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  1.    #1  
    I feel slimed. I feel like corporate America has once again bent over the consumer and rammed ridiculous charges places they do not belong. In short here is what I mean: my bill shows 2000 peek minutes of data access charges I didn't authorize. After an hour on the phone with cust services, the charges were dropped, but with a catch; either I drop all data access capabilities on my treo (mobile web, sms, mms, pix msg, email ect...) or I sign up for the "optional" $45 a month unlimited data access plan (that only gives mobile web and email functionality). If I want sms and mms back that of course is an additional charge.

    Why am I posting here? Three different Verizon people told me this is a problem with the Treo. In essence, the Treo will constantly "poll" the network for mobile sync capabilities. Since each connect is counted as 1 minute, of course the vzw system counts that as a charge. I was told that I need to take this up with palmOne since its on their side, not Verizon's. I tend this think this is BS, but the argument sounds somewhat logical so I wanted to bounce it off you guys. Even if this is true, Verizon sure isn't going out of its way to make peace with its customers.

    By the way, when I bought it a month ago, I specifically asked how this whole thing worked. The sales guy told me that if I did not have the "optional" service, I would only be charged for the minutes I used when accessing the data network. Something I was perfectly willing to agree too. Today, when I spoke to the three different people (including the same sales guy) I got the "new company policy" rhetoric, and that those of us originally told differently "are screwed".

    What would you do? All I need is very occasional access to email and some sms. I can't justify spending $45+5 a month for this. On the other hand, I bought the damn thing to allow exactly that occasional use. Dumping Verizon is not an option; I need the coverage, I'm out the cost of a $450 phone and a $175 early term fee. I'm stuck ain't I?
  2. #2  
    I am using minutes only for my Treo (Verizon). Absolutely no problems yet (owned it since the first week it was available).

    I don't have wireless sync set up and have SnapperMail set up to always disconnect after checking (manual start) for mail, and always remember to manually disconnect when I use Blazer.

    I would suggest looking into one of the programs that will force the data disconnect either at certain time periods, or per your settings (when Treo is turned off, after x minutes, etc).

    I'm with you. No way in hell will I pay $45/month for the limited data that I use, but am not going to pay for the limited data plan ($25 for 5mb) and risk overages on something so hard to keep track of.
  3.    #3  
    Pablo, very interesting! So you've had zero issues with this "automatic connect" thing? Also, are you implying that unless you force Blazer to disconnect, it will in fact stay connected? Even though the led returns to normal, and the two way arrow shows that no connection is currently active?

    Is there an app someone can recommend that will log all antenna access? Meaning, can i see a report of how often and for how long the treo tried / succeeded in connecting either for data or voice?
  4. #4  
    as a dumb non user am i reading that you can just contract to use the cell phone plan and not get a data access plan and still use the data service only when you want it and turn it off and not be charged for it until you turn it on again?
  5. lasercomp's Avatar
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    #5  
    I had the same exact problem with Verizon. I was a longtime sprint customer and decided since my contract was over to switch to a "better" cell phone carrier. like an ***** I chose Verizon. I bought the Treo 600 and used it for about 8 days. At work I decided to go online and see how many minutes I used. It showed 720 minutes in a matter of 8 days. i only spoke on the phone for less than 60 minutes. i called Verizon and they told me the same thing you guys discussed above.. i told him to go screw himself andf the service and I want a full refund and cancel the contract. They let me cancel the conract and I sent the phone back. I went back to Sprint and they are giving me 2 free months of PCS vision and then it is $15 a month for full unlimited data service..
  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by lasercomp
    I decided to go online and see how many minutes I used. It showed 720 minutes in a matter of 8 days.
    You're certainly smarter than I. I, of course, didn't check this out until my first bill showed up... 17 days after purchaseing the phone/contract. 3 days beyond the allowed 14 day period. Lucky me.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonWilliam
    Pablo, very interesting! So you've had zero issues with this "automatic connect" thing? Also, are you implying that unless you force Blazer to disconnect, it will in fact stay connected? Even though the led returns to normal, and the two way arrow shows that no connection is currently active?

    Is there an app someone can recommend that will log all antenna access? Meaning, can i see a report of how often and for how long the treo tried / succeeded in connecting either for data or voice?
    Well, it's commonly known that even when Blazer is not active, and the arrows go grey, the data is still active and you have the possibility of being charged. It's still technically "connected". You have to go into the menu and manually disconnect (or do it via network prefs).

    Under these conditions, I have had zero issues with data overages and have never seen an "automatic connect". (knock on wood)
  8.    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by PabloTX
    Well, it's commonly known that even when Blazer is not active, and the arrows go grey, the data is still active and you have the possibility of being charged.
    Not so commonly known as you might think. Each vzw rep asked about the light, and the arrows, but not about the "disconnect" from Blazer. Also, I did get a full description from vzw regarding this auto connect, and they do have a new company policy to avoid these connection charges by making you buy the full blown data package. 2 thoughts here: either they truly don't know that Blazer may be the issue, or they do and are unwilling to inform their cust base, in favor of forcing them into a revenue generating plan. Very interesting indeed. I think I feel slimed all over again.

    I'd bet a buck this is what's going on. I'll keep an eye on this, and with PhoneTools Pro, try and track exactly what is happening.
  9. #9  
    Hey Jason,

    How many minutes do you have for your plan? If you have more than you need, I think you could create a setup where you "dial up" to a local internet ISP using the local number and use the internet. It is slow and you do get charged for the minutes of use. But if you disconnect the call after you retrieved email, I do not beleive it would poll the network since your "dialup" connection would be one that you use.

    FYI. I am a Sprint PCS user and have not had Verizon. But, I did create the "dial up" connection using this method:
    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...ghlight=dialup

    I hope that this may be an option for you.

    Dave Lindberg

    P.S. Another thought... if after checking your occasional email, have you tried to disconnect from the Network, to show no grey arrows. This should correct being charged for overages, if infact Blazer is the culprit. Just a thought.
  10.    #10  
    Dave, thats the answer. Thanks! If it proves that there is an uncontrollable auto connect thing going on, then it makes total sense to dump "MobileWeb" and use the phone as a modem. Yes you give up connection speed, but that is one very VERY small price to pay for having total control over your phone's actions. Thanks for the tip!

    Here's another thought too. If the phone uses whatever network connection specified in the prefs, then shouldnt we be able to create a dummy connection and have it selected as the default? That way, whenever the phone tries to auto connect (assuming this is a real issue) it will attempt using a bogus network connection. Then, if you need to use it, you can go back in, specify the real network, use it and then reassign the dummy when you're done. Not the cleanest solution, but it will allow high speed access and only when you specify.
  11. #11  
    A few observations.

    I have documented emails with customer support, and, while the official standing is that you must buy a data plan, they don't have a way of stopping you because the "Mobile Web" and the Get It Now system also uses 1xRtt. That's why you can still use minutes to get data access on the Verizon Network. It may be possible for you to call customer service and totally have your data access cut off, and then use the dial-up account as was suggested earlier. I know this is an option, because that's what happens when normal cell phone users can't use their WAP browser. Alternatively, you can probably go into Network Prefs and change your account name or password so that your phone won't authenticate.

    You might want to consider getting programs like MinutePlus or Call History to track when exactly your phone is connecting. That's my plan: I'm gonna sign up for unlimited data to avoid overage charges, and use a program to accurately assess my minute usage.

    Also, check your programs. I never set up Wireless Sync, although I've heard that can be a problem. I've noticed some browsers and programs like Chatter and Verichat sometimes connect randomly if you don't exit them properly. I was using Webviewer and got interrupted while surfing on news.google.com. Even though I was in another program, my arrows turned green every few minutes, and I think it's because it was receiving refreshes from the website. Programs like TreoConnectionManager and BatteryDoctor might be in order.
  12. #12  
    You're mot paying the extra $5 for mobile web are you? That's only needed to access Verizon's WAP portal, which the Treo doesn't need as it has a "full" browser.

    And yes, I do believe Verizon is just trying to sell data packes. Along with the increased revenue, it's probably a whole lot easier for them to deal with than trying to explain the EN-MOU, which isn't even an official Verizon policy.
  13. #13  
    I'm wondering if there is a difference in the Vzw firmware vs. Sprint.

    Quite a few people put 'Verizonized' Sprint treos on VZW and haven't had these problems

    Is it VZWs wireless sync that is the real culprit? That wouldn't be on a Sprint treo
  14. #14  
    Many are not using Wireless Sync (WS) and the problems still occur. I've had this issue as well. There are actually two.

    1) After I close an email/web session - not the data connection - green arrows will still be present for about 15 sec. They then become grey arrows.

    2) When turning on the Treo intermittently throughout the day, those grey arrows appear to also "wake up" and turn green again - for about 5-15 sec. This does not happen every time when Treo is turned on, but often enough.

    When I completely close the data connection - through Network Prefs - there are no green/grey arrows at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by BoeingPilot
    I'm wondering if there is a difference in the Vzw firmware vs. Sprint.

    Quite a few people put 'Verizonized' Sprint treos on VZW and haven't had these problems

    Is it VZWs wireless sync that is the real culprit? That wouldn't be on a Sprint treo
  15. #15  
    That's what you want...no arrows whatsoever.

    Grey arrows are like a passive system...waiting for data. If you want to ensure no data is transmitted or received, you must manually disconnect the data connection.

    I've done this since day 1 and have had no problems.
  16. #16  
    I wnt through the same crap with them, basicaly buy a 25 or 45 plan or loose all data access. Making there $500 less usefull thenthe free phones they give away. It's totaly ridculouse and nees a class action lawsuite to wake their fat asses up. There is ZERO reason the device needs to work this way, it can be handled completely ondemand traffic, verzion is just likes to bill FAKE minutes originated from them to you regardless of if yoru device is even on. Stop the madness.

    A big warning to anyone useing there minutes, WATCH OUT, this is what I did and phone bill ended up being over a thousand dollars! This is a total scam but nobody at version is willing to own up to that isntead they are laughing all the way to the bank.

    The arrows mean nothing I use the battery dr to kill the conection whenever the phone is turned off but the vollume of minutes is that is generated is insane and has nothing todo with the device, it is clearly on teh version side, and removing wireless syn and disable the auto connect helps in no way. It's just a scam and it's out of control.
    Last edited by Griffon; 09/17/2004 at 04:51 PM.
  17.    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by PabloTX
    You're mot paying the extra $5 for mobile web are you? That's only needed to access Verizon's WAP portal, which the Treo doesn't need as it has a "full" browser.
    Can you explain this a bit further Pablo (I know its been covered here far too often, but I've found myself confused everytime I try and read a thread on it). From my experience today, I would state that when "MobileWeb" was disabled for me by VZW, I lost the ability to connect with Snappermail, and blazer. To my treo, the "network" looked dead. If what your indicating were true, I would have expected the WAP portal to fail, but Snapper to still work.

    What am I missing?
  18. #18  
    You need mobile web if you want to access Verizon's WAP portal on other phones that have a WAP browser (Motorola v60i, LG VX6000, etc). You do not need it for the Treo.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonWilliam
    Dave, thats the answer. Thanks! If it proves that there is an uncontrollable auto connect thing going on, then it makes total sense to dump "MobileWeb" and use the phone as a modem. Yes you give up connection speed, but that is one very VERY small price to pay for having total control over your phone's actions. Thanks for the tip!
    I dont believe this is posssible as the network has 2 classifications of distinct 'data' and 'voice'. I beleive the network will not allow a dial-in to an ISP to transmit data, otherwise we would all be doing it...
    Click for Free iPod Nano or better. - really works!
  20. #20  
    The reason isn't that you need mobile web, it's that you need a data access account. If you turn off mobile web as well as not subscribe to any data plan, they can turn off your data access entirely.

    While billing based on "Minutes Used" is not officially supported by Verizon, they can't prevent you from doing it if you have mobile web.

    p.s. it IS possible to get some nice customer service rep to just turn on data access for you without making you sign up for mobile web, but it involves you asking them nicely and having it done a bit "off the books."
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