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  1.    #1  
    Here's Walt on T650 availability:

    http://ptech.wsj.com/mailbox.html
    [edit - please don't post copyrighted materials to the forums. Kurt]
    Last edited by KRamsauer; 09/16/2004 at 11:18 AM.
  2. #2  
    Disappointing that possibly only one carrier might have the new model this year.

    I think Mossberg speaks volumes when he says "it will have some new features. These new features will be nice to have, but none of them will change the fundamental functionality of the device."

    I don't see how Palm can charge a super huge premium on such changes.
  3. #3  
    what makes you think that pOne will be charging a premium? How do you know that? just wondering...
  4. #4  
    I am amazed at the candor of his response. There is more confirmation of rumor from a trusted source in that short snippet than in hundreds of posts we've seen.

    I'm just hoping the "one carrier" is Sprint...
  5. #5  
    It won't be a premium at all IMO. It'll come out at the exact same price the 600 originally did, and the 600 will be materially lowered.

    TM
  6. #6  
    When I said premium, I meant to say in comparison the Treo 600's current lowest available price. I'd expect them to be relatively close in pricing structure given that it seems like it's only an incremental upgrade. If we take that to be true (which we don't have to, we can argue this later), and the Treo 600 is on sale for $199 at Amazon (and I'd expect it to be that way everywhere when the Treo 650 comes out), it would seem that the Treo 650 would sell at $399 or so with carrier rebates. I don't know if they can charge anything like $599 and leave a $400 gap between the two phones that have the same "fundamental functionality."
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    ....it would seem that the Treo 650 would sell at $399 or so with carrier rebates. I don't know if they can charge anything like $599 and leave a $400 gap between the two phones that have the same "fundamental functionality."
    I think that there is almost certainty that the 650's MSRP will be $599 (at least at Sprint) upon release. That is what happened with the 600, so there is precedent for it happening with the 650.

    As for Mossberg's points, they are well taken. However, the point regarding the same "fundamental functionality" does not relaly hold up when comparing an updated new model to an old one. It certainly is not a strong enough point for P1 to depress pricing.

    While Mossberg's email accurately points to the "glitzy" new/updates features -- screen resolution enhancements, BT, removeable battery, better keyboard -- we know that there are other "under the hood" changes that should substantially (or at least somewhat) improve performance (e.g., doubling processor speed, newer OS, etc.). I am at least as interested in these latter additions as the former. I'd venture to say that all Treos to come will have the same "fundamental funcationality" -- they'll all be smartphones. Anyway, $599 MSRP is what I see in our future.

    I hope I'm wrong on the price, but I bet I'm not.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by charlynu
    Here's Walt on T650 availability:

    http://ptech.wsj.com/mailbox.html
    A synopsis from Yahoo:

    -- http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bb...7051&mid=25441

    Shhhh...don't tell Rome!
  9. #9  
    I think you might have to throw precedent away because that added new fundamental functionality in that it could replace my mp3 every day and my camera to a very limited degree. It also added SD expansion, 5-way D-pad, overall form factor reduction, and a much better OS. It also did the upgrade things like the brighter screen, better (well different) keyboard, more memory, and better processor. Thus you were getting many new features and upgrades.

    In contrast, the Treo 650 offers only BT as a new feature. The screen is an upgrade (and a significant one) as is the processor, the keyboard, and the camera (though it's still not good enough to replace my digital camera and won't be for a few more Treo's I'm guessing), but we got those before and a lot more. I think the Treo 650 will offer a lot of new applications which will add value. I'll concede that.

    I think wi-fi would be fair added functionality (though it should have been able to be added on to the Treo 600). A strong IR port for using as a remote would have added functionality.

    What's really improved under the hood? Just the processor and the slightly new OS? We got an upgrade from 3.5 to 5+. This gets us from 5.2 to 5.4? I don't know the differences in them, but I haven't come across software written for 5.4 that doesn't work for 5.2. Then again I don't buy a lot of extra software. Where's the memory upgrade? That would be something under the hood that's easy

    I'm just not seeing the same kind of quantum leap from the 300 to 600 that I'm seeing from the 600 to 650. I'm not saying that I won't get a Treo 650 when it comes out, I'm just saying that it's not the same awe-inspiring leap and shouldn't command awe-inspiring prices.
  10. #10  
    I think it will be Sprint... and that's not very good news to me I hope that they would at least release an unlocked GSM version early on, but precedent doesn't support this
  11. #11  
    bmac - perhaps that's why they named it the way they did - there's less difference btwn 600 and 650 than there is between 300 and 600

    ???
  12. #12  
    We DO NOT KNOW what they will call it. It could be called the 700.
  13. #13  
    Whether it's the 650 or the 700 it's not a 900 which would imply the same type of upgrade (if you believe in such naming conventions). In any event, it doesn't really matter what it's named. "A rose by any other name..." blah blah. The point is that to me it doesn't seem such a quantum leap from the Treo 600. I hope that the price reflects that and that it reflects that the Treo 600 can be had (in some circumstances) for $199.
  14. #14  
    Mossberg's answer effectively confirms that the model name will be 650, that Sprint (one US carrier) will be first out of the gates with it and that Bluetooth is still being relegated to ubergeek users as a necessary feature in the US. Mossberg also confirms that the 600 is staying. The 650 is a premium unit with better feature set in that mix.

    As for price (MSRP, not after rebates and such from the carriers), I see the 650 coming in at between $599 and $650. I see the 600 dropping to $499 to $525 and then, there's that yet-to-be really-documented low end "Rowdy" unit that would round-out a true line of modern Treos in the $299 range.

    Remember, those prices that Amazon and such post are heavily subsidized by the service contract rebate structure and the heavy profits they make when they sell an activated unit. For the trade-up buyers like many here, unless you jump through the hoops it takes to rangle a "new" activation (which can be done if you have the time), MSRP will be the price you will pay.

    There are no deals on stand alone hardware -- even on the 600 this late in the game -- other than the palmOne package accessory freebie deal. I tried to track down discounted hardware from all the carriers about 45-days ago for a deal I was building. We were buying somewhere around 200 Treo 600 units, giving them to users and they were then responsible for activating and such (it was a health insurance company giving them to high prescribers to do eRx.) Anyway, the carriers offer the rebate as a service credit -- do as a discount up front. We couldn't get a dime off any of the hardware directly. The users could get a FREE Treo 600 from the insurance company and then, if they activated, get the service credit as a immediate or mail-in rebate. This worked the same will all US carriers -- I know, I spent lots of time on this.

    palmOne also price protects their resellers on the hardware and generally leads a hardware price drop with a rebate or freebie offer just like we've seen here lately. They treat the Treo differently from other handhelds because, other than the unlocked GSM unit they sell direct, because they don't sell the units -- the carriers do. Their store for Treo is really a reseller portal for each carrier and not a palmOne direct purchase. So, volume discounts and such are all deals you have to cut with the carriers or a reseller. Unless they are guaranteed an activation -- there is no money to subsidize the price period.

    So, it's good to know that the 650 is coming soon to at least one carrier, it's good to know that the 600 will continue to be sold (helps our resale values on ebay and it's good to know that we can count on grizzly old Mossberg to keep us up-to-date on real Treo happenings.
    ---------------------------------------------------
    Mike Lohsl
    Mobile Evangelist

    From The Mind Of Mike...
  15. #15  
    Good post MikeUnwired. As I'm indeed an upgrader, I would depend on a great eBay resale ($350 or more) and Sprint is going to have to give me another $100 to lock-in for another year if I'm going to justify paying $599 for the new device. As you've kind of stated, there's likely to be about a $100-$125 price difference between the two phones if bought new. Considering that I don't have a "new" one, but that it's 2 months old, I would think think that a fair price after selling mine should be $200. If PalmOne can get that price for the upgrade, I think they'll have another sale. If they want more, I'll have to wait until the next one.
  16. #16  
    I can tell you that a GSM version through T-Mobile will be offered within "weeks" of the Sprint 650 launch.

    A late breaking development in the last 2 weeks has forced T-Mobile to work less with HP citing "extreme technical issues" with the HP 6315. I can personally tell you that the 6315 was a mistake for T-Mobile.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by garyhartaz
    I can tell you that a GSM version through T-Mobile will be offered within "weeks" of the Sprint 650 launch.

    A late breaking development in the last 2 weeks has forced T-Mobile to work less with HP citing "extreme technical issues" with the HP 6315. I can personally tell you that the 6315 was a mistake for T-Mobile.
    Do you have anyway to confirm that is correct? Becuase I'm a TMo subscriber and really want the new Treo 650...but I'm not willing to wait FOREVER! That new MDAIII looks pretty good and is supposed to be available in Oct.
    Treo 650 GSM Unlocked-TMobile
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    I'm just saying that it's not the same awe-inspiring leap and shouldn't command awe-inspiring prices.
    Yeah, it sucks. The difference between a 1995 and 1996 Acura Integra wasn't a quantum leap either, so I should have just gotten the 1996 for a discounted price to upgrade from my 1995.

    Your logic is really, really bizarre, I must say, but not surprising. Everyone wants something for free or cheap.

    And that $199 price? Includes carrier subsidy of the unit. Your price comparisons are apples and oranges.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    Disappointing that possibly only one carrier might have the new model this year.

    I think Mossberg speaks volumes when he says "it will have some new features. These new features will be nice to have, but none of them will change the fundamental functionality of the device."

    I don't see how Palm can charge a super huge premium on such changes.

    I disagree. BT will tremendously alter the way I use my Treo...
    _________________
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    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  20. #20  
    BlueTooth is appealing but I'm not sure how much it will change my actions as I really don't use a headset today and my car isn't that hi-tech (yet). I could actually see 802.11b being a bigger change for my Treo use seeing as I'm still lacking a VPN solution (something I miss with the 270). The hi res screen just helps keep current with many apps that don't suport our 160x160 screen.

    If the 650 has dual SD slots and one is powerful enough to support future SDIO cards then that might be my biggest changing point as that can change everything.

    I'm most likely going to take the upgrade price when it comes to T-Mobile (may switch to Verizon if they beat TMo) but I'm still not convinced that this is my dream device.
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