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  1. #21  
    >>this is a very smart gadget - just to name the trackwheel navigation<<

    The trackwheel does make a HUGE difference. I was a BB user before I bought my Treo. The reason I prefer the Treo is the ability to use it in countries in Asia where BB service is not available. It also helps when you have a choice in software for your device.

    Agreed the BB phone is a big step for them and it will take off in a big way...but the Treo will always have an edge over it. P1 definitely needs to do something about the pricing and come up with some announcements fast.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Levin
    Actually, I and many others consider email and PIM to *be* the definition of a smartphone (as compared to what I would term a PDA-phone).

    I'm a fairly serious geek, but the truth is, I use my treo for the following purposes:

    1) Phone
    2) Calendar and contacts
    3) email

    Everything else I putz around with (such as using it as a an mp3 player on trips and stuff) is less than 5% of my usage and not particularly critical.

    Steve
    and

    Quote Originally Posted by mwylde
    I would agree with Steve that the 7100 is a smartphone. I consider any phone that has a pim to be a smart phone, and Wikipedia bears me out:
    <i>"A smartphone is generally considered any handheld device that integrates personal information management and mobile phone capabilities in the same device"</i>

    I would call the Treo a PDA phone, which in my mind carries alot more weight then does the nomenclature 'smartphone'.


    IMO, a smartphone is defined as having an OS!!! The BB 7100t has none, period. By your definition, almost all the cheapo phones Nokia sells are smartphones b/c they nearly all can do phone, calendar, and email....
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



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  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by beelzebueb
    agree with steve - this is a very smart gadget - just to name the trackwheel navigation.

    All legacy gen Treos prior the Treo600 had a jog wheel/trackwheel FYI. HS had to remove from the T600 b/c of litigation threats from RIM (or "Litigation in motion ) b/c it said it infringed on some patent they had regarding the design of the thumbboard and trackwheel integration. Of corse this was total FUD, but HS was a small company and did not want or had the resources to bother. It's actually kinda ironic that now RIM is the one fighting for its existance in the courts since it appears they're the ones that originally nfringed on the intellectual property of NPT...
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  4. #24  
    Beel
    How's the weather in BKK?
    I'd give anything for some Mekong Whisky right now.
  5.    #25  
    master its raining cats and dogs perfect weather to stay inside and read treocentral about the 650 ... hkg's not that bad though, love "the peak" restaurant ... and soon you gonna have a disneyland ...

    any news from the home front regarding the t650?!
  6. #26  
    Bangkok can be fun when it rains..at least some parts
    I haven't been to the peak in 4-5 years. I live in TST, Kowloon and rarely head to HK island. Disneyland is due to open next year.
  7. Iceman6's Avatar
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    #27  
    Infosync has posted a review/preview of the Nokia 9300. Their take on the 9300's keyboard: too wide for a thumbboard, too narrow for a touch typing keyboard.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    and
    IMO, a smartphone is defined as having an OS!!! The BB 7100t has none, period. By your definition, almost all the cheapo phones Nokia sells are smartphones b/c they nearly all can do phone, calendar, and email....
    The BB most definately has an OS, as does all mobile phones, pagers, and microwave ovens for that matter. An embedded OS (RTOS) is not necessarily exposed to the User in the same fashion. Most ATM machines use Windows XP Embedded as their RTOS. It's the same Kernel used on PocketPCs along with many process control systems. What the end user sees is the UI and GUI layers, not the OS. The RTOS used in Palm OS5 (and previous rleases) is actually licensed from a third party and was originally designed and used for pagers.
  9. #29  
    Even one handed bandits (slot machine) has an OS. I almost freaked out on day at the casino when the OS came up on the digital screen of the machine.
  10. #30  
    Yes, there's no use arguing about what the definition of a smartphone is or isn't. It's a highly subjective term. IMO, even the rudimentary cameraphones with basic PIM functionality that are commonplace these days are smartphones. I think it's better to stick to discussing the various featuresets and which features you think are significant.

    This RIM device will have a more phone-like keypad while offering some semblance of a QWERTY experience. It remains to be seen how well it really works, though at least one reviewer liked it. I personally don't think I'd like it.

    The back-end Blackberry functionality is a strength, but as has already been said, there are several options for the Treo and the Blackberry functionality may even be one of them. So probably no advantage there.

    Comparing this to the current generation Treo 600, Bluetooth is an advantage, especially for this market as many of these users may want to tie it into a BT headset, their car, or use it in conjunction with a laptop when traveling. That may very well be the biggest advantage. The Treo 600 can already be had for about $200 from AT&T and $300 from Cingular. Isn't T-Mobile known more as a consumer-oriented company? My understanding is that their coverage is overall pretty awful compared to Verizon, Sprint, or Cingular's. Once the next-gen Treo comes out, the price on the Treo 600 should be taken down another notch, making it even more compelling.

    Now, comparing to the next-gen Treo, the RIM has only the keypad advantage (for those who prefer it) and likely price. But we don't know yet how low the next-gen Treo may go for from some of the carriers.

    Let's face it, palmOne's investors don't want any competitors to come onto the scene. As I've said before, palmOne has been able to have a huge profit margin with the Treo 600 and they no doubt hoped to do the same with the next-gen Treo. IMO, though, I see no real cause for concern here. They may lose some customers to this, but they'll also gain new customers with the next-gen Treo and, IMO, lots more with a lower-priced (but still profitable) Treo 600.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  11. #31  
    Something else to consider...

    RIM may, in fact, be pricing this new device wrong. Look at the featureset. Who will it appeal to? Businesses. OK, so because the price is more attractive than a next-gen Treo, perhaps more businesses will purchase this. But these businesses may very well have been able to justify paying even more for it. Isn't that supposedly where palmOne is seeing a lot of the sales of its Treo 600 coming from now?

    Now at $200, that becomes a more consumer-friendly price-point. But what average consumer would want this RIM? As gfunk said, there's no MP3, there's no camera, there's no huge library of games and productivity apps. A Treo 600 that's been lowered to $200 (after carrier discounts) will still be plenty profitable to palmOne and will be far more attractive to consumers. This could usher in a boom of new Treo 600 users. FWIW, I waited until the Treo 300's price dropped to $250 before I bought mine (shameless plug featuring me in an old article in the WSJ).

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    Yes, there's no use arguing about what the definition of a smartphone is or isn't. It's a highly subjective term.

    IMO, though, I see no real cause for concern here. They may lose some customers to this, but they'll also gain new customers with the next-gen Treo and, IMO, lots more with a lower-priced (but still profitable) Treo 600.

    Scott
    Excellent points, that I've tried to make, but not nearly as well.

    I think if you want to start to discuss the term smartphone you have to do it in as a pyramid with basic phone and PIMs at the bottom (a class one smartphone) and adding features until you get to class n smartphone. What those feature sets that define a class three smartphone could be argued all day, hence you are still stuck in a subjective area. At least at this point you've hopefully categorized devices a little bit more accurately and are not arguing the first cellphone with a PIM is the same as the Treo 600.

    Scott hit the nail on the head again with the fact that by coming out with a newer higher end phone, it enables the Treo 600 to be priced cheaper and opens it to new markets. With two devices at two price points, it would be hard for PalmOne to not expand their marketshare and profitability (if the Treo 600 margins are as good as Scott says or if they will still be good).
  13. #33  
    Good points,

    But in addition to the Treo 600 price point being lowered when the 650 comes out, I still would wager than PalmOne will be releasing an even lower-end Treo running PalmOS, to make a grab at the lower end of the market. They would have to sacrifice margins since smartphones are expensive to make (and sell cheap), but hopefully they'd hook that end of the market on PalmOne/PalmOS and increase market share down there.
    There's no place like 127.0.0.1
  14. #34  
    I'm not sure at what point a "low-end" Treo/Palm device stops appealing to any marketplace.

    I am certainly unconvinced that a cheap Palm/Treo phone with reduced featureset has a market, but it all depends on the mix, which we don;t know, so there can be little true debate on that topic.
  15. #35  
    I do not foresee a P1 smartphone below $200 and this is our guess as to what the price will be for the 600 after the 650/700 is released.
  16. #36  
    PalmOne already has their low end Treo on the market (the 600) and it has done very well. It is possible that until the 600s run out Palm will push both concurrently - The 650 for $450, say, and the newly reduced 600 for the same price, or lower, as the BlackBerry.

    It may be more cost effective to continue to push both the old and new phones simultaneously as Handspring did with the 180 and 270, than to introduce two new phones with different feature sets.
  17. #37  
    True. The 600 selling for $199 or $299 before carrier subsidies/rebates/etc would just fly off the shelves.

    I have many friends who are completely hooked on the 600 but are put off by the price.
    There's no place like 127.0.0.1
  18. #38  
    It has been reported here you can already buy the 600 for $200 on amazon.com.
  19. #39  
    FWIW, rather than keep the Treo 600 as-is alive for a while, what I'd prefer to see palmOne do is offer a version of the ACE with the Treo 600's specs for that $200 price point. Basically, it would have the removable battery and new extra buttons (and backlighting) of the ACE, but with the Treo 600's 160x160 screen, lower res camera (not that I think that the ACE's higher-res camera will really cost much more, but it makes it a selling point), 32MB memory, slower processor, and no Bluetooth. Of course, that would mean that they'd have to offer two versions of the updated GUI (one for 160x160, one for 320x320). The advantages for them is that the two devices could share parts and they'd be able to sell batteries (i.e. - more profit margin) to users of this new and improved lower-end phone.

    The lack of Bluetooth is also important in that it should make the carriers happy because they won't have to worry about lots of people using it in a tethered mode. Whereas, even if Sprint kept the affordable unlimited data pricing with the ACE, there should be a higher profit margin there (as there has been with Sprint's Treo 600 pricing) so as to lessen the blow if a lot of those users eat up gobs of MBs.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  20. Iceman6's Avatar
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    #40  
    No way will P1 continue to offer such a lousy camera after the ACE hits the market. I think the 610 might continue to be available, but not the 600.
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