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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by jglev
    Exactly!!! That is why a Treo with 32mb is criminal in this day and age of cheap RAM. I am hoping that even PalmOne won't be that stupid, but based on their past history, they rarely fail to disapoint. We just have to wait and see.
    PalmOne will utilize the least amount that they can get away with and still sell the device to the masses. While memory is indeed cheap(er), PalmOne needs all per unit margins they can get. Just for arguments sake, let's assume that an additional 32MB of RAM costs $1.00. On a mass produced device that sells in the hundreds of thousands of units, that $1 per unit can add up to significant amounts. Who do you think PalmOne cares more about, you (me), or their shareholders and Analysts?
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonnerd
    PalmOne will utilize the least amount that they can get away with and still sell the device to the masses. While memory is indeed cheap(er), PalmOne needs all per unit margins they can get. Just for arguments sake, let's assume that an additional 32MB of RAM costs $1.00. On a mass produced device that sells in the hundreds of thousands of units, that $1 per unit can add up to significant amounts. Who do you think PalmOne cares more about, you (me), or their shareholders and Analysts?
    The shareholders will care if we don't buy the thing because it is unusable! It will cost them a lot more than a buck if I don't upgrade my 600 to the 650 and/or jump ship to PocketPC. Besides, there is a certain thing called passing the cost onto the consumer. Remember that Palm has an attitude problem and they tell us what we need, not the other way around. Do you remember when there was a time that they told us we didn't need more than 2mb of RAM, we didn't needn't need color screens, we don't need multitasking. Now they tell us we don't need more RAM, we don't need WiFi, we still don't need multitasking and we definately don't need a VGA screen. They don't hold a monopoly, there are other choices available and they should do what they can to hold onto or increase their market share. I am not sure they really understand what is going on in the marketplace if they think that releasing an upgrade to the Treo with 32mb of RAM is acceptable.

    I like the idea that Left4 put forward: boycott the 650 and write to PalmOne saying we won't upgrade until they add more RAM.
    Jeff
  3. #23  
    Bostonnerd and jglev you both make good points. A buck a unit is trivial on the consumer end at $650 each. But a buck a unit is hundreds of thousands when that’s how many units you intend to move. So why not just pass the buck on to the consumer? Because price is as much a function of what the market will pay as it is what the thing costs to make. If you mark a product at $649.98 you can sell a lot more than if you mark them $650.00 and way more than a price of $651.00 or $650.98. People won't buy it if the price does not match the perceived value. Therefore every added dollar must be weighed against perception and possible sales. Hence no wifi on this unit.
    The technology is there to make the greatest PDA/Phone any of us could imagine. The perceived value and cost discrepancy of such a thing is so huge that no one will risk making the thing.
    I don't work in marketing and it has been too many years since I was taking marking in collage. So if this is not quite right, please forgive. Some people on this board don't tolerate others too well.
  4. #24  
    Nokia has that phone with everything it it, it's the 9500. But it is not available in the US yet. Some say it as big a brick but it couldn't be that big. I wish Nokia would release it inthe US before I buy the 650.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dafydd
    People won't buy it if the price does not match the perceived value. Therefore every added dollar must be weighed against perception and possible sales. Hence no wifi on this unit.
    The technology is there to make the greatest PDA/Phone any of us could imagine. The perceived value and cost discrepancy of such a thing is so huge that no one will risk making the thing.
    I agree that is their train of thought, generally, but I also know this - if they will just build the "greatest PDA/Phone any of us could imagine" then many of us, probably all of us, as well as many thousands of others, will buy it. Like I said in another thread, we will all eBay the hell out of our garages if they will just build the damn thing! If your choices were between what is out there now and the Treo with everything we want (hi res, mucho RAM, fast processor, long battery life, BT, WiFi, 1MP camera, etc.) then why wouldn't we all buy one?
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by BssinRVer
    Nokia has that phone with everything it it, it's the 9500. But it is not available in the US yet. Some say it as big a brick but it couldn't be that big. I wish Nokia would release it inthe US before I buy the 650.
    It lacks a vital feature - Palm OS.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by BssinRVer
    Nokia has that phone with everything it it, it's the 9500. But it is not available in the US yet. Some say it as big a brick but it couldn't be that big. I wish Nokia would release it inthe US before I buy the 650.
    It is gargantuan:

    Nokia 9500 "Size
    Weight: 230g
    Dimensions: 148 x 57 x 24 mm "

    vs.

    Treo 600 Dimensions: 4.4 x 2.4 x 0.9 inches (11.2 x 6.0 x 2.2 cm) 5.9 ounces (168 grams).

    And to praphrase Gizmodo, the keyboard is too small for touch typing, and too big for thumb typing. You are stuck with hunt and peck.
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    #28  
    Forget the Nokia 9500. The so-called "Treo killer" is the Nokia 9300, which is much smaller.

    Weight: 167 g
    Dimensions: 132mm x 51mm x 21mm, 126 cc
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    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean18
    I agree that is their train of thought, generally, but I also know this - if they will just build the "greatest PDA/Phone any of us could imagine" then many of us, probably all of us, as well as many thousands of others, will buy it. Like I said in another thread, we will all eBay the hell out of our garages if they will just build the damn thing! If your choices were between what is out there now and the Treo with everything we want (hi res, mucho RAM, fast processor, long battery life, BT, WiFi, 1MP camera, etc.) then why wouldn't we all buy one?
    Agreed! Also, this is a different market than your typical electronics/PDA market. Most of the phones will be sold by the carriers and they don't give a hoot about a buck since they make their money on voice and data plans month after month.
    Jeff
  10. #30  
    My point was that the market will handle $649.98 but not $651.00. If P1 adds 32megs at $1 ea. they get nothing back and are still out the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Sure it would be great for us, but what is in it for them?
    Personally I don't think the profit margin is that tight on this thing. In fact I think if it comes in at $650 (what I expect) then they have tagged $50 on just because the T600 started at $600 and this is supposed to be an upgrade. They know they can get it out of us. And that I way I also think on Monday we will happily find that it does indeed have 64megs.
  11. jglev's Avatar
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    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dafydd
    My point was that the market will handle $649.98 but not $651.00. If P1 adds 32megs at $1 ea. they get nothing back and are still out the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Sure it would be great for us, but what is in it for them?
    Personally I don't think the profit margin is that tight on this thing. In fact I think if it comes in at $650 (what I expect) then they have tagged $50 on just because the T600 started at $600 and this is supposed to be an upgrade. They know they can get it out of us. And that I way I also think on Monday we will happily find that it does indeed have 64megs.
    I hope you are correct, and it will have 64mb of RAM. If it does, then I will upgrade, but from every indication we have seen, it appears that there is only 32mb. I hope I will be pleasantly surprised when the final specs are announced.

    I understand and respect the point you are making, but my point is that I think the market can handle $651 and it's the carriers that subsidize the price of the phone anyway.

    Regarding what's in it for them is that they will sell more so that people like me who find 32mb too little will upgrade. I know I have sold at least 4 Treos when I have shown it and recommended it to friends. We are all physicians and need to carry around large databases that need to be in RAM in order to update themselves. If the Treo 650 comes out with 32mb of RAM (and with only 20mb useable which is even less than the usable RAM in the 600), I won't be upgrading and won't be recommending it to others. Thus by being stingy, sales are lost. Who know, I might jump to Pocket PC (the Daxian looks interesting) and could end up recommending that. It is dangerous for PalmOne to have people jump ship to another platform since they will probably have a hard time getting them back in the future. That is the last thing they need from a business prospective.

    It's the old saying: "penny wise, dollar foolish."
    Jeff
  12.    #32  
    Please, please, please, someone with inside or advance knowledge give us SOMETHING to chew on regarding memory. So much is known already - it surely couldn't violate your non-disclosure agreement. Or, how about those of you without NDAs that have seen 650s for a couple of minutes. Just a scrap off your plate.....please....
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by jglev
    I hope you are correct, and it will have 64mb of RAM. ... It is dangerous for PalmOne to have people jump ship to another platform since they will probably have a hard time getting them back in the future. That is the last thing they need from a business prospective.
    It's the old saying: "penny wise, dollar foolish."
    You hit square on the reason I think it is coming with 64megs. I have a relative that is in marketing for Chevron. He told me that they spend thousands of dollars to get one “loyal” customer. That’s a gas company! Who would have thought that loyalty was even an issue? I know I stick with just one gas company, but I thought most people shopped price. He also said that losing a single loyal customer is seen as a disaster because it indicates that many customers that don’t have loyalty are also gone.
    I just hope P1 understands this concept. I did some rough estimates in another thread and figured that those of us here represent less than 1% of P1 sales. But we represent the “loyal” customer group. They can’t afford to lose us because it means a lot of other customers are gone too.
    I don’t think they listen to (read) us specifically, but I couldn’t imagine that they don’t check all of these groups from time to time. They just have to know that the time is right for 64megs. After all the Tungst5 has 256megs. Wouldn’t be cool to have 256 in the T650? It is possible, they are brothers.
  14. #34  
    Hi Guys
    Just read in the Bangkok Post that Samsung has just launched the new SCH-S250.

    It has '92MB onboard memory and can store up to 100 minutes of video while 32MB auxilary memory is included as a standard feature'.

    Now this is a phone for pictures (also has MP3 Player) and it has 92MB and it looks like we are going to get a poxy 32MB for a device that is designed for so much more! Ok the extra 32MB is not a lot but in total they are giving their buyers 124MB.

    Palm are you listening!

    BTW it has a 5Mp camera with lens developed in conjunction with Asahi Pentax, high sensitivity flash, can be used as a camcorder, shutter speed 1/1,000th of a second that permits users to to photgraph lanscapes as well as objest as close as 10cm.

    Cheers
    BBKBAZ
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by BBKBAZ
    Now this is a phone for pictures (also has MP3 Player) and it has 92MB and it looks like we are going to get a poxy 32MB for a device that is designed for so much more! Ok the extra 32MB is not a lot but in total they are giving their buyers 124MB.

    Palm are you listening!

    BTW it has a 5Mp camera with lens developed in conjunction with Asahi Pentax, high sensitivity flash, can be used as a camcorder, shutter speed 1/1,000th of a second that permits users to to photgraph lanscapes as well as objest as close as 10cm.
    The problem is clear - that thing is a CAMERA with a phone built into it. Who needs that? It is not even close to the quality of a PDA as a Treo. Anyone buying a PDA for the camera is a moron - the camera is a BONUS ONLY! Sure, 5 MP would be nice, but my 4 MP Canon PowerShot S400 fits nicely in my right pocket, so my Treo can ride comfortably in my left.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean18
    The problem is clear - that thing is a CAMERA with a phone built into it. Who needs that? It is not even close to the quality of a PDA as a Treo. Anyone buying a PDA for the camera is a moron - the camera is a BONUS ONLY! Sure, 5 MP would be nice, but my 4 MP Canon PowerShot S400 fits nicely in my right pocket, so my Treo can ride comfortably in my left.

    Hi Ocean18

    I agree that anyone buying for the camera alone is a moron.

    My point was that this is a very limited device in terms of its functionality and it has 92MB.

    We have a device that is very different, agreed, but its functional uses are way more advanced and yet we have only 32MB to use.

    I wasn't trying to compare the two as they are clearly different beasts. Just saying that a more limited device has way more MB.

    Cheers
    BBKBAZ
  17.    #37  
    How big of a file can a 1.2 MP camera take? Can it easily be sent by MMS?
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