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  1. alee's Avatar
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    #21  
    CmdrGuard, unfortunately the economics of giving away free stuff died along with the dot-com boom. While there is something to be said for customer loyalty, buying your customer's loyalty with freebies is NOT how it is done.

    IBM has its teeth firmly in the corporate laptop market because of support and quality of hardware. Customers pay the rather expensive price because they recognize the value in quality hardware and quality support. Likewise, many of the businesses built on providing high value products with strong corporate support continue to thrive because people recognize this.

    When support or quality starts to suffer, then people start looking elsewhere and vendors must resort to "cheap" tactics such as huge discounts, or do something bone-headed like Microsoft and declare end-of-life on support for older products in an effort to force people to upgrade.

    A trade-in program for a Treo 600 is a loss for PalmOne, and not one which they afford. The upside is people will continue to use the Treo. However, there is no short-term or long-term payoff.

    In the short term, the most they can hope for is accessory sales which are small profit margin items. If I were to guess, they lose maybe $50-$100 a person on a trade-up. They make back probably $20 in PalmOne accessory sales. Still a loss.

    In the long term, they hope you will buy another Treo... but wait! You'll only buy a Treo because they're offering an upgrade plan. So they have to buy your love again? It's a one way street to financial disaster. They're basically paying you to stay with the brand... a purely self-destructive way of doing business.

    Hardware trade-ups do have their place, but typically in items that hold some sort of residual value, where the company can somehow capitalize on the older technology. The Treo, like most PDAs are essentially disposable technology. It's appeal in 2-3 years is typically what you might find in a 10 year economy car. Cars are good for trade-in. Cisco routers are good for trade-in. A $400 PDA isn't worth peanuts.
  2. #22  
    Accessories are a huge mark up item. Bigger profit margin on them then on the main unit in most cases.

    P1 may decide not ot offer an upgrade program, and too big of one can certainly be counterproductive as you point out, BUT, as you note, the market is very fluid and people change phones regularly. Given that dynamic, trying to keep your customer base is critical, once you lose a customer, they may never find their way back. To some extent, an important factor is not even so much profit as market share and installed user base.

    Thus, if P1 makes, for example, $150 off of the 650, it may very well benifit them to give a $50 or even $100 credit to both keep people using their products as well as get them to buy accessories and the like.

    Many users are willing to pay more for a trusted name, or perception of quality, but people are also driven by thinking they made a great deal.

    Further, if the upgrade included sending back your 600, there would, at least, be some value to the company since it can be used as a refurbished replacement unit.

    So while it is certainly not a sure thing, I would not be surprised if there was some kind of upgrade program when the 650 rolls out. Its a judgment call, but it can easily be seen as good business for P1.
  3. #23  
    Personally, I look at how this device has MADE me money since I bought it. I'm able to run Terminal Services between motos at the motocross track instead of having to sit in my office to be 'available' to my clients.

    I can check their email, I can respond in a timely manner and I can support their every technical hiccup from whereever I am. What, my wife has to go to the bathroom while we're at dinner? Guess I'll check my email. This change in the way I do business more then justifies the $600 I'll pay for the new device. Because I've netted far greater rewards from the advanced remote connectivity this device has made possible.

    That's how I've always rated purchases. Sure the thing is cool and I'll probably be there on the day its released babbling incesently about bluetooth and hi-res as the person at Sprint finalizes my order and tries to refrain from yelling GEEEK at me. I love it! But I also know its an investment in the productivity I gain from it. For me, a 320x320 screen will mean that it'll be that much easier to navigate a Windows 2000 server from my phone. And that alone makes it a winner for me.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by CmdrGuard
    I bought one because I recieved the upgrade deal!



    Well, unfortunatly you've been dealing with companies that don't have much respect for their customers.

    For example, Apple has a nice history of offering excellent free upgrades. This has been happening since system 9 when upgrades like 9.0 to 9.2.2 were released and now the 10.x.y updates.

    Now I understand that these are software upgrades and not hardware, but the principle is the same. When the original product is lacking in terms of its full capacity, upgrades that supply the proper improvements are deserved.

    Contrastingly, microsoft charged an arm and a leg for the Windoze 95 to 98 upgrade, and the two OSes were esentially the same thing - except 98 had things such as decent USB support which 95 users should have been given for free.

    I compare the quality of the service apple has towards their customers with the quality of the service microsoft has and you see that spending $120 on an Apple product is a far better investment than $120 on a MS product.
    Actually, Apple has never offered a free upgrade to any of the major ugrades they done. 7.x-8.x, 8.x-9.x, and 9.x-10.x were all upgrades that had to be purchased. One thing that they did offer was a free upgrade to those if you bought the old version after the new version was released. Apple has even charged, at more than $100, for the upgrades from 10.1 to 10.2 and from 10.2 to 10.3. The only freebie updates have been, and continue to be, the interim updates. 10.3-10.3.4, and that sort of thing. Microsoft has long done the same thing with their service packs and security updates. Windows 95 to Windows 98 was actually very big change. Windows 98 to Windows Me was a different story.

    As others have said, hardware is very different from software in any case. No where else would you expect to receive a credit for your previous purchase of a piece of hardware. What Handspring did was way out of the ordinary, and probably did not help their already ailing finances at the time that the 600 was released. Palm will not make that mistake. I would be shocked if they did. It makes no business sense.

    My $0.02.

    Mike
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Albert C. Lee
    When support or quality starts to suffer, then people start looking elsewhere and vendors must resort to "cheap" tactics such as huge discounts, or do something bone-headed like Microsoft and declare end-of-life on support for older products in an effort to force people to upgrade.
    By many accounts (on at least this board) the quality of the Treo 600 would not be up there with those of other cell phone vendors. I've been one to overlook it because the Treo 600 brings a great form factor (among countless other things) to the table. Still it sounds like you give an argument for why there should be a upgrade path.

    My take on this is that there probably won't be one, but you can probably get a fair amount for your Treo 600 on ebay, espcially because it's not an end-of-life product.

    What annoys me is that with all the things that Palm has added to the Treo 650 the only pluses for me are the screen and the faster processor --maybe the camera for the 5 pictures that I take a year in very good lighting, where I don't have my other camera. The bluetooth and removable battery are great (even "life"-saving) for some, but I can't see the day I'd use either of them. So while I've upgraded from the days of the Visor Deluxe, I'm thinking of skipping this round unless the price I pay, minus the price I get from ebay, equals about $100 or $150.

    That's simply my approach. There might not be an upgrade and that's fine as long as the Treo 650 isn't priced through the roof and/or I can get a fair amount off of eBay.
  6. j$hort's Avatar
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    #26  
    I'm with BMac, I upgraded from a Treo 180 to Treo 600 which was a huge jump..and for the $ was worth it. $399 for the treo 600 with loyalty discount then sold the 180 for around $100. About $200 was worth the jump. Without the loyalty upgrade I would give the 600 to 650 jump a no go. If one is in place, I'd have to struggle to justify the same type of $ for the features in the 650 over the 600. I would probably do it for $100 difference and that would depend on what could be fetched for a used 600 on ebay.
  7. #27  
    If they don't offer and upgrade I think I'm going to get a x50v and bluetooth phone instead. I don't use the integrated features as much as I though I would.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by 155
    If they don't offer and upgrade I think I'm going to get a x50v and bluetooth phone instead. I don't use the integrated features as much as I though I would.
    I thought about that route, but ruled it out because I like the keyboard for e-mail and because I didn't want to sync two devices. I suppose I could just sync the x50v, but there would be times when I'm running out of the house and don't want to put two devices in my pocket. In that case I'd choose the phone and then be stuck with no one's numbers.
  9. #29  
    Yeah, I've decided that the two things I like best about the Treo are it's ability to sync with outlook and it's "unlimited" phone book. (I have so many numbers)

    I could get everything else from a phone pda combo.

    A VGA Screen, Wifi, Multitasking, Quick Processor, Dual Slots and Voice Command. Oh How I drool. And that prolly won't be on a phone for another year or two :~(
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by 100thMonkey
    c'mon, 600 dollars??? is that even 75 percent of one of your bimonthly paychecks? Its not that much, really

    so true! and if it is, you shouldn't have bought a 600 in the first place!
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    I thought about that route, but ruled it out because I like the keyboard for e-mail and because I didn't want to sync two devices. I suppose I could just sync the x50v, but there would be times when I'm running out of the house and don't want to put two devices in my pocket. In that case I'd choose the phone and then be stuck with no one's numbers.
    I agree. I've gotten spoiled between the i500 first, and now the Treo 600. I want it ALL in my pocket.

    Seriously, what we need is a smaller than i500 flip phone with Treo 650 features AND WiFi. LOL. In any event, I can't see going back to a two plus device solution (the "plus" is for those of us who've skipped a MP3 player in favor of a 1gb SD card in my Treo 600).
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  12. sledgie's Avatar
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    #32  
    yeah the dell looks nice but has drawbacks - processor speed for some reason did **** poor even though it had 16mb ram attributed to video ram? i was surprised...but the nice screen and DUAL slots looks fantastic. needs larger battery too though for all that - dual slots is crazy, did you know by march of next year 2005 with the updated CF and SD gb cards you'll be able to carry 12 GB of data on that thing? Right now you can carry a 4gb CF and 1gb SD (although 2gb is right around the corner)...that's pretty crazy if you ask me... almost the complete multimedia center... but not attachable keyboard ... i'm still looking at that Daxian/MDAIII/PDA2k/PPC 6600 - for those of us who like windows media 9+ it looks good and EVDO ... oh man, i must say, if there was SOMEWAY ppl could watch .wmv or streaming media on a treo, there would be no looking at other gadgets for me.... (and i dont mean kinoma proprietary movies either) it would be allllll treo
  13. Iceman6's Avatar
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    #33  
    If you want streaming video, I'm not sure the Treo is the right device. Don't you want a bigger screen for movies etc?
  14. #34  
    I just talked to a Sprint rep and they said after using a phone for 18 months they offer $150 towards a new phone. This was news to me so I thought I would pass it along.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by ls3mach
    CmdrGuard,

    [...]

    Palm owes us NOTHING.
    Life is a scam.
    Lonzo
    Hey ls3mach, now that the Treo 650 is out are you going to buy it? Hey if palm owes you nothing AND life is a scam, I think you should go out and buy 20 Treo 650s! AHAHAHAH

    And what about me? Oh I think Palm owes me a damn good upgrade deal if they think I am going to plop down a few hundred for some bug fixes named the Treo 650.

    That $150 off from sprint is tempting, but its still over $400, and $400 is still a lot to pay for some bug fixes.
  16. #36  
    OK, aside from one person whining about being ripped off (crazy stuff) or scammed, how much can I get for my Treo 600?

    Question: Someone mentioned something about the SD card - did they relocate it on the Treo 650?

    Thanks
    -MagicMtnDan
    SoCal

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