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  1. #21  
    Yes Marc-- you have to agree. If something looks and works like push mail, then it is push mail. If you go down low enough, a GoodLink like solution is in some senses better "push" than Chatter because:

    1) It does not require the data part of the Treo 600's radio to be active. An SMS is the push notification that pulls the actual message down. This can be done far more efficiently in terms of battery usage than what Chatter does:

    2) Keep a data connection open all the time to the IMAP server, and relies on the IMAP server to push. At the radio's level, this is a "poll" because the data connection maintainance requires the radio to be at a higher power level continuously exchanging control packets with the base station at a much higher frequency than those that are needed to maintain a simple SMS and voice "presence".

    Think about it...
  2. #22  
    One danger of "triggered pull" is it allows programmers to get sloppy. On sprintbc, for instance, it doesn't go online and get the new message; it goes online and synchronizes. So it goes through your whole mailbox every time. Not elegant!
  3. #23  
    My major objection is, perhaps, philosophical. To implement the psuedo-push requires two EXTRA servers (at least), in addition to your IMAP host - the intermediary (for which a service fee is typically required) and the SMS gateway (which used to be very flaky - I assume it's somewhat better).

    BTW, how does the intermediary get your mail from the IMAP host? Does it poll? On what sort of a schedule? (It's hard to believe it's keeping connections open to all those servers...) So how long is it between when a message hits your server to the time, say, MailWave gets it? Just curious.

    Marc
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by treo_fanatic
    Yes Marc-- you have to agree. If something looks and works like push mail, then it is push mail. If you go down low enough, a GoodLink like solution is in some senses better "push" than Chatter because:

    1) It does not require the data part of the Treo 600's radio to be active. An SMS is the push notification that pulls the actual message down. This can be done far more efficiently in terms of battery usage than what Chatter does:

    2) Keep a data connection open all the time to the IMAP server, and relies on the IMAP server to push. At the radio's level, this is a "poll" because the data connection maintainance requires the radio to be at a higher power level continuously exchanging control packets with the base station at a much higher frequency than those that are needed to maintain a simple SMS and voice "presence".

    Think about it...
    I have not used Good but have spent some time on their website and read a number of reviews on the service. Although it is difficult to argue with the Good solution, dollar-for-dollar I suspect you will not find a better push email solution than Chatter. It provides true multi-folder synching in real time, with no server-side software required, no intermediary service provider, no recurring monthly fees, no desktop redirector ... All this with the best support I have ever seen. All in all, its a pretty tough package to beat if you have an IMAP server.
    Last edited by matchtrader; 09/15/2004 at 03:57 PM. Reason: typo
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by matchtrader
    I have not used Good but have spent some time on their website and read a number of reviews on the service. Although it is difficult to argue with the Good solution, dollar-for-dollar I suspect you will not find a better push email solution than Chatter. It provides true multi-folder synching in real time, with no server-side software required, no intermediary service provider, no recurring monthly fees, no desktop redirector ... All this with the best support I have ever seen. All in all, its a pretty tough package to beat if you have an IMAP server.
    The Good service uses a very low latency SMS gateway for each carriers with whom they have deals. Email is literally instantaneous. The GoodLink server gets email "pushed" from Exchange much in the same way that IMAP push works. If you use Good once, you can never use anything else again, not even Chatter. This is not unlike the Blackberry "revolution". Good is very secure and much faster than Chatter.

    Marc, why don't you try GoodLink via a hosted exchange service like mailstreet or lanlogic for a month (it would be free) and see for yourself what the experience is-- you might actually learn a few things.

    Part of the reason for this "Good experience" is that Good does not just sync email. It also syncs other Outlook data -- your calendar, contacts and notes, and once you get hooked to that, there is no looking back. GoodLink also does a very good job of dealing with incoming attachments (even PDF). Essentially, you never ever need to HotSync your device again. "Cradles are for babies." Because of their close relationship with palmOne, Good works around a lot of bugs in the Treo 600 s/w, which other developers really cannot.

    All said, Good is a 100 million dollars of venture money startup, and Marc has done a very good job with the resources available to him, so a comparision is a little meaningless. And Good costs atleast $27 a month, which is more than what Chatter costs. But then again, if Marc ran Chatter like a business, he would have to charge a lot more...
  6. #26  
    treo_fanatic - Actually, I wasn't talking about Goodlink (a product that doesn't interest me in the least); I was referring to MailWave. Goodlink had better be a terrific product, given the insane startup cost and monthly charges; I'm sure I could have done as well or better with a fraction of that money and ANY support from PalmOne!

    BTW, the fact that Chatter (with a $0 budget) can be compared to a $100m product strikes me as a terrific compliment!

    Marc
  7. mh8
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       #27  
    I Noticed a comment about PDF's. Do some of these not open PDF's I assumed that would be a part of any of these better Email programs.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by mblank

    BTW, the fact that Chatter (with a $0 budget) can be compared to a $100m product strikes me as a terrific compliment!

    Marc
    It was intended to be.

    But seriously, you should try goodlink to see how their user experience. It would be useful for all the Chatter users out there, eventually.
  9. #29  
    It's not obvious how to get it without spending a fair amount of money.

    Marc
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    #30  
    Good uses SMS? Why? Presumably Good is syncing very often, since it does email, calendar, TODO's, etc. I'm assuming it doesn't disconnect the data session after each sync, so why not just utilize an IP-based push?
    It seems to me that if you're going to utilize an SMS triggered sync, then it should disconnect from the data session after each sync. Otherwise, you're not saving any battery juice, and you're getting a slower, less reliable trigger method. (not that SMS is bad or anything)
  11. #31  
    Treo_Fanatic -- I do not disagree with your assessment. I have not used Good but do think it looks like a wonderful program. In fact, were it a solution implemented at my workplace, there is little question that I would use it. That said, I do maintain that if you are looking for push email (as opposed to true over-the-air synch of all Outlook applications) Chatter is a fantastic solution, particularly when you consider the price.

  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Minsc
    Good uses SMS? Why? Presumably Good is syncing very often, since it does email, calendar, TODO's, etc. I'm assuming it doesn't disconnect the data session after each sync, so why not just utilize an IP-based push?
    It seems to me that if you're going to utilize an SMS triggered sync, then it should disconnect from the data session after each sync. Otherwise, you're not saving any battery juice, and you're getting a slower, less reliable trigger method. (not that SMS is bad or anything)
    First of all SMS based trigger, is typically as fast or a faster than Data based Trigger, especially on CDMA 1xRTT data based networks, where it takes about 5 seconds to "warm-up" the 1xRTT connection to send or receive anything when in "cold mode". The trick obviously is to use a good SMS gateway into the carrier, and a email-SMS gateway typically does not cut it, in terms of reliability or latency. Good does not use email-over-SMS.

    Next, in terms of battery life, it is a little bit more complex than what you envision. Establishing a new data session takes a lot more juice than maintaining one, so there is little sense in disconnecting immediately. GoodLink does use a "idle-timeout" modified by battery left and signal strength to decide when to tear down its data connection. In a sense this is hybrid SMS and data to get the best experience in terms of latency and battery life.
  13. Minsc's Avatar
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    #33  
    Treo_fanatic, while I'm sure the SMS system Good uses is faster than most, I still think that at best, it's equal in speed to an IP push. But more importantly, if you're already connected to data anyway, why not just push it that way rather than go to the extra step of sending an SMS, which then has to be intercepted/parsed, etc, by the Good client. I'm certialy not knocking Good, as it's pretty apparent that it's the bomb when it comes to wireless email, but I just don't get why they would choose this method of trigger.

    As for the battey life issue, in most enviroments having an "idle" data connection to Vision (arrows are gray, not transfering data) will hardly chew up any juice at all. At my office I've tested this many times, and my Treo will only use about 1 - 2% battery power per hour while just sitting there with an open data connection. (not actually receiving emails, or making/receiving calls, etc) This is virtually the same as having the wireless mode on but the data connection off.
    **HOWEVER**, for whatever reason, in certain environments, the Treo will repeatedly and unnecessarily "turn the arrows green" for as many as 2 - 3 times per minute. This is what chews up battery juice. Unfortunately, my house is a perfect example of this. I can open a connection to Vision and sit there for 5 minutes starting at my Treo and watch the arrows turn green every 20 seconds for absolutely no reason. I've had my Treo lose 20% battery juice in 1 hour just sitting there connected to Vision.
    My personal opinion is that many people who complain about Chatter chewing up their battery are experiencing the same thing I do. I wish I could find a CDMA expert who could help explain why this happens, as it seems to be a network-related thing.
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    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by eldiablo
    verizons wireless sync is true email push for the treo 600. i own both treo and a7510, and for sure, the treo gets emails quicker in about 50% of the cases. appointments can be scehduled and synced with outlook along with all contcts, tasks, and journal entries. pretty slick. On top of that, they seem to have totally fixd the busy data connection issue that caused calls to go to VM. In short, we're there. granted, this requires a perpetual desktop connection to outlook, but if you can solve that, its perfect. better than bb
    El Diablo -

    I just got my VZW Treo 600 and I am having my IT dept install today. It seems that you would recomend the VZW wireless sync over any other email software. I am a newbie, so excuse the ignorance but I would like to emulate the BB enterprise software solution, including filing emails to folders and sub-folders, in addition to being able to access those filed messages. Can VZW wireless sync support the filling/retrieving functionality? If not, should I buy a snappermail or other 3rd party program to get that functionality?

    Thanks
  15. LTE
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    #35  
    Sprint's Business Connection offers true push e-mail, access to files on your PC's hard drive, web access from any web browser, and a great client for the Treo 600 for $5 per month. The vendor behind the solution, SEVEN, has also done a great job of managing battery life; the application senses battery life and reduces synch frequency as battery life gets below 20%. The multi-inbox support is also nice; very easy to toggle between accounts by simply pressing the envelope key. Supports Exchange 5.5, 2000, 2003, Domino 5.0 through 6.5, IMAP, and POP3. To get the next version of the software that includes calendar synch you can join the beta program by sending an e-mail to ooobeta@seven.com. The beta version works on any operators network.
  16. #36  
    If only Good supported Lotus Notes....

    ITA w/eldiablo. I'm still looking for something better than VZW Wireless Sync for my needs Most of these systems do not allow you to accept/decline calendar entries and that is important for me. Also, having a solution that does NOT involve calling my IT staff the only way I can operate wirelessly. My company isn't allowing external IMAP access so I'm stuck with a redirector solution (until they create a new security guideline prohibiting it).
  17. #37  
    ... seems to be a pretty good experience since I've had the device. From what I understand and have read about these other products mentioned in this thread, it seems like a good option. It pushes email, calendar, etc reliably (though without firsthand experience I can't offer a true comparison).
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by mh8
    I Noticed a comment about PDF's. Do some of these not open PDF's I assumed that would be a part of any of these better Email programs.

    Corsoft supports downloading pdf attachments to the Treo:

    http://www.corsoft.com/home.asp
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  19. mh8
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       #39  
    Is corsoft the only one that opens PDF files?? Does anyone have any info/experience on whether Corsoft aileron is any good??
  20. #40  
    Wireless Sync allows moving files into folders (follows the folders you have setup in Outlook, for example), as well as accessing mail in those folders, just as BB and Good do. It also supports accepting meeting invites via the handheld. I think it works quite well.
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