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  1.    #1  
    Did you find out when that investor meeting is to be held? I hope people did not **** you off this forum.
  2.    #2  
    bump
  3. #3  
    Bssin, I have sources that tell me there is an investor call on Monday the 20th. Maybe just maybe. I find it laughable that people are speculating the end of September date for promotions is a bit sign. Do they not understnad what a business quarter is? The promotions are slated to end in line with the end of the quarter to boost sales as much as possible. I think (my opinion only) that why would be smart to annouce the new model(s) before EOQ to get the advance orders booked. The problem is under Sarbanes-Oxley they can not take this as revenue until they can ship the units.
  4.    #4  
    Thanks.
  5. #5  
    Not trying to flame, just adding a couple sidebars...

    Not all companies use a calendar year for their fiscal quarters. Also, prepaid orders have always been a liability account. This was not mandated by Sarbanes Oxley.
  6. #6  
    The call on Monday is no secret. PalmOne is releasing its quarterly earnings, and this is a totally normal conference call to discuss the numbers. Analysts get on these things with the execs to discuss what the company did in the quarter.

    It's unlikely --though not impossible-- that the company would tie a product announcement into their earnings report, for fear that one announcement would overshadow the other. I'd be very surprised if they released the 650 on Monday.

    There's more of a chance they might announce the Ace around October 5th, when they're hosting an Analyst Day in New York. That's a full-day conference where they talk about the business plan, the product pipeline, etc. They're definitely going to want to get into details about the Ace at that event, since it's going to be a big part of their strategy, so I'd expect more details then.

    Here's details on Monday's call:
    Q1 FY 2005 palmOne, Inc. Earnings Results
  7. #7  
    Gharrod, PalmOne's current quarter (Q2 FY2004) ends at the end of November. So the promotions are not ending in concert with the end of the quarter anyway.
  8. #8  
    king, excellent point on analysts' day in NY. I hope you're right
  9. #9  
    Thank you King, the info I saw on the EOQ on the stock boards was wrong then. I apologize.

    DaMan you are a flamer admit it. IF I preorder a TreoXXX and they have not shipped it then they cannot LEGALLY charge my credit card THUS it cannot be reported as income under Sarbanes-Oxley (and it is not prepaid either). Pre-Sarbanes-Oxley many companies DID take such sales as revenue immediately and they cannot do that now. YOU made an assumption.
  10. #10  
    gharrod,

    I was really not trying to flame, but you can feel that way if you want. I did not want people on the board to be misinformed, but you are correct on the cc charge post-shipping. I didn't realize why you were so quick to flame ME until I read some of the past threads in which you were involved.
  11. #11  
    He's a wee bit sensitive DaMan. For what it's worth your post didnt look at all flamish to me.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  12. #12  
    > ...People go to church for the same reasons they go to a tavern:
    > to stupefy themselves, to forget their misery, to imagine themselves,
    > for a few minutes anyway, free and happy.
    >
    > Mikhail Aleksandrovich Bakunin (1814-1876)
    > Russian anarchist and political theorist who opposed Karl Marx

    Hold it!

    Wasn't it Marx or equivalent who said religion was the opiate of the masses?
  13. #13  
    It didn't look flamish to me either...
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by gharrod
    IF I preorder a TreoXXX and they have not shipped it then they cannot LEGALLY charge my credit card THUS it cannot be reported as income under Sarbanes-Oxley (and it is not prepaid either). Pre-Sarbanes-Oxley many companies DID take such sales as revenue immediately and they cannot do that now. YOU made an assumption.
    Please refrain from making authoritative sounding statements regarding financial reporting matters when you clearly do not have any understanding of accounting principles.

    As an audit partner in a CPA firm, being a CPA and auditor for over 15 years, please let me educate you on why nearly everything I quoted above is wrong -

    • The Financial Accounting Standards Board issued Concept Statement 5 in December 1984. This statement is authoritative under accounting principles generally accepted in the US (GAAP). Paragraph 84, specifically 84a would preclude any organization from revenue recognition in the situation you described. Here is a handy link to the site if you would like to look it up FASB Pronouncements.

    • The Sarbanes-Oxley Act, or "SOX", as it is commonly referred to, was passed by the Congress in 2002. The act does not in ANY way effect GAAP. Congress does not legislate GAAP.

      The possibility of the US Congress legislating accounting principles caused great concern among me and my peers as well as the business and investor communities. You can look at the IRS Code and figure out why - it is full of provisions for special-interests and is voted on by individuals who do not have the time (and most likely the interest) to understand the nuances of derivative financial instruments or other complex financial reporting matters.

      If you want a summary of SOX provisions - go to the American Institute of CPAs website SOX Summary

      Basically to state that the accounting treatment of a transaction changed due to SOX is a clearly ignorant statement.

    • SOX established the Public Company Accounting Oversight Board (PCAOB). This non-profit organization is authorized to establish standards to oversee the audits of public companies. To perform this function, the PCAOB is empowered to set standards in relation to these audits, however, the PCAOB has yet to adopt any standards which affect revenue recognition or any other GAAP reporting standards. If you would like to see PCAOBs adopted and proposed standards, check out their website PCAOB Standards

      Therefore, even indirectly SOX did not affect revenue recognition standards.

    • The SEC, which does have standard setting authority with regard to public companies has issued Staff Accounting Interpretations which serve to interpret existing accounting standards (set primarily by the Financial Accounting Standards Board - FASB). One such interpretation - SAB 101, provides a Q&A format with regard to revenue recognition. These interpretations were clarifications or interpretation applied to specific circumstances which were inherently complex in nature - not a basic transaction as the one you described. They do not impact the underlying statements they interpret. A handy codified set of SEC standards is on their website SEC bulletins


    In summary, no organization could have recognized such payments in revenue under GAAP. It would have been fraudulent financial reporting in the 1980s (and earlier for that matter) and it still would be today, but in any event SOX did nothing to change this.
  15. #15  
    Great post Jonhoffm...thanks for such a detailed explanation.

    Gharrod's been called on his BS time and time again...yet he persists in dishing it out anyway.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by gharrod
    Bssin, I have sources that tell me there is an investor call on Monday the 20th. Maybe just maybe. I find it laughable that people are speculating the end of September date for promotions is a bit sign. Do they not understnad what a business quarter is? The promotions are slated to end in line with the end of the quarter to boost sales as much as possible. I think (my opinion only) that why would be smart to annouce the new model(s) before EOQ to get the advance orders booked. The problem is under Sarbanes-Oxley they can not take this as revenue until they can ship the units.
    What is this "I have sources" deep throat type of statement? All these investor call and analyst day information can be found right on the Investor Relation page on P1's very own web site. Here is the link:

    http://ir.palmone.com/ireye/ir_site....mo&script=1000

    This is not some type of dark corporate secret. All this is public information and has been announced for weeks.
  17. #17  
    Thank you, thank you, thank you!

    I was going to educate gharrod about GAAP and SOX, but you did an excellent job.

    Gharrod, once again, you have shown your lack of understanding on matters of business, finance, accounting, and economics.

    Your rabid defense of your wrong positions is even more laughable, as if that creates authority. Ever hear the saying "Tell a lie loud enough and long enough and people will believe it"? That will not work here.

    Are you related to Dan Rather? He, like you, has a habit of presenting hoaxes, and then claiming truth in the face of obvious evidence that says otherwise.
  18. #18  
    What is this "I have sources" deep throat type of statement? All these investor call and analyst day information can be found right on the Investor Relation page on P1's very own web site. Here is the link:

    http://ir.palmone.com/ireye/ir_site...lmo&script=1000

    This is not some type of dark corporate secret. All this is public information and has been announced for weeks.
    Haha...that's Gharrod's M.O. - he talks about all these special contacts and top secret software apps he has and how we couldn't begin to understand them. But he never states what they are. Then people start to flame him...so he tells them how ignorant they all are and says he is leaving the board for good. Thing is...he never leaves...and the vicious cycle repeats itself!

    I am eagerly looking forward to his response to this!
  19. #19  
    http://store.palmone.com/family/inde...entPage=family is a link you may want to check out...NOTE the reference to the Treo650???

    The flamers come and flame and then claim they are not flaming...classic sign of a flamer...and I have been through Sarbanes Oxley training. I said, if you woudl read my words instread of interpreting them the way you want to, that many companies DID take such sales as revenue. I did not say it was legal to take it as revenue. Among other things this is ONE of the REASONS for the Sarbanes-Oxley laws. Amazingly when the CEO has to be accountable or he faces jail time and fines things change. I never once claimed my information about the investor call was priviledged information.

    But you boys keep on playing your games and reading what you want into my words, the non-flamers (which outnumber you many times over) are the reason we are all here.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by gharrod
    http://store.palmone.com/family/inde...entPage=family is a link you may want to check out...NOTE the reference to the Treo650???

    The flamers come and flame and then claim they are not flaming...classic sign of a flamer...and I have been through Sarbanes Oxley training. I said, if you woudl read my words instread of interpreting them the way you want to, that many companies DID take such sales as revenue. I did not say it was legal to take it as revenue. Among other things this is ONE of the REASONS for the Sarbanes-Oxley laws. Amazingly when the CEO has to be accountable or he faces jail time and fines things change. I never once claimed my information about the investor call was priviledged information.

    But you boys keep on playing your games and reading what you want into my words, the non-flamers (which outnumber you many times over) are the reason we are all here.

    That link shows nothing about the 650...(but we know Palm changed it).

    Flamers are not coming and going....the only one claiming coming and going that is you. Every other day you claim you're taking your ball and going home, yet you return, like a stubborn case of tinea cruris.

    People are just calling you on your erroneous posts, irrational defenses, and cloak and dagger comments.

    No one is manipulating your words...you do a fine job of that yourself.

    Using your own words (in quotes):

    "I have been through Sarbanes Oxley training."

    (well, you didn't learn much)

    "IF I preorder a TreoXXX and they have not shipped it then they cannot LEGALLY charge my credit card THUS it cannot be reported as income under Sarbanes-Oxley (and it is not prepaid either). Pre-Sarbanes-Oxley many companies DID take such sales as revenue immediately and they cannot do that now."

    (First, you are wrong on the credit card charge and legal issues. While it is common practice not to charge until something ships, companies can still charge your card before something ships.

    SOX has nothing to do with revenue reporting...that would be GAAP

    Pre-SOX has nothing to do with it...again, it's GAAP.)

    "...that many companies DID take such sales as revenue. I did not say it was legal to take it as revenue."

    (uh...if you say it's not legal, then it's illegal....back to school for you!
    And again, it's GAAP, not SOX.)

    Among other things this is ONE of the REASONS for the Sarbanes-Oxley laws.

    (As has been noted before, SOX does not affect revenue recognition (do you even understand the term?), so it cannot be a reason for it.)

    Any more words you would like quoted?
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