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  1.    #1  
    I hope things change but I have only seen things get worse over the last 2 years (all while still holding hope). With the release of the T5 today and the parallel release of the Treo 650 in the coming month(s), things do not look good for Mac users. Here are a few reasons why (with more to come).

    Palm's refusal to allow Macs to initiate a Bluetooth connection to a Palm Bluetooth device

    Windows only Expense conduit

    Windows only Note Pad conduit

    Windows only Outlook conduit

    Windows only media extensions

    160 MB of space for flash based file transfer of ANYTHING... as long as it is on a Windows machine

    Quick Install... only for Windows

    DataViz Documents To Go conduit AND Desktop... only for Windows

    The inclusion of the Audible application... WINDOWS ONLY!

    The inclusion of RealPlayer with new Palm devices... if you don't know what this means, you have never tried to use Real on a Macintosh at ANY given point in time over the course of the last 3 years.

    Turn your back on me, I turn my back on you. There will be regrets but I cannot continue to contribute money to a company such as this.

    Sorry Palm.

    I hope things change.
  2. #2  
    Just curious....what's your alternative other than Palm? Pocket PC PDAs? Symbian Smartphones? Linux devices?

    And have you looked into third-party software?
  3.    #3  
    Video encoding does not look good for Mac users either.

    I really hope they do not use the same technology on the Treo 650 to encode the video as what they have for the T5, which requires Media Player 9 and DirectX. How friendly will this be for Mac users who want to bring the video taken from the Treo's video camera to the desktop? It won't be friendly at all. Depending on how DirectX is incorporated, it may not be possible at all.
  4.    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rome
    Just curious....what's your alternative other than Palm? Pocket PC PDAs? Symbian Smartphones? Linux devices?
    Not sure yet. Pocket Mac will let me sync to a Pocket PC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rome
    And have you looked into third-party software?
    I have The Missing Sync. Granted, this does (sorta - sans file management) solve one of the problems mentioned above of flash file transfers. But I have to pay an extra $40 for a partial equivalent.
    Last edited by archie; 10/04/2004 at 08:40 PM.
  5. #5  
    I have been using the Treo 600 and my PM G5, PB G4, iMac G5 and have had no real issues. I have used quite a few alternative solutions that I think work better than what Palm makes available anyways! Granted you have to spend more BUT even if Palm had included some of those tools, I would have used other solutions anyways.

    In regards to Bluetooth, I cannot comment since I have had limited experience on Palm devices with Bluetooth.

    Expense, I use Pocket Quicken which works great.

    I have been using Missing Sync 4 for a while now and it has some great features including the use of Memo Pad sync.

    Since I do not use Outlook on the Mac, my sync functions to Entourage or Apple iApps work (i think Palms internal applications are the main limiting factor)

    In regards to email, I use Chatter and connect to my imap server with no issues and i think it works 1000% better than any Sync function available from conduits or wireless sync features through companies like Verizon.

    Use Card Export II for the Flash media access. It works like a charm. I use it insted of the Missing Sync included tool, since it is MUCH FASTER.

    DataViz Doc to Go, I have it installed on my Mac with the conduits and everything works great including live sync of native documents.

    I really do not know about the Quick install feature, but Missing Sync feature with different profiles takes care of QUICK installs for me with ease.

    Not played with Real Player on the Palm but do own it on the Mac even though I don't care for it, it does work.

    Audible Applications ???

    I also think the solutions to the Mac community from Palm could be better, but I have found some great alternatives that work as good if not better.

    Good luck.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie

    Palm's refusal to allow Macs to initiate a Bluetooth connection to a Palm Bluetooth device
    How do you know that this was a P1 decision rather than a carrier decision? Sprint has been notorious for trying to keep people from using their cell phones as modems.
  7.    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy
    How do you know that this was a P1 decision rather than a carrier decision? Sprint has been notorious for trying to keep people from using their cell phones as modems.
    I don't care about Sprint's restrictions, I'm talking about Palm's insistence on their OS restricting the Mac from initiating a Bluetooth connection. The connection must be started from the handheld itself, it cannot be initiated from the Mac desktop. Now the list of things this restricts is long but it cuts out really cool and convenient things like dialing from your desktop (say the Address Book) and talking on speakerphone while the phone sits next to you.

    You could continue working on that project you will be e-mailing as soon as you bring in the new photo the client (who is on the phone) just sent over and you check it out in the new ad layout. But not with a Mac and Palm.

    Ever try cradling a cell phone between your ear and your shoulder while working.

    Booooo Palm.

    Many bluetooth phones broadcast the caller ID info up across the screen and let us answer with a click of a button. Not Palm.

    I'm not even gonna get into proximity detection here.
  8.    #8  
    Note to moderator:

    I do not think this thread should have been moved. This is meant to compare the differences of two different platforms. Now the attention I feel this thread deserves will go unnoticed. Just like the Mac platform is going unnoticed by Palm.
  9.    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by MacInfo
    Expense, I use Pocket Quicken which works great.
    $30

    Quote Originally Posted by MacInfo
    I have been using Missing Sync 4 for a while now and it has some great features including the use of Memo Pad sync.
    $40

    Quote Originally Posted by MacInfo
    Since I do not use Outlook on the Mac, my sync functions to Entourage
    I would have to pay $300 for Microsoft Office to get Entourage in order to sync to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacInfo
    In regards to email, I use Chatter and connect to my imap server with no issues and i think it works 1000% better than any Sync function available from conduits or wireless sync features through companies like Verizon.
    How much is Chatter and the monthly subscription I bet over $100 for that first year along with the application.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacInfo
    Use Card Export II for the Flash media access. It works like a charm. I use it insted of the Missing Sync included tool, since it is MUCH FASTER.
    $15

    Quote Originally Posted by MacInfo
    DataViz Doc to Go, I have it installed on my Mac with the conduits and everything works great including live sync of native documents.
    $50

    Quote Originally Posted by MacInfo
    In regards to Bluetooth, I cannot comment since I have had limited experience on Palm devices with Bluetooth.
    Priceless.

    I would love to have the bluetooth capabilities that technology allows for today. But Palm doesn't let us have it.

    To get these features I would have to pay more than the phone itself costs. My point is that Windows users will not have to pay the $900+ for these features. This is to say nothing of the possibility that the Treo 650's encoded videos will not be playable on the Mac desktop. Please someone prove me wrong.
    Last edited by archie; 10/04/2004 at 09:59 PM.
  10. #10  
    Symbian might be a viable alternative for us Mac users. the Nokia 6600 supports isync and even photo IDs, which is something that no other phone OS supports for us. The Nokia 6630 is the next-gen version that is coming out by the end of the year. Symbian is not as robust as Palm, but if Palm keeps cutting us off then the advantages of PalmOS will be minimalized. Although like the SE P900 you would be giving up a full keyboard.
    Last edited by Jaxboro; 10/04/2004 at 10:05 PM.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie
    I hope things change but I have only seen things get worse over the last 2 years (all while still holding hope). With the release of the T5 today and the parallel release of the Treo 650 in the coming month(s), things do not look good for Mac users. Here are a few reasons why (with more to come).

    Palm's refusal to allow Macs to initiate a Bluetooth connection to a Palm Bluetooth device

    Windows only Expense conduit

    Windows only Note Pad conduit

    Windows only Outlook conduit

    Windows only media extensions

    160 MB of space for flash based file transfer of ANYTHING... as long as it is on a Windows machine

    Quick Install... only for Windows

    DataViz Documents To Go conduit AND Desktop... only for Windows

    The inclusion of the Audible application... WINDOWS ONLY!

    The inclusion of RealPlayer with new Palm devices... if you don't know what this means, you have never tried to use Real on a Macintosh at ANY given point in time over the course of the last 3 years.

    Turn your back on me, I turn my back on you. There will be regrets but I cannot continue to contribute money to a company such as this.

    Sorry Palm.

    I hope things change.
    I understand what your saying, but the people in Mac development community are keeping Palm alive with the Mac world.

    As for:

    BT I'm not sure what you mean by that. I have a freind who has a Treo 90 with a Palm BT card and it work great with his new 15" Powerbook G4.

    Expense conduit: there's a free one out there somewhere. I think Quesync

    Note Pad: I have on my Tungsten C with the conduit and desktop app on my iMac. and it works great!!

    Quick install: Pilot Install

    and so on...
    <body bgcolor="#ffffff">
    <p><font size="-2" color="#4684ff" face="Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular"><b>imageone</b></font><font size="-2" face="Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular"> &#x2022; current - <b>PowerBook G4 - Mac OS X - white iPod video 60GB - Treo 650 - 700p (Sprint)<br>
    </b></font><font size="-2" face="Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular">retired - Visor Deluxe - Visor Prism - Kyocera 6035 - Treo 300 - Treo 600 - Blackberry 7250</font></p>
    </body>
  12. #12  
    did u know audible has a player that works on the treo 600 AND a mac? when I run the app with the hotsync cable connected, itunes shows the treo on the side panel and I can drag files directly to my treo
  13. #13  
    "How much is Chatter and the monthly subscription I bet over $100 for that first year along with the application."



    Chatter has no monthly subscription. It is a flat fee purchase of $25 and depending on your data service, you can also use it as a TRUE PUSH mail program. (AKA=BlackBerry without the need for a PC software!)

    You should give it a try:
    http://mytreo.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB....num=1095400630

    I am not saying that we don't need better support from Palm and that YES there are some limitations. Unfortunately I have not used Palm's Bluetooth capabilities both because I use a Treo 600 and any other Palm I have owned did not have built in Bluetooth. Also I have always thought that the cell phones network speed has always been a little too slow for my liking to be used as a modem. BUT if what you have said is true about BT and it's shortcoming specifically to the Mac, then that is an unfortunate limitation to the Mac community. I will do some digging on this to see if I can get any more details for myself.

    In terms of data services, I either use WIFI or broadband PC5220 card from Verizon for my net connections for my laptops. Costly but there is no comparison if you are looking for performance and wireless in a cell environment.

    All I was trying to show you in my thread was alternatives that work very well and that I have used for a long time. i knew that each solution costs $ but I was just trying to help you out in seeing that there were such solutions just in case you were not aware of them. Also depending on the Outlook sync capability, are you working with an exchange server ? If so you might be better off using Apple's mail and address book. It actually communicates with an Exchange 2000/2003 server better than Entourage and it's free with OS X and it also sync rather nicely using iSync with the Palm or Missing Sync 4 conduit. if you need more input I can direct you to some sites. In terms of Audible, I use an iPod so I was not aware of such a program on the Palm but since then I have noticed that there is such a tool and that it does work with iTunes and the Mac from the Palm.

    Just trying to help.
    Last edited by MacInfo; 10/04/2004 at 11:43 PM.
  14. #14  
    For me the choice is simple - PalmOS is the best choice (currently) for Mac users - period. Though theirm development continues to be Win-Centric, they haven't completely left Mac users in the dust the way other "smartphone" OS's have. More importantly, I don't have to purchase third party software to get it to Sync with my address book and calendar. It isn't perfect, but until someone comes out with something better, I'll stick with Palm.
  15. #15  
    Archie, no offense, but most of your complaints are not valid. You best check again. DataViz has both desktop and Palm versions for the mac. (at least I hope so, cause I use them every day!)

    Who needs the windows conduits, when we have MissingSync? You can transfer everything with just drag and drop from the card, you dont need no stinkin file transfers, your flash drive mounts just like another hard drive on the desktop! Even without MissingSync!

    I could go on, but there are simply too many alternatives, and fixes for what you see as problems, and they are quite simple. If you are talking about what is INCLUDED on the installation disk, yup, windows only.
  16.    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by rkevwill
    Archie, no offense, but most of your complaints are not valid. You best check again. DataViz has both desktop and Palm versions for the mac. (at least I hope so, cause I use them every day!)
    On the contrary, ALL of my complaints are valid. Now that the Treo has been released and we know more about it and the software for it, let's review.

    Palm's refusal to allow Macs to initiate a Bluetooth connection to a Palm Bluetooth device still stands.

    Expense - conduit for Windows platform only

    Note Pad - conduit for Windows platform only

    Only the Windows platform gets a conduit for Outlook

    Quick Install... only for Windows

    Media Manager for the Desktop... Windoze only

    160 MB of space for flash-based file transfers are, of course, moot because Palm decided to put a miniscule 23MB of RAM in the new Treo 650 - 6 MB LESS than what my Treo 600 has available.

    DataViz Documents To Go conduit AND desktop application... only for Windows

    Audible application... WINDOWS ONLY!

    Inclusion of RealPlayer as the one-and-only media player on the device.

    If you don't know what this means, you have never tried to use Real on a Macintosh at ANY given point in time over the course of the last 3 years. And hey guess what Their Desktop application to play MP3s and AAC's and purchased music from their music store is NOT available for the Mac (even though their whole Freedom campaign was shouting about "choice" (whateverrrrr). Not to mention their shoddy business practices and backstabbing moves against Apple(like RealPlayer hijacking QuickTime RSTP streams and claiming them as their own, illegally reverse-engineering Apple's Fairplay DRM, etc...).

    Ohhh! Almost forgot. The inclusion of Microsoft Exchange ActiveSync is cool and all... but, ummmm... how do Mac users sync all this information.
    YOU FORGOT ABOUT THAT PALM! Jerks.

    Is there something I don't understand with this new thing. Tell me, because I would love to be wrong. (Sure, it would be bad for my delicate ego, but all the better in the end).

    Quote Originally Posted by rkevwill
    I could go on, but there are simply too many alternatives, and fixes for what you see as problems, and they are quite simple. If you are talking about what is INCLUDED on the installation disk, yup, windows only.
    I realize there are alternatives. My whole point IS to bring forth the fact that we, as Mac users, are subsidizing the Treo for Windoze users. Why don't they throw us a cookie and include Missing Sync with the Treo. Even though I have already purchased this program twice to support the development (along with 2 copies of Shadow Planner AND its Mac OS X desktop counterpart), it would probably shut me up.
    Last edited by archie; 11/07/2004 at 08:56 PM.
  17. #17  
    What does this mean?? "Palm's refusal to allow Macs to initiate a Bluetooth connection to a Palm Bluetooth device still stands."

    I know Mac users that are transferring files to their treo 600 over Bluetooth, no problem. In fact, it's better than plain old sync since you can just drag and drop stuff to the treo and BAM it's on there - no sync necessary.

    The average Mac user probably cannot or will not figure out how to work around these issues, but uber geeks will have no problem and probably will end up have a better experience than most Windows users.
  18.    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisutley
    What does this mean?? "Palm's refusal to allow Macs to initiate a Bluetooth connection to a Palm Bluetooth device still stands.".
    i give up

    just look into Bluetooth sometime and you'll see
  19.    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisutley
    I know Mac users that are transferring files to their treo 600 over Bluetooth, no problem. In fact, it's better than plain old sync since you can just drag and drop stuff to the treo and BAM it's on there - no sync necessary.
    huh? just buy something with bluetooth sometime... or do some research, but don't post crap.
  20. #20  
    Been using Macs since the LCIII days. Don't you know we've always been overlooked by the big developers. What's new? Because of enterprising 3rd party developers, palm os is still the best choice. If you can't except the fact that Mac users make up a small percentage of computer users and are thus supported less you might want to consider switching to Windoze.
    Banoo... what's that smell?
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