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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by suskind
    and with hx4700 you can doodle without opening the screen cover, nevermind moving around selection cursor. Can any Palm model does that?
    I could be off, but it doesn't seem like hx4700 is a phone. Thus even if it did pass the one-handed test it wouldn't matter. If you are just using it to get a definition of one-handedness, I've never used it so I wouldn't know.

    Here's my rough definition of one-handedness and it may get better as we debate it. It would need to have the following things:

    1. Some kind of screen navigation tool (Treo does it with 5-way, IBM laptops have that nubby-type mouse) that doesn't require a stylus (I have yet to see someone hold a PDA and write with a stylus with one hand).

    2. Some way of inputting text without a stylus (for reasons mentioned above). T9 qualifies for this, but only in the same way that a black in white 100x100 pixel screen qualifies as a screen.

    3. If it's a flip phone it should be easy to flip open. Ideally it would have a switchblade type button or something I think.

    4. In addition to all this it should be able to have a stylus and touchscreen available for PDA functionality when you need that functionality.

    Thus while it can be a one-handed device, it should be able to gain advantages from the two-handed process for when you want it.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by suskind
    define 'one handedness' (let's see if we can go beyond P1 marketoid speaks and gets down to reality.

    and with hx4700 you can doodle without opening the screen cover, nevermind moving around selection cursor. Can any Palm model does that?
    Okay - where's the cell radio in an hx4700? Looks like a PDA only to me, but if it's also a cellular phone, I apologize.

    One handedness means you can do many, if not most, of either the PDA or cell phone functions WITHOUT pulling out the stylus. The 5-way Dpad on the Treo600 eliminates most stylus related activieties, and in brings you a converged phone/PDA in a cell phone form factor.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  3. #43  
    My $0.02...

    I used Palm OS long before OS 5. I'm a current WM2003 user. Here is some feedback for those still trying to compare the two operating systems.

    It's less an issue of which operating system works better, and more an issue of which device manufacturer will enable which capabilities for your device. I like the "windows like" feel of WM2003. I currently have a 5455 that came with PPC2002, and I have since upgraded it to 2003.

    My dissatisfaction, however, comes with HP's terrible support for the IPAQ line. The WM2003 upgrade process was a horrible experience - and I consider myself VERY computer ept. Many portions of the process didn't work as instructed, and the fix to those issues was hidden from the general support pages so as not to alarm the user community. My 5455 would work with a 802.11b WAP, but not one that had both b/g. The fix for that created corrupted system files, again another remedy that is hidden from the general public. HP selectively decides which devices they will and won't allow OS upgrades to (like WM2003 SE), presumably to enable their continuing development of new hardware. There is nothing "zero config" about the zero config WiFi capability of WM2003. You can't look at and change WiFi WAPs or configuration on the fly by any means - so much so that I've given up on using the device for WiFi.

    Now don't get me wrong. I'm an HP customer in many ways. But I am anxious to drop the IPAQ line in favor of the new Treo. What I remember of my old Palm and Handspring products is very positive. And if there is now a comfortable way to integrate my high volume cell phone usage, and sync with Outlook - done.

    Perhaps my experience might have been different with a Dell Axim or something other than an IPAQ. But I'm not willing to test everything. I want a device that works, but more than that I want a device that will be supported. I wasn't getting that with WM2003 and HP. My friends call me a computer expert. However, it took this expert hours upon hours to get things like WiFi upgrades, OS upgrades, and general interoperability to work on my device. The IPAQ forums I'm in seem to support that same frustration with HP, so be advised if your considering anything in their line. A couple of good resources would include...

    www.ipaq.net

    www.ipaqabilities.com
    KitMoni
  4. joele's Avatar
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    #44  
    I want a device that works, but more than that I want a device that will be supported.
    mmm, Palm is not the best for support in my experience, one of the reasons I decided to try the Imate out, their hardware support for myself and others (I have read about in threads here) who had faulty Treo 600's has been a rather horrible experience, one faulty refurb replacement after another, I admit I have no experience of HPs support, or support from Palm in America (others could who have returned units in US, was it good or bad?).

    I could barely understand the english (for lack of better description) of the outsourced Palm support people I had the pleasure of dealing with

    That said, the OS patch (ROM) that was released was simple to apply, athough so was the Imate PPC phone ROM upgrade.....
    Last edited by joele; 10/08/2004 at 09:30 AM.
  5. jberger's Avatar
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    #45  
    Not to sure you can blame palm on the treo support, in my experiance, those calls are handled by the carriers, not Palm. Not sure who handles the Refurbs but I think Tesco does most of the GSM carrier refurbs, so not sure they are liable there either.
    Of course, you can hold them 100% liable for inital build quality, and I think that's one of the main reasons they've moved 650 production over to HTC.
  6. #46  
    I think that you need to separate PalmOS problems from Treo 600 possibly hardware/firmware issues. I think most of the Treo complaints are thing related to the later and not things that you find in other devices with the PalmOS.

    I guess because we are talking about phones the other devices don't matter much, but with a new company making the hardware we should be able to expect a decline of faulty refurbs and such. Thus you might get a good OS on good hardware.

    I don't think I've heard of anyone's Palm getting so fubar that a hard reset doesn't fix it. I don't think if this was the case with kitmoni's experience. In my experience, Windows isn't like this. If it's broken it's not like I can get it up and running from a clean install and easily restore. Well maybe if I ghosted a clean image and then stored my data elsewhere, but who wants to go through that work.
  7. #47  
    I just like PalmOS. It might be a little dated but it does a job for me and does it very well... I would like to play with a BenQ P50 tho
    www.gsmworld.com
  8. Iceman6's Avatar
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    #48  
    My definition of "one-handed phone" is real simple. Can you place a call by dialing the phone with your thumb? The hand that is holding the phone is also doing the dialing. I really don't think a touchscreen phone keypad (i.e., what you typically find on a PPC phone) will ever work for this. The PPC phones I've seen that have thumbboards are mostly designed for use with two thumbs -- i.e. they are designed for keying text, not phone numbers.

    The only PPC phone that is TRYING to meet this standard is the MPx. To me, what the MPx shows is, if you load up one device with everything that everyone has been asking for, you end up with a phone that needs a huge battery. No thank you.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    I think that you need to separate PalmOS problems from Treo 600 possibly hardware/firmware issues.
    Agreed. The thread started comparing operating systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    I think most of the Treo complaints are thing related to the later and not things that you find in other devices with the PalmOS.

    I guess because we are talking about phones the other devices don't matter much, but with a new company making the hardware we should be able to expect a decline of faulty refurbs and such. Thus you might get a good OS on good hardware.
    Not consistent with my experience. Quality improves with the maturity of the product. I do not expect an improvement in quality simply from a change of source.

    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    I don't think I've heard of anyone's Palm getting so fubar ]that a hard reset doesn't fix it.
    I agree. However, most cell phones never get fubar. The problems we experience with PDAs and smartphones are related to the increased flexibility, features, and functions.

    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    I don't think if this was the case with kitmoni's experience. In my experience, Windows isn't like this. If it's broken it's not like I can get it up and running from a clean install and easily restore. Well maybe if I ghosted a clean image and then stored my data elsewhere, but who wants to go through that work.
    And that is an important comparison.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by suskind
    what the hell are you blathering about.
    1. MPX uses similar proc as h6300. ANd nobody is complaining about how slow h6300 is.2.MPX is unreleased product.
    Really....nobody is compalining about how slow h6300 is?????

    From bargainpda.com:

    "To help keep battery life long and costs down (stop laughing), HP opted for a 168 MHz TI processor. The slow CPU has been a concern for many, who wonder if the h6315 can keep up with a demanding lifestyle. Well, the initial verdict is in, and the results are scary. Not only is the h6315 at the bottom of the Spb Benchmark Index, it's behind much older devices with similar processors like the T-Mobile MDA and the old Compaq iPAQ 3600.

    Mobile Gadget News has posted a number of benchmark results, and they're almost all terrible. "

    http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsID=2196

    If you are going to trash Palmone/Palmsource, at least try to do a little homework first. Quoting you, "what the hell are you blathering about?"
  11. #51  
    And keep in mind that battery life, not performance, is what has accounted for much of the success of Palm OS.
  12. jberger's Avatar
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    #52  
    Battery life? Not on the treo. . . I have to charge mine at least one during every day and overnight.
    Thank God they finally added a removable battery in the 650.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by jberger
    Battery life? Not on the treo. . . I have to charge mine at least one during every day and overnight.
    Thank God they finally added a removable battery in the 650.
    Must be a Sprint Treo. I am delighted with the battery life on my GSM Treo. In a year and a half, I have only exhausted the battery intra-day once. This is my seventh or eighth cell phone and the only one where I have not suffered from battery insecurity. (I take that back; my Nokia 8890 has very good battery life but it is only a phone.) I Cannot charge overnight because I take the phone to bed with me so I can read.
  14. #54  
    I think the new HP Windows CE phone (T-Mobile) is sweet.
    The reason I'm not interested:
    It's huge, the form factor is too big and bulky.
    No QWERTY keyboard.

    If someone was to make a windows CE device that had a keyboard an similar form factor/size to Treo 600, I'd consider chosing the windows CE once I've compared the two.
  15. cec
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    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by jberger
    Battery life? Not on the treo. . . I have to charge mine at least one during every day and overnight.
    Thank God they finally added a removable battery in the 650.
    I have a GSM Treo and the battery life is fantastic - the best of any phone I have owned. You should call Palm and see if they can get you a replacement.

    Prior to buying the Treo, I returned two Motorola Mpx200's because the battery life was so poor (I thought they were defective). I gave up on the Mpx200 and got the Treo instead.
  16. Kash76's Avatar
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    #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by taylorh
    I think the new HP Windows CE phone (T-Mobile) is sweet.
    The reason I'm not interested:
    It's huge, the form factor is too big and bulky.
    No QWERTY keyboard.

    If someone was to make a windows CE device that had a keyboard an similar form factor/size to Treo 600, I'd consider chosing the windows CE once I've compared the two.
    Agreed, I love all the features of the new TMo iPAQ and I could live with the size but I won't carry an attachable keyboard with it.
    Kash76

    Sprint - Treo 650, 700wx, 800w, Touch Pro
  17. #57  
    I must say...I was a HARDCORE Palm OS user, then I (GASP!) went to the Dark Side and bought the HP iPaq 6315 running Windows Mobile. I was aghast at the issues. I will admit that the easy integration of all the features was nice, but what are we to expect from a company that already does everything we use? Microsoft makes windows, something most of us already use. Naturally, something pocket sized of something we already use is going to seem more familiar. Secondly, Microsoft also makes most, if not all, common and standardized document formats today. Again, naturally, support for those formats can be included in a product powered by microsoft's software. However, I find that devices running Pocket PC and/or Windows Mobile are struggling to keep up in the "Integrated Handheld" market. The iPaq 6315 was a NIGHTMARE. It was branded t-mobile, and I had problems with it right out of the box. The most obvious problem was its inability to send e-mails with ANY attachments over the GPRS connection. It is a known issue between T-Mobile and HP, and they are working on it...but an estimated fix date of DECEMBER on an issue that should have been perfected by the get-go? No thanks. I do not rely on being able to send e-mails with attachments while away from a WiFi network. But what about those business professionals who might choose to take this $600 piece of equipment on a business trip with them in lieu of a laptop? They are then stuck looking for a WiFi hotspot somewhere around an unfamiliar city just so they can e-mail their new proposal on time. E-Mail Attachments should be available on GPRS connections. Oh, and guess what??? With a little tweaking, (Using ZLauncher, a $10.00 app) and the Treo's built-in Mail app, you can e-mail ANY file over GPRS. Pretty cool, if you ask me. I didn't even have to buy a $50.00 snappermail program like some have done. It's fine if you want the upgraded UI, but it's just not for me.

    My second rant about Windows Mobile "Smart" phones:
    THEY FREEZE ALL THE TIME.
    I know, T-Mobile is not known as the best network to have as far as network coverage goes. However, I should not have to reset my phone (as in soft reset) every time it loses a signal! The dang thing would not do a new search except for like every half hour. Not to mention how many times it reset on its own if it didn't like who you were calling or some other reason of the same magnitude.

    All in all, I have tried both devices. I am very happy with Windows XP, despite calling myself somewhat of a tech head. I just enjoy using it. But the Windows Mobile converged devices, or at least the 6315, have a long way to go before I would choose them again over the Treo line. Just my two cents...or however much that rant may be worth. =)

    Cheers,
    Brady
  18. jberger's Avatar
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    #58  
    Oh, and you forgot to say, Active Sync Sucks . . .

    Brady, I feel like you are holding back on us!
  19. #59  
    http://www.engadget.com/entry/7313209331031743
    i think this one is about 1/4" longer and 1/2" wider. it is a bit bigger but has the hideaway keyboard, bluetooth and pocket pc os. i was talking to sprint, in the next few weeks they will have 2 new bluetooth phones, this one (they call it the PPC 6601, the 6600 w/camera will be relaease later) and the LG PM-325.
    this one looks like they were planning a sept release with sprint back in april, the 6600 w/ cam was supposed to be in oct....

    i guess the fact that it is in sprint telesales computer systems mean it may be out soon (the 6601)?

    Quote Originally Posted by taylorh
    I think the new HP Windows CE phone (T-Mobile) is sweet.
    The reason I'm not interested:
    It's huge, the form factor is too big and bulky.
    No QWERTY keyboard.

    If someone was to make a windows CE device that had a keyboard an similar form factor/size to Treo 600, I'd consider chosing the windows CE once I've compared the two.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by Triple xXx
    Why would someone choose the Palm OS over Microsoft Windows Mobile OS.
    It's a mystery to me.

    I've used a Treo because superior hardware has compensated for the inferior software. But now that there are various PPC options here and on the horizon, I'm no longer willing to compromise being without multi-tasking; integrated, robust, bundled software; and the latest technology such as bluetooth and wi-fi.
    You may be right; I may be crazy. But, the Treo may be just the device I've been looking for.
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