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  1. dwman's Avatar
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    #21  
    Don't forget, P1 subsumed Handspring AFTER the Treo was released. So does it fall on HS....Nope, because they no longer exist. Can't blame it on P1....they purchased HS, but can't back up all previous claims that HS made.

    A lawsuit is weak...get over it, people. Don't purposely look for something to sue over. You want Blutooth, buy the upcoming T650, you want wi-fi, wait it out for the next-gen device or buy something else.

    Most of us think this is a great device, otherwise we wouldn't have spent good, hard earned $$ on it, or devoted hours reading/writing on these forums.
    Focus your anger elsewhere...it's not productive here.

    ok, I'm done venting.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by nuflat
    Why advertise something that is not yet available just to make more sales?
    wake up, it is called business.
  3.    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy
    Resent me all you want, but the truth hurts, doesn't it?

    In the end, plantiffs won't win anything with a lawsuit -- only the lawyers. And if you want to take money away from their R&D budget, go right ahead.

    Somehow the fact that money that could be used to go to make the best damn next-gen Treo out there will end up funding some shark's new Ferrari just simply doesn't sit well with me.

    Or did you just want to make the company less competitive with Motorola and Nokia -- is that what you intend?

    You guys really need to go out and get some fresh air. The treo is a PHONE for chrissakes. Get some perspective, people.
    First off, I dont resent you, I resent the angle that your arguement is coming from.

    Second, everyone knows that it is just a gadget. This thread however is more about a principle than a smartphone.

    Third, and as stated before, I dont intend on suing anyone. What I honestly would like to see happen is a legal opinion rendered on if there is a feasible case here. It may not be. Im not a lawyer. Maybe a Treo user / Treocentral.com reader is, and he/she can chime in.


    Im not sure anyone here wants to "win" anything in a lawsuit. I personally think a driver, or a non-free "we screwed up" upgrade to the next generation Treo, or maybe even a simple apology would work for most people.
    Last edited by RWerksman; 10/27/2004 at 10:43 PM.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by jasparks
    Don't forget, P1 subsumed Handspring AFTER the Treo was released. So does it fall on HS....Nope, because they no longer exist. Can't blame it on P1....they purchased HS, but can't back up all previous claims that HS made.

    A lawsuit is weak...get over it, people. Don't purposely look for something to sue over. You want Blutooth, buy the upcoming T650, you want wi-fi, wait it out for the next-gen device or buy something else.

    Most of us think this is a great device, otherwise we wouldn't have spent good, hard earned $$ on it, or devoted hours reading/writing on these forums.
    Focus your anger elsewhere...it's not productive here.

    ok, I'm done venting.
    right on!
  5. nuflat's Avatar
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    #25  
    So that's your answer? Get over it? I don't think people here are looking purposely for something to sue over, they just want what was said the device had the capability of doing. How is someone going to get that? Obviously the first thing that people think is law suit because most of the time, that has the greatest effect. You could send P1 and email and ask them about this and they will probably snub their corporate nose and say hey, you bought it, tough do-do. Does that encourage me to go out and buy the 650? I don't think so.

    Also I am not angry, I'm just jumping on the bandwagon!
  6.    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by BigKenny
    wake up, it is called business.

    When you make a sale based on a promise of future returns, and those returns never materalize, it isnt called business. Its called deceptive advertisement.
  7. #27  
    instead of sueing people or looking for handouts. i would think for the price of an antitrust suit you could outsource writing drivers for this. you could be the 3rd party provider that everyone is looking for. then everyone would be happy.

    Quote Originally Posted by RWerksman
    First off, I dont resent you, I resent the angle that your arguement is coming from.

    Second, everyone knows that it is just a gadget. This thread however is more about a principle than a smartphone.

    Third, and as stated before, I dont intend on suing anyone. What I honestly would like to see happen is a legal opinion rendered on if there is a feasible case here. It may not be. Im not a lawyer. Maybe a Treo user / Treocentral.com reader is, and he/she can chime in.


    Im not sure anyone here wants to "win" anything in a lawsuit. I personally think a driver, or a non-free "we screwed up" upgrade to the next generation Treo, or maybe even a simple apology would work for most people.
  8. nuflat's Avatar
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    #28  
    wake up, it is called business? No that is not business at least the kind I'm in. If you tell a customer especially printed, that a product has a certain capablilty, you better be able to back it up. Otherwise, it's called out of business.
  9.    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by BigKenny
    instead of sueing people or looking for handouts. i would think for the price of an antitrust suit you could outsource writing drivers for this. you could be the 3rd party provider that everyone is looking for. then everyone would be happy.
    Until I get stonewalled by P1, or find out that it is technologically impossible.
  10. nuflat's Avatar
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    #30  
    You wanna know what deceptive business is? Giving away free ipods by jumping through
    hoops and agreeing to have 100's of thousands of spams come to your email address.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by nuflat
    wake up, it is called business? No that is not business at least the kind I'm in. If you tell a customer especially printed, that a product has a certain capablilty, you better be able to back it up. Otherwise, it's called out of business.
    i didnt say it was good business, did i? at my job i am very concerned that our products live up to the pre-release marketing. however with how quickly things change in the technology sector, that may not be a good decision tomorrow. go to a tradeshow where they showcase prerelease ideas or concepts, anyone that goes to these know that the released version of hardware/software usually changes, some a little, some a lot. i am just pointing out that that is the crappy part of this business sometimes. obviously the best thing to do is underpromise, overdeliver, on budget and on time, but that rarely happens. i think if they continue to overpromise and underdeliver, out of business it will be!
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by nuflat
    You wanna know what deceptive business is? Giving away free ipods by jumping through
    hoops and agreeing to have 100's of thousands of spams come to your email address.
    i dont think it is deceptive? i know what i am in for. i figured i would try it, the guys at engadget.com said it seems legit? will let you know.
    Last edited by BigKenny; 10/07/2004 at 05:10 PM. Reason: typo
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by nuflat
    Why advertise something that is not yet available just to make more sales?
    Uh, you answered your own question. In the same sentence no less.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy
    Let me quote a statement on this thread:

    [...]

    As for pointless lawyer bashing, well, unless I see one step up to do some pro bono work, I will stand by my statement.

    You must be a lawyer. Not many people use "unwarranted" in everyday conversation.
    Lawyers do pro-bono work regularly (some more than others). However, expecting a lawyer to spend hundreds of hours for free on a complex case such as the one described here is a bit much. Most people cannot afford to work (and incur the lawsuit related expenses such as expert fees, filing fees, etc) without compensation.

    You are right that the potential individual recovery here is small - that is why class-actions were created. The lawyer gets compensated well because he pays the expenses and bears the risk (ever read/seen "A Civil Action"?)

    Would this be a valid claim? I have no idea. Would I take this case? No.
  15. dwman's Avatar
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    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by nuflat
    So that's your answer? Get over it? I don't think people here are looking purposely for something to sue over, they just want what was said the device had the capability of doing. How is someone going to get that? Obviously the first thing that people think is law suit because most of the time, that has the greatest effect. You could send P1 and email and ask them about this and they will probably snub their corporate nose and say hey, you bought it, tough do-do. Does that encourage me to go out and buy the 650? I don't think so.

    Also I am not angry, I'm just jumping on the bandwagon!
    Then don't buy the 650!! That's fine, but BT/Wi-Fi were mentioned as possible add-ons. HS didn't specifically say, YES, BT and wi-fi WOULD ABSOLUTELY work on this device. You have to read b/w the lines. If they, or someone else thought they could make it work, fine, if not, no one promised/guaranteed anything. I'm willing to bet 80-90% of treo buyers did not make their purchase based on the "possibility" of bt or wifi. It would have been nice, but they knew they weren't getting it when the bought it, everything else after that is gravy.
    I'm by no means advocating a company make claims they can't back up, but they made no promises either. That's just the way it is, like it or not!
  16.    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by jasparks
    Then don't buy the 650!! That's fine, but BT/Wi-Fi were mentioned as possible add-ons. HS didn't specifically say, YES, BT and wi-fi WOULD ABSOLUTELY work on this device. You have to read b/w the lines. If they, or someone else thought they could make it work, fine, if not, no one promised/guaranteed anything. I'm willing to bet 80-90% of treo buyers did not make their purchase based on the "possibility" of bt or wifi. It would have been nice, but they knew they weren't getting it when the bought it, everything else after that is gravy.
    I'm by no means advocating a company make claims they can't back up, but they made no promises either. That's just the way it is, like it or not!
    But if you didnt know for sure that Wi-Fi and Bluetooth cards were absolutely coming out, then why open yourself up to something like this by advertising something that may be false?

    I may be off here, but when they (who ever wrote that on the box) said it will be compatible with 3rd party cards, I expected it to be compatible with 3rd party cards. We have two third party cards out now. It is compatible with neither, and doesnt appear is it ever will be.

    If they would have said that it is "maybe" compatible, I would understand...
  17. dwman's Avatar
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    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by RWerksman
    But if you didnt know for sure that Wi-Fi and Bluetooth cards were absolutely coming out, then why open yourself up to something like this by advertising something that may be false?

    I may be off here, but when they (who ever wrote that on the box) said it will be compatible with 3rd party cards, I expected it to be compatible with 3rd party cards. We have two third party cards out now. It is compatible with neither, and doesnt appear is it ever will be.

    If they would have said that it is "maybe" compatible, I would understand...
    They put BT/wi-fi on the box because they know that's what will make it fly off the shelves even faster. They don't promise to provide support/drivers, or anything else for that matter. I can see where it would be construed as false or misleading advertising, but maybe HS was planning on developing drivers/cards for it, but they were bought out shortly after.
    P1 certainly doesn't have to lay claim to HS promises...or it could be that no 3rd party developers have figured out how to add bt/wi-fi(not likely with this group), but still a possibility.
  18.    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by jasparks
    They put BT/wi-fi on the box because they know that's what will make it fly off the shelves even faster. They don't promise to provide support/drivers, or anything else for that matter. I can see where it would be construed as false or misleading advertising, but maybe HS was planning on developing drivers/cards for it, but they were bought out shortly after.
    P1 certainly doesn't have to lay claim to HS promises...or it could be that no 3rd party developers have figured out how to add bt/wi-fi(not likely with this group), but still a possibility.
    When you aquire a company you also aquire ALL outstanding debts and obligations unless you purchase the remains of company in bankruptcy.

    For instance, lets say I solely own a company, and owe you $1000. I then sold the company to my friend Bert. Would Bert still have to pay the $1000? You bet he would.

    I think the HS/P1 situation would follow the same logic. Am I wrong here?
  19. dwman's Avatar
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    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by RWerksman
    When you aquire a company you also aquire ALL outstanding debts and obligations unless you purchase the remains of company in bankruptcy.

    For instance, lets say I solely own a company, and owe you $1000. I then sold the company to my friend Bert. Would Bert still have to pay the $1000? You bet he would.

    I think the HS/P1 situation would follow the same logic. Am I wrong here?
    My feeling is that they're required to back up the existing product,(defects,etc..) but that's about it. Beyond that, promises of any after market products such as bt/wifi are just that...promises, and nothing more. Maybe not the best way to do business, but we all bought it, didn't we? Does that makes us all a bunch of suckers because they didn't deliver on some future capability? What they did was add it to a future device, which a lot of us here are going to put down more $$ for. That's just business, plain and simple....why add it for $50-$100 in the form of a card, when you can create a whole new device with some minor(and I do mean minor)upgrades, charge another $400-$700, and get this whole community excited about it. What would you do?
    Think about it....everyone was drooling at the first pictures, hell, not even pictures, powerpoint slides.
    Yes, it's downright evil, but it works and we'll buy it everytime.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by RWerksman
    When you aquire a company you also aquire ALL outstanding debts and obligations unless you purchase the remains of company in bankruptcy.

    For instance, lets say I solely own a company, and owe you $1000. I then sold the company to my friend Bert. Would Bert still have to pay the $1000? You bet he would.

    I think the HS/P1 situation would follow the same logic. Am I wrong here?

    This is exactly true. Unless in the takeover agreement you make some sort of arrangement to the contrary where Handspring's insurance would still indemnify them against any claims arising from when they were selling the product, then P1's insurance would pay. P1's insurance would have to pay if they continued the BT and Wifi claims after they began marketing the product. Remember, it's their insurance that pays, generally, not the companies themselves. At least, this is what I know from my limited knowledge in the area.
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