. Their cameras were ready to ship and be in consumer hands within a week. Samples were made available, and reviewers had the hardware at launch.

    The difference? Canon did not release their specs prematurely. They had a smooth product launch, and were able to cash in on the consumer excitement, by being able to put the product in the hand of the consumer immediately. Nikon, while having released a great spec sheet, really has nothing to offer the customer. They released their product info 4 months too early... people are excited that it's coming but 4 months is a long time to stay excited about a product.

    What am I driving at? You time specs release and product releases very close to each other. Consumers are impatient, and in a hot market, whether it be cell phones, digital cameras or cars, you don't want the public to know too soon, and you don't want the competitors to have the early jump.

    I agree your camera example makes sense. I also believe that the complete silence from Palm created an enviorment that rumors of specs exceeded the final product, which creates disapointment. On the other hand look at the I-mate PDA2k which is not available yet as well, but all the specs have been released, and that (at least for me) has created a situation that I will not buy Palm's product now until I have a chance to check out the competitions product since I know the specs of both.
  9. alee's Avatar
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    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by jimHy
    I agree your camera example makes sense. I also believe that the complete silence from Palm created an enviorment that rumors of specs exceeded the final product, which creates disapointment. On the other hand look at the I-mate PDA2k which is not available yet as well, but all the specs have been released, and that (at least for me) has created a situation that I will not buy Palm's product now until I have a chance to check out the competitions product since I know the specs of both.
    I-mate does have one major obstacle now though:
    Their potential customers have adopted the specs. Some people are holding out for the product. Any deviation from those specs and people will be massively disappointed.

    If done right, they've drawn attention away from PalmOne and upon release will cash in. If done improperly, people will be angry to have waited so long for something disappointing.

    PalmOne could have done much better with the 650 release. Timing it to coincide with the CTIA release sounds vaguely like the Nikon example... I hope PalmOne does not wait too long before releasing the 650 en masse, or people will get bored and impatient and look to other brands.
  10.    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Albert C. Lee
    I-mate does have one major obstacle now though:
    Their potential customers have adopted the specs. Some people are holding out for the product. Any deviation from those specs and people will be massively disappointed.

    If done right, they've drawn attention away from PalmOne and upon release will cash in. If done improperly, people will be angry to have waited so long for something disappointing.

    PalmOne could have done much better with the 650 release. Timing it to coincide with the CTIA release sounds vaguely like the Nikon example... I hope PalmOne does not wait too long before releasing the 650 en masse, or people will get bored and impatient and look to other brands.

    Albert,

    the PDA2k is already built. The specs are as released. You can buy one on e-bay today. Just not in the US yet
  11. alee's Avatar
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    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by jimHy
    Albert,

    the PDA2k is already built. The specs are as released. You can buy one on e-bay today. Just not in the US yet
    I did not know that... I stand corrected.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Albert C. Lee
    You've obviously never studied marketing. Leaking specs, regardless of whether they're excellent or horrible, is a bad idea in a competitive market space. Early specs lead to premature speculation, and can affect the sale of current devices on the market. Early specs also drive consumer expectation -- if you can't meet delivery dates or the early specs, your customers will always call you on it. And of course, if your competitors know what you're doing, they have a competitive advantage as well.

    Leaked specs are almost always by accident. Non-disclosure agreements exist to make sure things don't get out of hand.
    Don't you think that, if you have a great product, you *want* to leak out the specs? That keeps people from buying a competitor's product while you're working on getting yours out.

    Look at all the excitement pd2k is generating here--on a *Treo* board. People have been saying that they won't upgrade to a Treo because they're waiting for the pd2k to come out.
  13. alee's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTreo
    Don't you think that, if you have a great product, you *want* to leak out the specs? That keeps people from buying a competitor's product while you're working on getting yours out
    I would never want to leak out all my specs while the product was still in testing. Parts shortages, last minute spec changes, etc. are items outside of my control. The last thing I want is to disappoint the public.

    Sure, let them know something is coming... by all means that is an excellent strategy. A product teaser I think is a good way to generate buzz and a lot of vendors do ad teasers, and offer the corporate market some live demos. But I would still be extremely cautious about releasing full specs. That's just me though... I'm very conservative about these things. Hardware relies on too many external dependencies... if one of your component manufacturers back out, and you have to go with your Plan B, it's best your customers never know what's released was Plan B.
  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Albert C. Lee
    I would never want to leak out all my specs while the product was still in testing. Parts shortages, last minute spec changes, etc. are items outside of my control. The last thing I want is to disappoint the public.

    Sure, let them know something is coming... by all means that is an excellent strategy. A product teaser I think is a good way to generate buzz and a lot of vendors do ad teasers, and offer the corporate market some live demos. But I would still be extremely cautious about releasing full specs. That's just me though... I'm very conservative about these things. Hardware relies on too many external dependencies... if one of your component manufacturers back out, and you have to go with your Plan B, it's best your customers never know what's released was Plan B.

    Like the 1.3 megpixel camera expectation which never materialized on the 650
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Albert C. Lee
    I would never want to leak out all my specs while the product was still in testing. Parts shortages, last minute spec changes, etc. are items outside of my control. The last thing I want is to disappoint the public.

    Sure, let them know something is coming... by all means that is an excellent strategy. A product teaser I think is a good way to generate buzz and a lot of vendors do ad teasers, and offer the corporate market some live demos. But I would still be extremely cautious about releasing full specs. That's just me though... I'm very conservative about these things. Hardware relies on too many external dependencies... if one of your component manufacturers back out, and you have to go with your Plan B, it's best your customers never know what's released was Plan B.
    Do you work for P1. if so why ony 32MB. There is no reason why this was not upgraded.
  16. alee's Avatar
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    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by BssinRVer
    Do you work for P1. if so why ony 32MB. There is no reason why this was not upgraded.
    haha, no I do not work in the PDA industry at all. But I am very familiar with hardware product releases.

    If I were to speculate, I'd say sales/marketing said the price must be $599 and the profit must be $x. Procurement probably couldn't get the price/allotment they needed to make a 64mb or more version and settled for the cheaper chip. Somewhere, someone at PalmOne has a price model that said they'd sell Z% less units by increasing the price $50.

    Quite honestly, 32mb sucks. My only hope is someone will cash in on finding a way to desolder the 32mb chip and solder on something more substantial. It has been done with other PDAs before... and the Treo 650 is just begging for this mod.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Albert C. Lee
    haha, no I do not work in the PDA industry at all. But I am very familiar with hardware product releases.

    If I were to speculate, I'd say sales/marketing said the price must be $599 and the profit must be $x. Procurement probably couldn't get the price/allotment they needed to make a 64mb or more version and settled for the cheaper chip. Somewhere, someone at PalmOne has a price model that said they'd sell Z% less units by increasing the price $50.

    Quite honestly, 32mb sucks. My only hope is someone will cash in on finding a way to desolder the 32mb chip and solder on something more substantial. It has been done with other PDAs before... and the Treo 650 is just begging for this mod.
    I would pay to have this done.
  18. wahili's Avatar
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    #18  
    if they are being super secretive and or creating viral marketing via leaks then they should have GOOD specs to leak and or back it up. i think thats what some of us are saying.

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