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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by BssinRVer
    It has been reported here you can already buy the 600 for $200 on amazon.com.
    Yeah, but the person was looking for that price before carrier subsidaries. Amazon's are with carrier subsidaries.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman6
    No way will P1 continue to offer such a lousy camera after the ACE hits the market. I think the 610 might continue to be available, but not the 600.
    I don't see why they'd discontinue the Treo 600 because of a lousy camera. The fact that they are selling well now at the price they are at indicated they'd sell even better at a lower price. What's the logic for pulling their lower line model when they have all the manufacturing already in place?
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by BssinRVer
    It has been reported here you can already buy the 600 for $200 on amazon.com.
    That appears to only be true for AT&T, not the other carriers.
    There's no place like 127.0.0.1
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    #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    I don't see why they'd discontinue the Treo 600 because of a lousy camera. The fact that they are selling well now at the price they are at indicated they'd sell even better at a lower price. What's the logic for pulling their lower line model when they have all the manufacturing already in place?
    Because it's a substandard camera. A year from now, it will be an embarrassment.
  5. #45  
    People don't buy the treo 600 for the camera. I don't see it as being an impediment to sales in the future alongside a 650, especially if it has an attractive price.
    There's no place like 127.0.0.1
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    Something else to consider...

    Now at $200, that becomes a more consumer-friendly price-point. But what average consumer would want this RIM? As gfunk said, there's no MP3, there's no camera, there's no huge library of games and productivity apps. A Treo 600 that's been lowered to $200 (after carrier discounts) will still be plenty profitable to palmOne and will be far more attractive to consumers.
    More to the point, at $200 and as a consumer device, this phone is being positioned against the Sidekick, which is being sold by... T-Mobile.

    Now, you can argue back and forth all day about the t7100's merits versus the Treos, but as a low-end consumer device? Name one reason to buy it over a Sidekick? Anyone? Anyone?

    This may not have been the brightest idea to come out of RIM.
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    #47  
    - form factor?
    - email reliability/push, etc?
    - brand name?
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    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by dr_memory
    More to the point, at $200 and as a consumer device, this phone is being positioned against the Sidekick, which is being sold by... T-Mobile.

    Now, you can argue back and forth all day about the t7100's merits versus the Treos, but as a low-end consumer device? Name one reason to buy it over a Sidekick? Anyone? Anyone?

    This may not have been the brightest idea to come out of RIM.
    Bluetooth, better phone functionality (speakerphone, voice activated dialing, physical keypad), size and weight. Also, the Tmobile plan of $60 for unlimited data + 1000 anytime minutes for the 7100t beats the plan they offer for the sidekick. Actually, I don't see why anyone would buy the sidekick over this, but your point is well taken... it's better positioned to compete with the sidekick than the treo.
  9. #49  
    Well, I personally would prefer the Sidekick II over this new RIM phone, but that's largely because I like the Sidekick's larger thumbboard and it's OS/GUI is pretty slick. It also has a camera (the quality of which remains to be seen), which is desirable to me. For companies looking to deploy tons of RIM-capable devices on a budget, this new RIM phone could be desirable. As was pointed out by someone in another thread, the other advantage to the RIM devices is that because they're more limited, this actually works as an advantage to an IT department that doesn't want to have to support these devices if a user mucks things up by installing all sorts of 3rd party apps.

    Having said all that, I guess I'm still a bit skeptical that there are really corporations deploying large numbers of cellphones to their employees. Does that really happen? I know that the Fortune 500 company I work for now has several folks with old-style Blackberries (email only, no voice), but even they are a minority (execs and probably tech support folks). I see PDAs and cellphones as a very personal thing. Sure, I'd love my company to foot the monthly bill, but I don't really want them dictating what phone I have to use or how I can use it. That may have worked back in the day when cellphones were just cellphones, but now that we have feature-rich PDA-phones, I would want to be able to choose the one that best meets my needs.

    I think it's smart for RIM to license their technology so that employees can choose whatever RIM-capable device they want. Maybe the company will help subsidize the monthly rate, but the employee pays for the rest. If they have a problem with email, they can still get tech support to troubleshoot that aspect of things, but the way the rest of the device is working (or not) is the employee's problem to figure out. I see this as the way things would and should be going. As such, this new RIM phone will appeal to certain folks who want to be able to retrieve their company email but don't need to compose too much of it and want a single cellphone-looking device. I think that RIM would be smart to revive their original Blackberry formfactor to offer a data-only option with its more comfortable thumbboard for users who want to use that in conjunction with their own personal cellphone.

    I see the Treo devices with RIM software as working well into the big picture for folks who want a single media-rich device that handles all the RIM stuff plus a whole lot more. And I personally would sure love to see a Palm OS powered Treo with a mini-Nokia Communicator style formfactor.

    In short, I think that there could be room enough for everyone. One size fits one as one Palm exec once said.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
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    #50  
    Scott, you really can't communicate with the Exchange server of a large corporation without the active cooperation of your I.S. department. It's a very short step from there to "OK, we'll support it if we can control it", which leads to standardization of the solution and orders in quantity 100. The managers where I work are all getting Treo's. I haven't looked, but I assume they are getting 610's. Sending photographs over the office LAN is against company policy.
  11. #51  
    One size fits one as one Palm exec once said.

    I'd think twice before quoting Carl Yankowski
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gameboy70
    One size fits one as one Palm exec once said.

    I'd think twice before quoting Carl Yankowski
    Actually, I'm pretty sure it was Michael Mace. But if you do a quick Google search for this phrase, you'll come up with tons of hits, so I doubt that he came up with it on his own.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  13. #53  
    The Yankowski reference was a joke. Guess Carl-bashing is passe.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman6
    Because it's a substandard camera. A year from now, it will be an embarrassment.
    I'd say that 75% of my friends or more don't even have a camera in their phone. People are still buying phones without cameras. Wouldn't a substandard camera be better than none at all? If priced competitively, there's no reason why you wouldn't be able to sell Treo 600 as it is for the next year. It's not like it's going to drop from being a $500 to not even competing with the free phones overnight. In fact, the Treo 300s are going for between $75-100 it seems -- and they are two years old, with worse form factor, no camera at all, no mp3 player, ancient OS, no 5-way navigational, no expansion slot, etc.

    Camera may be an embarrassment, but the rest of the device will still be better than the average phone a year from now.
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    #55  
    If the Treo is the only camera phone with a .3 MP camera, then it's an embarassment. If other phones are still on the market with an obsolete camera, then no problem.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonnerd
    The BB most definately has an OS, as does all mobile phones, pagers, and microwave ovens for that matter. An embedded OS (RTOS) is not necessarily exposed to the User in the same fashion. Most ATM machines use Windows XP Embedded as their RTOS. It's the same Kernel used on PocketPCs along with many process control systems. What the end user sees is the UI and GUI layers, not the OS. The RTOS used in Palm OS5 (and previous rleases) is actually licensed from a third party and was originally designed and used for pagers.

    Okay fine, I concede that point and acknowledge that the BB has it's own proprietary OS... But heck, even Toilets has an OS these days! I still don't think the 7100t is in the same league as other smartphones b/c of lack of features I previously listed. Look, imo the biggest thing the 7100t has going for it is price and perhaps the keyboard if you like it. But if the Treo600 and 7100t were priced the same, which device do you really think most people would choose? On top of that, once wireless provider start offering the BB Connect client, the advantages of the Treo will be even more apparent. Sorry, the 7100t is still not 'smart enough' imo...
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



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  17. #57  
    I'm one of the biggest critics around here of the Treo 600's camera (do a search) but I've been pleasantly surprised by the quality of some of the pics I see around here every now and again and I've also been unimpressed with the quality of pics I see from even newer cameraphones coming out on the market. So, while I'd love to see palmOne put decent cameras in all of their Treos (and by decent, I'm not talking about megapixels), I agree with bmacfarland that the Treo 600's camera can hold its own with most of the cameraphones out there.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    Having said all that, I guess I'm still a bit skeptical that there are really corporations deploying large numbers of cellphones to their employees. Does that really happen? I know that the Fortune 500 company I work for now has several folks with old-style Blackberries (email only, no voice), but even they are a minority (execs and probably tech support folks). I see PDAs and cellphones as a very personal thing. Sure, I'd love my company to foot the monthly bill, but I don't really want them dictating what phone I have to use or how I can use it. That may have worked back in the day when cellphones were just cellphones, but now that we have feature-rich PDA-phones, I would want to be able to choose the one that best meets my needs.

    I think it's smart for RIM to license their technology so that employees can choose whatever RIM-capable device they want. Maybe the company will help subsidize the monthly rate, but the employee pays for the rest. If they have a problem with email, they can still get tech support to troubleshoot that aspect of things, but the way the rest of the device is working (or not) is the employee's problem to figure out. I see this as the way things would and should be going. As such, this new RIM phone will appeal to certain folks who want to be able to retrieve their company email but don't need to compose too much of it and want a single cellphone-looking device. I think that RIM would be smart to revive their original Blackberry formfactor to offer a data-only option with its more comfortable thumbboard for users who want to use that in conjunction with their own personal cellphone.

    Scott from what I've read, RIM is not targeting the enterprise with the 7100t, but squarely at the consumer market where it virtually has no foothold. As I understand the wireless providers (like Tmo) will offer a free push email address @blackberry.net which is included for free to consumers with the Blackberry Web Client. RIM here is focusing on the low end email/pseudo-smartphone market just as Dangers's Sidekick and Nokia various 6800 series handsets. I agree the low end is where most of the future growth in the smartphone market will occur, just as it was in the pda market, and PalmOne needs release a low end Treo to compete there. Imo, the most likely senario will be that P1 will repackage the Treo600 internals into a new low end model and sell it with updated software bundle and PIM. This is precisely the same strategy they've used in the past with the Zire line and I don't see why they wouldn't do the same with the Treo. However, I would like P1 to deverisify the form factor and perhaps offer more phone-like Treo with numeric keypad or whatnot...
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

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  19.    #59  
    the htc vivida - thats a coolio I could go for if there's no end to the t650 wait:

    http://www.phoneyworld.com/handsets/...one=htc_vivida
  20. #60  
    I really don't think the low end market RIM is targeting, cares about 'push' e-mail, or even knows what it is. That is pretty much an exclusively corporate feature.

    Once the next generation Treo comes out, the current Treo will be priced competitively with the 7100t, and side-by-side, there will be no comparison.
    There's no place like 127.0.0.1
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